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October 28, 2017 3:06 am

First in the polls, last out of the gate

Thursday, August 6, 2015 @ 3:45 AM
By Bill Phillips
There is no doubt that Bob Zimmer and Todd Doherty have the upper hand in the Prince George election campaigns.

Zimmer, in Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies, is the incumbent and the riding has been staunchly Conservative for decades. In his first term as MP, Zimmer kept his nose clean and was a loyal Conservative MP, so unseating him will be a gargantuan task.
In Cariboo-Prince George, where we’ve had the audacity to elect a New Democrat a couple of eons ago (before the riding included the Cariboo), the possibility of an upset, although perhaps a slim one, does exist. Conservative candidate Doherty was obviously ready for the writ to be dropped on Sunday. I don’t think Conservative leader Stephen Harper’s pronouncement had finished ringing off the walls at Rideau Hall when Doherty was out putting up election signs.
And that’s one of the reasons Doherty has the upper hand – preparedness.
Doherty won the party nomination last fall and has been campaigning ever since. He was obviously prepared for the writ to be dropped and acted.
Even though the election date of October 19 has never been a secret, the NDP and the Liberals are still scrambling in the two Prince George ridings.
The Liberals, however, seem to have sorted things out with Matt Shaw deciding to run in the Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies riding against Zimmer. Shaw was originally going to run in Cariboo-Prince George against Tracy Calogerhos. By moving over to the northern riding, the Liberals don’t have to hold a nomination meeting in either riding and, as soon as the two are vetted by the party, they can begin campaigning.
The NDP nomination in Cariboo-Prince George has been nothing short of puzzling. The party has had three candidates seeking the nomination in place since May … Trent Derrick, Debora Munoz, and Laura Zimmerman.
The party (head office, not the locals) has delayed the nomination meeting several times. It was originally going to be held in late June. That got pushed to early July, then late July, and now August 29.
Why the delay? No one seems to know, other than it’s the folks in Ottawa who decide these things.
That leaves some (mostly me) wondering if the party, thinking perhaps the riding is winnable, has been looking for a ‘star’ candidate to run in Cariboo-Prince George, or maybe they’re just hoping a star candidate will come forward.
To me, there is no other reason for the party to delay candidate selection for two months after three candidates were already chomping at the bit.
In addition, the early election call was no secret … most of the country, except the NDP apparently, suspected weeks before that Harper was likely going to make a trip to Rideau Hall August 2. So why delay candidate selection until a month into the campaign?
Everyone is already six months behind Doherty in terms of campaign time and the NDP are poised to lose another month. Not a good move, especially if they think the riding is winnable.
Bill Phillips is a freelance columnist living in Prince George. He was the winner of the 2009 Best Editorial award at the British Columbia/Yukon Community Newspaper Association’s Ma Murray awards, in 2007 he won the association’s Best Columnist award. In 2004, he placed third in the Canadian Community Newspaper best columnist category and, in 2003, placed second. He can be reached at billphillips1@mac.com


Waiting for a **star candidate** to come forward?? Wonder who that might be.??

So just sitting in virtual obscurity (like Zimmer, Harris, and the other one who also sat for an eternity and whose name I cannot even recall) and adhering to what the party dictates assures Conservative incumbents re-election? Nice going, people, just don’t complain if all the others keep getting the mine and while we get the shaft!

Jay Hill! 17 years in Ottawa. I wrote two letters to him (Fort St. John office, the old fashioned snail mail kind) asking polite questions about two important matters but never even got a reply…finally ended up talking to D. Harris staff, but that did not pan out either.

Those out and running now.. do have a reason to try to get exposure… they have Harper on their backs… try shaking that off… They need all the help they can get

Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2015 @ 6:42 AM by Palopu

Waiting for a **star candidate** to come forward?? Wonder who that might be.??


Last election the NDP had a university student (who has now moved on to a cushy government job) and Lois Boone. I don’t think there is a star candidate for the NDP. Their plan to reinstate the gun registry will cost them dearly in rural ridings.

Maybe the Liberals will parachute Eve Adams in now that she’s looking for a place to run.

The new winery is probably keeping the Greens away…

They can’t even organize there own party [NDP] how they going to run Canada it’s not as if they didn’t know a election was coming.

Wow, Bill managed to get through an entire Ed without sounding completely bias…

It looks like either they aren’t happy with the area candidates or maybe they just don’t give a damn about a riding so far from Ottawa. I guess this saves them money if they don’t start campaigning for another month.

