I guess the NDP forget when we had to march for healthcare, and fill CN Center as a demonstration? How could anyone forget the NDP regime, and the great depression they brought upon BC?

and it has been how long since the NDP was in office and what has changed? Health care still isn’t readily available to many, food in hospitals and care facilities is atrocious, mental health service aren’t available in Northern communities, addiction services are few and far between. There are many more examples of Christy Clark and her Liberal government ignoring the taxpayers of the province who want decent health care. I would rather have a government where communities come before corporations.

“We’re hear to embrace all health care stories, including the negative ones,” said NDP leader John Horgan.” Change “including” to “especially”. Horgan was probably wetting himself with glee in hearing all the negative stories.
“And how would the NDP improve things?
“My view is the right decisions will lead to the right outcomes,” said Horgan after the forum had concluded. “Put people at the centre of your decision making process and you’re going to get better results.” Good lord could you get any more vague Horgan. If you’re going to impress, give details. Tell us specifics instead of political bafflegab that your supporters drink up like the proverbial koolaid. Where will the money come from? Where will the front line doctors be hired from? I agree, our health care system is broken but someone like Horgan sure ain’t gonna fix it.

A hospital using a Tim Horton’s as a temporary emergency room, our emergency medical system is in shambles, and then detoe44 has the nerve to say “our health care system is broken but the NDP isn’t going to fix it.” Wow, that accomplishes a lot!

So with a Lib-Con government in power for 14 years we still have a broken health care system, maybe we should be laying the blame where it belongs! Nothing that is broken right now will ever be fix by this current high school Christy Government.

Then detoe44 asks; Where will the money come from? Read the article it’s in there!

“He said cancelling tax cuts for the rich would help too.”

“This past budget saw a tax break for the top two percent of wage earners that came out at almost a quarter of a billion dollars,” said Horgan. “Four years from now that will be a billion. That could have gone to other programs and I don’t think the millionaires that got $17,000 in more money really needed it.”

The question needs to be to this liberal gov of what are they doing with the money from all the huge cuts they have done? It’s not going to our debt because it’s steadily increasing.. Not going to healthcare, education or the environment.. So where are they spending it,,,or maybe crusty and friends have a few off shore accounts ?

Sophics “ctrl v” keys are wore out on the ol keyboard..

Is this the tax break Horgan refers to? “The government won’t continue taxing B.C.’s most wealthy residents at a higher rate, as a temporary two-year tax hike expires this year. The government had raised the personal income tax rate in 2013 for people who earn more than $150,000 annually, saying those who make a little more should pay a little more so the province could balance its books. It’s estimated the tax brought in $227 million in revenue in 2014/15 and will earn another $176 million for government before it expires automatically at the end of the year. ” This is from this years budget Sophic, so it will not kick in until 2016. Horgan could not even get that straight. This is the man you would trust? He spins it to make it sound like the rich are getting a tax break but in reality they are getting a reprieve from a tax increase. I lived through the health care hell that was the NDP policies that caused a massive rally that filled CN Centre. Did you?

It is not about the government, it is about the lack of financial accountability for the Health Authorities, millions has been spent in PG to improve health care here, however, the reality is that code gridlock is worse and the wait lists keep growing. Things are getting worse in PG despite the millions being spent as more money is being spent on health care for services not directed towards clients services, no one can say that services have improved.

The rich are still getting a good deal as far as taxation goes in a lot of areas, the Luxury Tax is a good example; it was originally introduced back in 1997 with a threshold of $32,000 (the purchase price at which the rate of PST began to increase on passenger vehicles). This threshold saw 3 increases between 1997 and 2006, bringing the base amount up to $55,000.

This makes quite a number of BMW model vehicles exempt from the Luxury Tax, good for the rich, not so much for the average Joe or Jane taxpayer! Low that threshold and use the the increase in Luxury Tax volume and amount for health care.

Hey Sage! Looks like your group only pulled in half of what they did in the last story. Things are really looking up for ya!