These two PC ridings are considered to be some of the safest ridings in Canada. There is a problem with that, of course. They can put in any candidate and be certain that she or he will be elected. After having won a 100% safe riding they can – if the choose to – sit back and do very little. That is exactly what happened for many years! Voters may decide again if that is good enough for us here!

I find it strange that nobody is mentioning the leaders’ debate tonight. It will be available on youtube also. McLean’s is sponsoring it.


All four are supposed to be there.

Not sure how up to date the Wikipedia page is. 7 out of 42 seats in BC show no candidate, including the 2 in PG. Alberta is even worse – 27 vacant of 34 seats. 8 of14 in Sakatchewan vacant. 6 of 14 in Manitoba. 59 of 12 in Ontario. 10 of 78 in Quebec. 4 0f 10 in NB. 5 of 11 in NS. None of 4 in PEI. 5 of 7 in NL

Seems we have a bottleneck in the system. The USA seems to have figured it out. They have party registrations and the local organization is there whether it is school board, municipality, county, state or federal – senate or house of representatives. Candidate recruitment, selection, election preparedness, and campaigning is an on-going process.

In Canada we seem to have to wake people up out of a deep sleep and there is no consistency. The wrong placement of some of Doherty’s signs is a good indicator of that lack of “corporate memory” being retained and passed on to the next group. Some ridings and some parties are better at it than others.

On the other hand this might actually be a tactic. They may not care about Harper’s timetable. If they do have limited funds, the best way to spend those is likely near the end. Let Harper fight a national battle. Local meeting and debates cannot happen when there is nobody to debate. Let the Conservatives make mistakes and show their hands, and then have something to respond to.

Thet will just give you dirt adds that most will shun its the only way the PC”s know how to run an election campaign.
Here is a gem that I picked up and it says a lot for the Tories to consider;

“Support for the Conservatives is highest among the least educated (34%) and lowest among the most educated (19%), while the opposite applies with the NDP (35% and 45%, respectively),” Forum Research stated on its website.

There goes my bad spelling again should be “They”. Its my spell checkers fault.

“Its my spell checkers fault.” The poor guy gets blamed too much.

Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2015 @ 11:09 AM by Retired 02

Thet will just give you dirt adds that most will shun its the only way the PC”s know how to run an election campaign.
Here is a gem that I picked up and it says a lot for the Tories to consider;

“Support for the Conservatives is highest among the least educated (34%)…”



I checked the url but they don’t give us a time when the debate will take place.

Of 338 seats available

Liberals have 294 nominated candidates, 197 males, 97 females, 60 lawyers (most common occupation)

Conservatives 255 – 205 males, 49 females, 38 business

NDP 231 – 135 males; 95 females; 36 teachers

Green 140 – 98 males; 42 females; 9 teachers.

These are from Wikipedia which have all been updated in the last 2 days.

To me those numbers give some insight right there.

5 pm PDT. Do not know if everyone will broadcast it live or not. At this time in the game, some may not. City TV (CKPG in PG) will carry it. Also CBC.

“Support for the Conservatives is highest among the least educated (34%) and lowest among the most educated (19%), while the opposite applies with the NDP (35% and 45%, respectively),” Forum Research stated on its website.

I get weary of this “least educated” insinuation – too stupid to know how to vote.

Least educated – mill workers, truck drivers, farmers, factory workers, sanitation workers, snowplow drivers, SOLDIERS.

Most educated – Teachers, university professors, doctors, lawyers, accountants, JOURNALISTS.

Which group would we really miss if they disappeared over night. The guy that grows food, or the guy that teachers English Literature.

In PG, on average the most financially successful people – have grade 12 or less. Look at the big names in this town, and few of them have graduate degrees. They have people with graduate degrees working for them, but they themselves seemed to be smart enough to start and run a successful business without the benefit of 4 more years of education.

Life learning and school learning are not the same.

And education is often a product of advantage, so you might as well say poor people are too stupid to get an education.

And I benefited from advanced education, but my hard working parents didn’t, yet managed to retire quite comfortably in their blue collar sort of way.

I get weary of this “least educated” insinuation – too stupid to know how to vote.

Its not about being stupid its about being smarter.

Least educated – mill workers, truck drivers, farmers, factory workers, sanitation workers, snowplows drivers, SOLDIERS.

So tell me why the PC’s are elected election after election. I think that the middle class is just fed up with politics as they really are intelligent enough to see the whole picture that its not that attractive.

Thank you Ski51, this preoccupation with the term “educated” that some posters here hold to really is getting old. Some of the most intelligent people I know are farmers, not much more than standard grade 12 education, not only the salt of the earth but critical thinking skills that are off the charts. The fact that they hold conservative values is a product of their upbringing, religious beliefs & social circles. In the same vein, I know some highly “educated” people that, while very good at their chosen field, have zero social skills, can’t extrapolate to save their lives (& in one case their career) & have difficulty performing what some would consider simple tasks. While I can appreciate the time & effort that goes into obtaining a higher degree of school learning it is not the end all & be all of a persons character.

The Liberals ran a highly educated person in the last election. Imported him from Harvard where he was teaching. His name was Ignatieff, and with all his high priced education he turned out to be a dud. After the election he returned to Harvard with his tail between his legs.

The NDP in inundated with teachers which would explain why their educated numbers are high.

Remember if you go to University, you can get out of working for another five years. Perhaps that is one of the main attractions for Universities.

Actually Retired 02 – they haven’t been getting elected election after election. The political left is incapable of cooperating to oust them. He has won every election without a popular majority because of vote splitting. So I guess in a way, the “uneducated” on the right are smart enough to quit vote splitting and the “educated” left can’t seem to grasp the concept that as long as they offer 3 choices, Harper can win theoretically with 25.1% of the vote.

So uneducated people seem to know how to cooperate which is ironic in that the left always loves the word – consensus.

Strange how that did not exactly work out in Alberta recently isn’t it ski51.

There no observable pattern when it comes to elections. Your theory is hogwash when you apply it to reality. It is far too dogmatic.

Palopu, ski51, and detoe44 need to take a long canoe trip down a river togeather Deliverance style, so they can get comfortable with the “uneducated” locals, don’t forget to squeal like pigs. Who needs an education right?

We need more world leaders like Germany’s Angela Merkle, she is combating right wing conservative ignorance by proving “free” post secondary education to anyone that wants it. Best way to defeat right wing conservatives is through education. Hmmm… maybe that’s why they hate teachers so much?

providing “free” post secondary education…

Seems that Bill Phillips is picking on the Cariboo Prince George New Democrats in this article. While the Liberals have a candidate who wants to run, she still has not been approved by the party. In a previous article, Bill mentioned a potential independent who might run in the riding but no word in this article about that person. We still have not heard a name from the Green Party but they do say they are thinking of running a candidate but Bill does not mention that party. How about the Christian Heritage party? They often run candidates in northern BC. Perhaps it is as gopg2015 so aptly said, it gives the conservatives opportunity to spend lots of money and hot air. It may be a good tactic on the part of the NDP to first see the conservatives commit some more bloopers and give out empty promises, then challenge them. Did anyone see the Netflix tax statement from Stephen Harper this morning? Scratch my head.

Once again Sophic provides a glimpse into what kind of person she really is. For an “educated” person you are quite obviously having difficulty understanding the gist of what I wrote, thank you for proving my point…yet again. I never wrote that a so called “higher” education was not valuable, I wrote that it is not always indicative of intelligence or good character…as your last post so eloquently proved. I would rather be stuck in a boat with the people you scorn as uneducated than with a person like you who wouldn’t know which end of the paddle to use.

Ummm… you might want to watch the movie before you return comment detoe44, your ignorance is showing… “I would rather be stuck in a boat with the people you scorn as uneducated than with a person like you who wouldn’t know which end of the paddle to use.”

Believe me you wouldn’t want be stuck in a boat with the people I scorn as uneducated in that movie, because we are talking very backwoods in a uncomfortable, uneducated kind of way. Might want to google “Deliverance” so you can get a bit more comfortable with the uneducated people I scorn.

“The NDP in inundated with teachers which would explain why their educated numbers are high.”

Palopu, the numbers that are given on Wikipedia are those associated with the most common OCCUPATION not the numbers who have formal post-secondary education.

We have no clue how many in any of the parties actually have post-secondary education. To assume that those who list their OCCUPATION as business do not have degrees is totally groundless. There are no facts given in the data I took from Wikipedia which would indicate that they do or do not have an education. There are a hell of a lot of OCCUPATIONS which require some formal post-secondary education. For the Conservatives the majority (38) write down business as their OCCUPATION. That leaves 217 who we know nothing about. For all we know, they have 37 teachers as the second grouping.