Wow! Only slightly more than 1/2 of 1/10th of 1% of the population of Prince George managed to drag themselves away from Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy to attend this meeting!

Prince George populations, approximately 70,000 citizens!

10% of 70,000 = 7,000. Nope, not that many attended!

10% of 7,000 = 700. Nope, not that many attended!

10% of 700 = 70. Nope, not that many attended!

57% of 70 = approximately the 40 that attended!

So, only slightly more than 1/2 of 10% of 10% of 10% of the population of Prince George tore themselves away from Pat, Vanna and Alex so that they could attend!

40 people! I’m sure that this city has more Union Reps and shop stewards than that. It looks like even they couldn’t be bothered to show up!

Damn you, Pat, Vanna and Alex!!

Depends on your definition of rich. I don’t consider 150k a year rich. When you consider that some mill workers make over 100k, several of our municipal employees are making 100k+ it isn’t much of a stretch to get to 150k. The really rich will always find a way to avoid taxes. You wrote the increase to the luxury tax started in 1996? Hmmm….Who was in power then?

So how many people drive new BMWs in PG? Not too many. Not sure what price the luxury tax applies to now but with the prices of a decent 4×4 being as high as they are most of those vehicles are hit with a luxury tax. In the north a decent pickup is a necessity not a luxury so this tax ends up hitting more average income northerners than it does people buying fancy sports cars.

As minion2014 said, it’s how the money is spent not how can we get more out of the tax payers. The NDP can keep raising taxes but unless it’s spent efficiently then healthcare won’t improve.

I think we have plenty Money in the Kitty, just don’t spend it on Foreing Wars like Alghanistan , spend it on Health Care for your own People !

URGH!! Mr. Horgan the $17,000 is not your money, it belongs to the person who earned it. We know that if you are obese you are a drain on the healthcare system, tax them instead, they can afford to eat enough to be obese, surely they can afford to pay a bit more tax. Hell call it a Fat Tax if you want, don’t want to pay, lose some weight, save the system a truck load of money. Stop penalizing people for working hard and EARNING a great living.

Outwest:”I think we have plenty Money in the Kitty, just don’t spend it on Foreing Wars like Alghanistan , spend it on Health Care for your own People !”

Right on! New war targets (deep money pits) have been found in Syria and Irag (again)! There never seems to be any problem with finding vast amounts of ready cash for that kind of stuff! Sad endless repeating of historical lessons NOT learned…

“My view is the right decisions will lead to the right outcomes,” said Horgan after the forum had concluded. “

What is that supposed to mean??? It is obvious that wrong decisions usually lead to wrong outcomes! So what is the significant aspect of Horgan’s statement?

Horgan: “Put people at the centre of your decision making process and you’re going to get better results.”

You mean we have no “people” making decisions??? Are decisions being made by computers? That is a good one! Why are CEOs in healthcare being paid half a million dollars annually when entities other than people are making decisions?

OMG, no wonder the others won the last election!

Decisions. Mr. Horgan has decided to be obese along with 6 million other Canadians. His and their decision will eat up healthcare resources. People decide to smoke, to drink to excess, their decision will eat up healthcare resources. People decide to drink and drive, text and drive, drive like idiots, their decision eats up healthcare resources. So the solution is to increase corporate taxes. Well, on the advice of my doctor I made the decision to make dramatic lifestyle changes and I consume very few healthcare resources. I now invest in corporations so that I can retire with some

…comfort. But Horgan and gang want to tax them more, which means the dividend they pay me and pension plans will drop, impacting our retirement. How about those of you who are able make some decisions to improve your personal health, rather than using the social safety net as a trampoline, take personal responsibility for your health so that if you do need hospital care, you’re not on a first name basis with the staff.

ski51, I agree!

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we DO NOT have a “healthcare” crisis in our country, what we have is “health” crisis!

As a society, we are fat, we are lazy, we eat too much, smoke too much, drink too much, get absolutely no exercise and blame others for our problems. We expect government to wipe our butts for us, from cradle to grave.