While most “teachers” have some sort of education beyond HS, they do not necessarily have degrees depending on how old they are and what subject they teach and where they teach them. I would not be surprised if the political parties lump those who teach elementary, secondary, College and University classes/courses together under the heading “teachers”. Then we have teaching assistants who also may not have a degree. And certainly those who teach trades and other vocational courses at College do not require a degree to teach. Take dental assistants as an example; a one year program. Taught primarily by other dental assistants who may or may not have a degree. Some will surveys include those who teach at colleges and universities in the teaching profession. Quite rightly so.

Final analysis, we are looking at OCCUPATIONS, yet everyone seems to be immediately thinking education. Those who have any knowledge at all about education is that it provides tools for those who cannot do it on their own. It provides tools for discovery of what they might want to be. This is no longer the 1950s. Today most businesses will not take on an apprentice without some sort of direction they want to go in and some level of education which will allow them to be productive relatively quickly. Food service, retail sales, cleaning staff, etc. etc. come to mind immediately. Some will actually start their own restaurant, cleaning service, home renovation service, etc. They can then put down BUSINESS if they run for election. Whether that business is failing or is the 4th failed business they are operating, who knows. Whether it employs 1, 2, 10, 500 people, we do not know.

Look at the party that has the least number of females. With the number of heads of state and heads of provinces and states in other federated countries and Mayors who are female, it seems quite low.

Wow Sophic. I already go out in the bush mountain biking with truckers, mill workers, city workers, and not one has tried to rape me yet. Maybe I need to improve my appearance. If you are the face of socialism, you should consider getting some work done. Socialists traditionally have been the people who stuck up for the working guy, not broad brushed him as some kind of troglodyte. The working guy/gal is the one in our economy that creates real goods and services – without them, we don’t eat. Teachers while valuable, don’t produce a single board of lumber, a loaf of bread, or dig a pound of coal out of the ground. And long before the professional education system lots of kids were taught by their parents and still managed to run the family farm, sawmill, etc.

I get it that you hate Harper with an almost pathological hatred, but to disrespect the “hard working Canadians” the way you do is rude at the least.

I’m pretty sure if you had a face to face with Jack Layton, and spouted off your hillbilly slander of the working people, if you were a guy, you’d probably get a broken nose, and if you’re a woman, he’d probably shake his head and turn his back to you. NDP was the working person’s party, until the teacher’s got a hold of it.

HAS asks, “Did anyone see the Netflix tax statement from Stephen Harper this morning? Scratch my head.”

He uses the old tactic of raising a straw man, then knocks it down, but in the process plants a lie as a seed. The only party to raise the spectre of taxing Netflix is the Conservative party. Neither the NDP nor the Liberals have any intention of doing so.

Sophic, “Palopu, ski51, and detoe44 need to take a long canoe trip down a river togeather Deliverance style, so they can get comfortable with the “uneducated” locals,”. I didn’t take that as a reference of the locals of Georgia, I took it as a reference to the people in this area that you consider uneducated & quite obviously look down your nose at. Education is a very loose term & can come from multiple sources,not just Google & Wikipedia. Yet again you prove my original point. Don’t you get tired of this?

Conservatives just do not value education as much as the rest of us, high school Christy is a good example of this. They pick someone with a high school diploma to be their leader provincially, because it is a lack of education that they depend on and desire. It is far easier to manipulate the masses if the are uneducated and unquestioning, Angela Merkle recognizes this and is taking steps to disinfect her country of right wing extremists through the offer of free education.

Nothing works better to defeat right wing conservatism than education, it is the cure that we need, and the world needs. We have a long way to go, however more and more people are starting to realize, there is reason and purpose behind the right wing conservative dismantling of our public education system. Why? Because educated and questioning people are a threat to them and their existence.

Mighty Righties keep saying everyone knew an election was coming. True, but nobody but Stevie boy knew he would call it so early as to have one of the longest campaigns in history. If a normal length campaign had been chosen I suspect all the candidates would have been in place. On the other hand, that would have made the campaign fair, so Stevie had not choice but to call an election at a time which would give him an unfair advantage. That’s just who he is, folks. Live with it!

“So tell me why the PC’s are elected election after election”

They are not. They won a majority in the last election. That was the first time in decades.

Before that they need the support of at least one party or individuals voting independent of their party, to give them the majority for a bill put before the House.

What people are forgetting is that the party that won the majority was a party which was not given full freedom to rule the House.

We now have a situation where that party had a majority and people will form their opinion of how they have done over 4 years without being somewhat restrained in their actions.

What remains in the Conservatives favour is that in a three party election, the other three are to the left of the Conservatives. There are no parties to the right. An NDP-Liberal coalition going into the election would kill Harpers Conservatives. A Conservative Coalition with either the NDP or the Liberals will guarantee the Harper Government will remain in power. A Conservative-Liberal coalition is the most common one in the EU countries. I think the Canadian political history will not even allow either party to think that way.

The USA is divided 50-50 between Republicans and Democrats. Our division is edging close to 33-33-33. It depends on the riding politics and winners. I am waiting to see the first analysis of which way ridings are predicted to go. That is where the battle is fought. We do not elect a leader for this country. We cannot have a conservative government without Harper as leader. If the Conservatives lose, he will be the reason.

Sophic, you just don’t get it. All you can do is attack & insult. Is this the product of “higher” education? You mock Christy Clark for only having a high school education, yet she has accomplished more with that than most university graduates. People who hold conservative values hold education just as highly as others but education can come from a variety of sources. You really do need to get out & see the world.

Sophic I feel for you having to share the world with the dirty uneducated. You are a piece of work. Heh Christy got elected not some super educated, that must hurt.

Ski51, side note, check out the new trail at Otway called Treehugger.

Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2015 @ 1:45 PM by Sophic Sage
“Conservatives just do not value education as much as the rest of us, high school Christy is a good example of this”

Christy Clark is a Liberal, Dan Brooks is your BC Conservative leader.

detoe44 states; “You mock Christy Clark for only having a high school education, yet she has accomplished more with that than most university graduates.”

High school Christy has accomplished nothing, however I must admit her Corporate CEO puppeteers have accomplished much of their profit driven agenda through her. I can state quite correctly that corporations and business run our governments, here in Canada, not like in Europe where educated leaders like Angela Merkle run their governments.

More and more people are starting to realize that governments need to be run by people and not corporations and business, this is a primary driving factor for the NDP’s rise in popularity, “people” are starting to take their governments back, it has happened in Alberta, and it will happen in Canada, and that is what terrifies right wing ideologues the most.

Sophic, “High school Christy has accomplished nothing”. So in the same vein none of our party leaders have accomplished anything because really they are just the face of whatever interest driven idealist conglomerates are trying to promote. Mulcair, nothing but the face of organized labour, Trudeau, nothing but the face of lawyers & law societies. May, nothing but the face of tree hugging nature lovers & extreme environmental radicals. Pretty small world view, have you ever been to Germany? You may be in for a bit of a shock.

Being Sophic means never having to say sorry, or I was wrong. I have noticed most posters if they get it wrong, or say something stupid, they’ll clarify or even apologize, but not Sophic. Literally smears everyone in PG with a grade 12 or less education, and just trucks on like he/she wrote nothing wrong.

As for Alberta – yes, the right wing split the vote this time around. Just like the PC’s and Reform use to. And like the PC’s and reform, the right wing in Alberta will merge into one party, and the NDP will be a one term wonder – UNLESS – they take this opportunity to govern for all Albertans and actually buck the trend – which frankly, would be a welcome change.

But in the Federal system,the Conservatives will end up with a dynasty because their foe can’t cooperate. Frankly, I see a Conservative Minority government with Liberal support – because even Trudeau knows the NDP vision is a bit pie in the sky and they’re a Quebec party with the high level of morals that Quebec politicians are known for, which can’t be good for the rest of us.

Anyone else notice how detoe44 and ski51 avoid the main point in my last comment which was; the primary driving factor behind the NDP’s rise in popularity, is that “people” are starting to take their governments back, it has happened in Alberta, and it will happen in Canada, and that is what terrifies right wing ideologues the most.

Perhaps someone else can come up with a better explanation for the nation wide increase in the NDP’s popularity? People want change, and it’s going to happen, but hey go ahead and keep shooting the messenger if you don’t like the message.