We complain about the state of our healthcare system as we wait our turn for services, all the while surrounded by others just like us, who smoke too much, eat too much, get no exercise, etc!!

I believe that it was Anne McLellan, former Federal Minister of Health and MP for the Edmonton Northwest riding of the former Liberal Government who stood up on her soapbox many years ago and told us that we need to take better care of ourselves! She told us that we need to put fewer demands on healthcare dollars so that the dollars are available for people that truly need them!

We spend more on healthcare than we have ever spent on healthcare! There isn’t enough money and there never will be enough money to “fix” our broken healthcare system, because it isn’t broken! WE ARE!!

But don’t despair, John Horgan and the NDP are going to fix things!

Yeah, right!

Well said! Don`t forget the NDP had a whole decade to demonstrate their superior wisdom and insights when it came to decision making! We saw the outcomes and they were less than mediocre! The present healthcare system is far from perfect but there have been many worthwhile improvements! Quite frankly I have a hard time believing that the NDP would have the nerve to come up here and raise the subject of healthcare – with the poor track record it has made for itself in the past!

There are many developed nations with Universal Healthcare systems that function much better than ours. It seems we are always given the option of the Canadian way( top heavy with management and beurocracy ) or the American model ( user pay with the highest costs in the world). Why can’t we change the system and learn from the countries that do a much better job than us? Our options, as presented, are status quo, or the broken but highly profitable system of our neighbours to the south.

who wants to go to something that lasts only 1 hour…. a total waste of time and energy for everyone…

There are a lot of factors not mentioned by other posters that impact access to health care and whether people eat right and stay healthy. Access to all the options for diagnostic testing is, we know who live here, not nearly as timely or available as those who live close to big cities. We have to travel south to get some types of testing and care. That costs money and if you have a decreased income, maybe you choose not to get that testing and care. When the Liberals first came into power in BC, one of the first things they did was close a number of acute care beds and then say they would increase the number of long term care beds. They did create some, but not the number they promised or were needed. Remember the nurse who is quoted in this article? Well, having visited the hospital, I saw a whole ward that was populated by people who should have been in long term care, not acute care. It costs way more to be in an acute care bed than in a long term bed and is not the appropriate place for those people. So when are the Liberals going to keep the promise of enough beds?

The idea of a fat tax has been mentioned before. However, there are factors which keep people from being able to choose healthier food options. Lack of modelling from parents or what part of town people live in. For example, grocery stores are not located close to poorer areas. So, if someone is too poor to own a vehicle or even have much money for transit fare, then they will choose to buy from the closest supplier which often tends to be the convenience stores. I don’t see as many healthy choices in the convenience stores and what makes it worse, is the prices in those stores for what health choices they do carry is higher.

Talking to the NDP MLAs who came here is a good start to getting better access. The right people, if we elect them.

You make good points HAS and that is why I qualified my point with ” those of you who are able” which I am sure Mr. Horgan has access to good food and exercise along with a good deal of the 25% of Canadian adults who are obese, never mind those who are just overweight. The thing is, if we took care of ourselves, the system would have the resources to do what you mention. I personally know doctors including specialists, and the problem is only partly money, the other part is there are more people demanding services than can be accommodated. A specialist takes years to train. It takes about a year of dieting and exercise to get to a healthy body weight, and it takes just a simple decision not to drive stupidly.

While I understand that a healthy lifestyle requires a person to be educated on proper diet, nutrition & exercise, with the onset of the internet & everyone & their dog having access to information literally at their fingertips I am more inclined to agree with Hart Guys assessment. As a society we are lazy, we take the path of least resistance. In a place like PG where along with an abundance of exercise facilities we are blessed with nature right in our back yards. We have 4 multi use biking/hiking/ski/snowshoe areas in city limits, for the more adventurous there is…well, pick a direction & have at it.
As far as nutrition & healthy eating? There are more than enough resources, I believe Northern Health will offer help as well. I have always viewed our health care as insurance, there if I really was in need but as far as being healthy, that is totally my responsibility to look after myself & hope I am fortunate to avoid major complications.