Posted on Thursday, August 6, 2015 @ 3:05 PM by Sophic Sage

Anyone else notice how detoe44 and ski51 avoid the main point in my last comment which was; the primary driving factor behind the NDP’s rise in popularity, is that “people” are starting to take their governments back, it has happened in Alberta, and it will happen in Canada, and that is what terrifies right wing ideologues the most.


Taking their government back? Nah. It has more to do with the level of entitlement that people have nowadays. They all expect someone else to look after them.

The way the occupational data is presented on Wikipedia gives false impressions. The top listed occupations listed for the four parties were Business, Lawyer and Teacher. Taking the fact that those were the most common listed occupations, it makes a much fairer review of the characteristic of the candidates running for each party by looking at the 3 most popular occupations across the 4 parties.

I did the exercise for BC only. The following is percentage the total candidates that fit into each of the three occupation categories. The numbers are shown in order of highest to lowest for each category.

Business/consultant – CONS = 22.9%; LIB = 22.2%; GREEN = 21.7%; NDP = 18.8%
Lawyer/judge/paralegal – NDP = 21.2%; LIB = 16.7%; CONS = 14.3%; GREEN = 8.7%
Instructor/Teacher/Professor – NDP = 21.2%; CONS = 14.3%; LIB = 5.6%; GREEN = 0%

The picture changes when looked at it this more representative way.

All parties have very similar numbers who we can assume are “business owners”. That only seems logical because most can actually carry on business to some degree as an MP, especially if they are partners in a business as long as there is no conflict with their MP position.

The NDP have more lawyers than the Liberals have and the Liberals and Greens have a very low number of educators compared to the NDP and Conservatives.

Sophic, you are not the messenger of change. Your comment style & juvenile responses, as Ski51 pointed out, would get you shunned in any national NDP gathering. The main point of the majority of your posts is mean spiritedness & petty insults. Truly educated people understand that the world is made up of all types & accept that. A truly educated person would understand that not all hold the same political beliefs & while disagreeing on political stances, can see past the differences & hold civil discourse without resorting to pithy degradation. A worldly educated person would know that there is value in everyone’s point of view & not jump to conclusions when someone comes out in support of a viewpoint that does not align with another’s world view or even their own.

Axman states; “It has more to do with the level of entitlement that people have nowadays.”

In a sense you are correct, people are “entitled” to take their governments back from corporations and business, and that is just what they are going to do.

As for detoe44’s comment, every single word was either about me, or directed at me, so flattering, however again this discussion thread is NOT about me, so please stick to the subject being debated.

“It has more to do with the level of entitlement that people have nowadays. They all expect someone else to look after them.”

I have noticed that too many people these days throw around the word “entitlement” without having the faintest clue what it actually means.

When it comes to government, and that is what most of our discussion is at the moment about the government we have and whether we should vote to change it. Thus, when we talks entitlement we should be talking about statutory entitlement. That means that that there is a social contract with our governments to provide the citizens of this country, this province, this regional district and this city with certain benefits in return for the money we pay in taxes and user fees. The governments are entitled to collect the taxes. That is their entitlement. We are entitled to receive what we have agreed with the governments to provide for us.

In fact, those entitlements of both parties to the social contract means such benefits may not be discontinued without due process of law. That means such payments as welfare, old age security, disability, tenured public employment, unemployment compensation, public educations, public and private health, etc. may not be discontinued without notice and a hearing.

You want to remove statutory entitlements on a national basis? Go or it! Good luck!

and yes, voting is an entitlement we have as Citizens of this country. It is an entitlement which Harper wants to limit when the movement across the world is in the other direction. He is cutting away at those laws we have in place which make dictatorship more difficult to accomplish.

Then stop making it about you Sophic & stick with the topic at hand which is; Why can’t the federal NDP get their crap together? Much like their provincial counterparts they seem unorganized & in disarray. Is this really the quality one wants to be represented with?

“the topic at hand which is; Why can’t the federal NDP get their crap together?”

If you mean why do they not have candidates on all seats yet then I gave you the numbers as current as the last couple of days.

Liberals have 294 nominated candidates; Conservatives 255 and the NDP 231

There is a 10% difference between the Conservatives and the NDP. The Liberals, on that basis, are substantially ahead of both.

Why can’t the Conservatives get their crap together should be the real question. They asked for parliament to be dissolved at this time. They should have been better prepared.

That’s more like it detoe44, I think everyone would agree that the NDP performed admirably in their role as “Official Opposition”. I was extremely impressed with Mulcair’s ability to drill-bit down on some of the issues before parliament, and actually had Harper squirming at times.

Oh, and I must admit to not recognizing the NDP’s opposition to the Charter of Rights and Freedom killing Bill C-51, that alone boosted their popularity across this great nation. People know the NDP is a party that protects their interests, and not solely the interests of corporations and businesses.

The average Canadian sees the abuse of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program, and corporations and business used it as a source of cheap foreign labour, where everyday hard working Canadians were being laid-off and replaced by TFWP labour. I think it was around this time that hard working Canadians began to realize this Harper Government was not looking out for their best interests, this Harper Government was about looking after corporate and business interests.

That is what the NDP is all about, looking out for the best interests of hard working Canadian citizens, and not those of international corporations, that would exploit Canada’s TFWP as a cheap source of labour. The NDP is about people, and more and more Canadians are beginning to realize this.


the debate on youtube seems no one is interested. too early.

Whole heartedly agree gopg, I should have added “in this riding”. I think Harper is a bit afraid of the outcome of the election, but NDP as the ruling party? I just can’t see Canadians (the entire country not just NDP strongholds) choosing Mulcair or the NDP. Too untested on the national & international stage. A coalition? There is merit in that.

A coalition? You righties just can’t get it straight, the other day Cheetos called a coalition with the Bloc Quebecois “treasonous”. Yet myself and someone else had to point out that in 2004, Harper tried to do just that with the Bloc Quebecois.

Seems two-face and hypocritical to me, but what can you expect from a right leaning Harper government?


Latest news is that a trade deal that Harper was sure would be signed is in jeopardy and the current Auto trade deal with Canada may also go sour.

Wonder who of the opposition leaders will be prepared with this info hot off the press during the debate.

Sigh…Sophic if you remember a few weeks back you & I debated about the NDP. It bears repeating as you seem to think that I am right leaning in my politics…I have never voted Conservative, Reform or Liberal (provincial). I do however see positives in most of the political parties & can see their viewpoints. At one time I was a card carrying member of the NDP, Glen Clarke changed that. In my post I mentioned nothing about a Conservative coalition. Once again you are jumping to conclusions that aren’t there. A federal Liberal/NDP coalition? There is merit in that but they just do not have the right leadership, no dynamic personality to lead.

Welp just got finished watching the leadership debate, and I must say Elizabeth May and Tom Mulcair seemed to shine through and come out on top on most occasions. I was struck by the number of times Harper would say something and the others could be heard saying; “that’s not true”. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t that mean Harper was caught lying again and again?

My jaw dropped when he said his government had eliminated subsidies to the Oil and Gas Industry. Wow, I guess you can say anything to make yourself, and your government look good, it’s just too bad they are not true!

My two thumbs up to Elizabeth May and Tom Mulcair, clear winners in my opinion.

Sophic. I am sure most people who post here are absolutely amazed that you came to the conclusion that May, and Mulcair were clear winners. I suspect you came to that conclusion before the debate started.

This election is about who will be the official opposition, so what we have is a campaign inside a campaign. First the Liberals or the NDP want to form the Government, but failing that they want to be the official opposition, so they will pick away at each other during this election. May will run around pretending that she is the intelligent one, and is only asking for enough elected representatives so that she can have some power in a minority Government.

So we will end up with the left leaning Liberals, NDP, and Greens splitting the vote three ways. Hmmmm Wonder what that means for the Conservatives. Go Justin, Go Tom, Go Lizzy, tear yourselves apart.

Tom Mulcair for the most part during the debate looked like a deer in the headlights. He tried really hard to hide his actual character, and was successful to some degree, however it made him come off as a fawning Uriah Heep.

Trudeau got a haircut and a close shave, put on a new suit and tie, and for all intents and purposes put on a fairly good debate, but he has a long way to go, to get to the top.

Mulcair, Trudeau, and May were like three Mexican Chihauhua’s snipping at the heels of a Great Dane (Harper). You can get away with this as long as the Great Dane tolerates you, but that’s as far as it goes. Wait until the gloves come off.

No this debate is NOT about who will be the official opposition, the NDP are ahead in the polls and will stay ahead right through to a successful election.