Lots of us drive new BMWs…. I have noticed a sustantial increase in the last few years of BMWs in town….. What this has to do with our horrible health care not to sure…( I know not all are not purchased new..but used they are still costly..but you get what you pay for.. and its well worth it compared to most on the road today..)

Northern health is the biggest cost to our health care here in PG .just a huge managers hangout.. not much done at all but make excellent money.

With all the waiting lists going why do our operating rooms sit empty so much ? must be the NDP … because we know the liberals are looking out for us ;)

People with chronic health conditions make up a good part of health care demands, it would be nice if there was enough money to fund better prevention programs as an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

This applies to many illnesses, such as diabetes, which can be avoided through change in diet and proper exercise, however, like crime, righties are not interested in preventing anything, only to address it after or while it is occurring.

All you have to do is stop eating anything with added sugar . Go to wiki Sugar and read the dangers of sugar . It’s poison .

Sophic, I think I just saw a pig fly by my window – we agreed on something!!!

PVal – there are 5 operating rooms going flat out during the week, and most urgent surgery’s are being done early evening. At least that’s what my surgeon friend tells me.

That said, it has been so long since the NDP held power, I don’t think you can judge the current party by the performance of the past. If Christy Clark had made the same comment, I would have made the same comment. The most significant change that can help the system is us.

Sophic is correct. And I would go further -mandatory P.E. every day, for all grades. And mandatory classes on cooking and nutrition. We’ve got a shrinking young workforce, we need them happy and healthy.

BTW – the most effective non drug based treatment for depression – is exercise.

Sophic, As far as our health is concerned, I don’t believe you can nail it all on one political bent. We are all complicit, we stood by & allowed multinationals hijack our food distribution system. We allowed them to make processed foods the norm not the exception. Like Ataloss posted, added sugar in multiple forms is poisoning us & we mostly stood by & watched it happen. However we do have more access to information now, we can make healthier, better choices. It is up to us, all of us.

To Porter and his anti obesity diatribe: people get obese for a multitude of reasons. As an example, people with diet controlled type II diabetes usually have to eat something every two hours as part of a medically directed diet. That often causes them to increase weight, get obese, in other words. If they do not eat in an attempt to keep to the weight you think they should be, they may lower their blood sugar enough to be hospitalized as an emergency. That is their medical choice – be obese or be hospitalized.

Few people are obese because they want to be. There are many factors from genetics to psychology and each obese person has different underlying reasons. Lumping all of them together is plain nonsense.

Still, you have the right to attack fat people, even though they don’t deserve it and even though you are obviously quite ignorant on the subject. Not knowing what they are talking about never stopped the anti-this, anti-that, anti-the others brigade on this site.

Like I said, some of us expect the Government to wipe our butts from cradle to grave!

Sure, let’s spend more to provide more education and to fund better prevention programs. After all, we need to educate people so that they make better diet and exercise choices, right?

Some of our most educated and highest public sector employees work in the healthcare field! Have you been to our hospital lately? Sadly, I am quite shocked at the number of health care workers that could be considered overweight and/or obese! You’ll see some of them outside, having a smoke!

If only we had yet another Government program, all of these people would be fit as a fiddle!

So much for personal responsibility! It’s not their fault, it’s the Government’s fault!

Ammonra, you are correct that some people are obese because of factors beyond their control. But in my opinion, far more are obese because of their choice of diet and lifestyle.

Have you ever noticed what’s in the shopping carts of others around you in the grocery store? Sometimes you would be hard pressed to see any actual food. What you are more likely to see is shopping carts full of highly processed, over salted and sugar loaded crap!

Hey, how did those Doritos get in my cart? I sure as heck didn’t put them in there next to the frozen pizzas and ice cream!

ammonra – 1 and 4 are obese. Surely they can’t all have issues that prevent them from going for a walk or choosing fruit over fries. I agree those people do exist, and fact is, those of us who can do something about it are using up resources that those who can’t do anything about it need. I was fat people, I know how hard it can be to get healthy, but it can be done, and those of us who can, need to do it. The healthcare budget no matter who is in power will eventually sink us. It is unsustainable.

Ammonra, next to genetics, lifestyle choice is the leading cause of type 2 diabetes. I don’t think anyone here is picking on fat people. Obesity is becoming a major problem in our society & we have to get a handle on it, as Ski51 pointed if we do not it will drain our health care system. Sometimes we have to take off the kid gloves & deal with problems head on.

As an ex obese person I didn’t know what was causing it . It wasn’t lack of exercise . It was the added sugar in my diet . I can thank the CBC W5 episode on sugar . They showed me where I was going wrong . A year and a half latter I had lost a third of my weight and am now the same weight I was in my early twentys . All I changed was , no more added sugar , only beers brew by the German purity law of 1516 . No exercise (that’s a myth ) . No more back problems . No high blood pressure and a food bill that dropped through the floor . It’s actually cheaper to eat right than it is to eat wrong .

Good post Ataloss, I agree, exercise alone will not cause weight loss. A person can exercise until the cows come home & not lose much weight at all. It is mostly diet. While never obese, I was packing on the pounds a few years ago. I’ve never really had much liking for pop & sugary foods, alcohol has never been an issue (gotta love the new wave of craft brewing though) & I’ve always been really active. My Achilles heel was fast food. Stopped the fast food & the weight dropped & like Ataloss wrote, so did my monthly food budget. A lot of times it really is choice, not always but a lot.

The NDP did a great job while in office. Even though the Japanese lumber market fell, they opened up the Chinese market and left the province with a surplus. We haven’t seen one since the BC Liberals came to power. Why did the NDP get slagged by the MSM? The MSM is friends with the BC Liberals and they slagged the BC NDP. The BC LIberals have lied to us continuously, note the BC Rail deal if you need an example. Many of these health authorities have too many administrators who are friends of the BC Liberals.

What’s MSM? And Mike Harcourt did a great job and if Clark and gang hadn’t of knifed him the NDP had a chance of keeping power. Clark (Glen), has always been in it for Glen, and Moe Sihota was a real piece of work. The Liberals don’t keep winning, the NDP keep losing through compromise candidates vs a candidate that can win.

MSM = mainstream media.

Hart Guy states; ” I am quite shocked at the number of health care workers that could be considered overweight and/or obese! You’ll see some of them outside, having a smoke!”

Yup our health care crisis is caused by overweight health care workers, you always find a way to blame the workers, you are a real piece of work Hart Guy!

@ski51 not to be condescending . The next time you don’t know what an acronym means or anything else for that matter . Put in the search box at the top of your page and write for example … Define msm . Your computer will do the rest . It will save you and us time and perhaps a red face on you . No one can know everything . I use this method daily . I always search before I post . I hope this helps . I checked msm to make sure I was right that it would pop up . Otherwise I enjoy your posts . Ttfn . You could try that one as well . Have a good one .

astro;”Even though the Japanese lumber market fell, they (NDP) opened up the Chinese market and left the province with a surplus.”

Liberal Pat Bell made very many trips to China and eventually got the Chinese intested in buying B.C. lumber. As for the two NDP fudgit budgets – they had no surpluses as the one billion for one year received from California for power sales had to be returned due to lawsuits. The next year’s anticipated and predicted one billion from power sales never happened so the second surplus also became a deficit. Utopia did not co-operate!

Sophie, you commented that it would be nice if there was enough money to fund better prevention programs as an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

My point about unfit healthcare providers is that these are some of our best trained public sector workers, people who for the most part have obtained post-secondary educations. Presumably, these are people with above average intellect.

Obviously, being in the healthcare field, they see the effects of not eating properly, smoking, alcohol abuse and other healthcare issues. You would think that these people, if any, should be making good healthcare decisions for themselves. Any yet, many don’t!

So, if these trained and educated healthcare workers can’t be bothered to make good decisions regarding their own health, why would you think that a government prevention program would have any effect on the rest of the presumably less educated public?