Who would want to vote for a party, and leader, that is in a constant state of denial? Harper denies we are in a recession when we actually are in one. He denies there is a deficit for this past year, even though the parliamentary budget office AND the Bank of Canada says we have a deficit. I couldn’t believe my ears when he said his government brought in a more than 1 Billion dollar surplus, lying to us again Stevie, this time in a national debate.

Time to heave Steve, we need someone that actually knows what “reality” is, and that person is Tom Mulcair.

Elizabeth May is certainly smart, but other than for her seat, she is not a contender. She will likely take more votes from the NDP than from the Liberals. The contenders are Trudeau and Mulcair against Harper.

When watching the debates one has to remember that we are watching four people do their jobs. Sort of like watching four artists painting the same scene in their styles. They are all talking about the same country and the same citizens in the same world. In other words, they are looking at the same scene and want to paint the picture that is going to go for the highest price.

They all know how to paint. They all know how to fudge what they can’t quite see, and they all know how to cover up some mistaken brushstrokes.

The question is who had to do the most covering up of mistakes; who showed the most innovation in their artistry; who painted the picture that would be most liked by the people and who painted the picture which was daring; and who painted the picture which was more what the artist wanted to paint rather than the picture that would be the most popular. Harper and May fit into that pattern of approach. Trudeau and Mulcair painted the picture I think most people would like. They are the two who have a chance to unseat Harper so they had to be a bit more careful. But there is going to be a vote split on the centre-left if it keeps going like this for the next 10+ weeks. Something is likely to break.

None of them were up on the latest news about the pending Asian trade agreements and the impact that will have on the Canadian auto industry.

To think that May will take more than 3 or 4 seats is a pipe dream.

Harper has a history in the seat of power which will not benefit him. Trudeau and Mulcair do not. People gave Harper a chance the last time and he did not follow through in many areas. They will be giving someone else a chance now.

As some have posted on one of the many other sites,

“Harper’s strategy, he spits out lies and ignores everything else.”

“Indeed. It’s been his position for many years. Just spew it out, and then kill any statistics and muzzle scientists to speak on the facts. No questions from the media. Oh ya – and change the courts. He is diabolical.”

“Yep…same brainwashing and indoctrination from Harper for his base of 25%. The guy is an embarrassment! Mulcair won this one IMHO. However, I will vote strategically. ABC in October!”

“You can get away with this as long as the Great Dane tolerates you, but that’s as far as it goes. Wait until the gloves come off.”

I can hardly wait. If they do, that will put the nail into his coffin for sure.

Not sure what your smoking gopg2015 but is seems to work for you. Sophic Sage must be getting the second hand smoke.

We have a number of posters on this site that suffer from a serious case of Confirmation Bias.

**Confirmation Bias Definition**

((The confirmation bias refers to the tendency to selectively search for and consider information that confirms one’s beliefs))

Have fun with your predictions.

Sophic Sage. You must have seen the poll that shows that the Conservatives are projected to not lose any supporters in the next election. This means that Harper already has 5 million votes, so he is off to a good start.

And, of course, Palopu does not have confirmation bias.

The thing is, Palopu, you and I basically have different political beliefs. Call them biases if you wish, I have no problem with that. Bias is something that one develops over a lifetime of experience. Your life experience and mine are totally different, as is everyone else’s. That is a simple truism. You have your biases and I have mine.

Due to my tendency to research more often than I shoot from the hip, I actually research the pros and the cons of an issue. It is not normally politics, nor religion. Normally it is practical issues where my input can and often does make a difference. There researching all sides of an issue is mandatory to find a workable solution to a problem.

Generally, on this site, you shoot from the hip. In fact, you usually do not even take the time to find independent support for your point of view. After all that would be confirmation bias in your opinion. So your opinions are usually left without independent support.

The major mistake Trudeau made was to open up the Quebec separation question. It was not on the agenda. If he keeps on with that, it will gain separatist voters for the NDP in Quebec and lose voted there for the Liberals, but it will also gain supporters in the reverse for those in Quebec who are federalists. The real number, and this is why Mulcair was pressing him for it, should be a super majority which is 2/3 of the vote. That is the norm for any major change in a fundamental, longstanding relationship. The mistake Trudeau made is he did not practice the response scenario of asking that question and do a calculation of how many votes the NDP would lose and the Liberals will gain. Of course the whole country should also be interested in that.

So why did Harper want to shut the question down and say it is inappropriate? That was his bullying tactic showing up. He failed to get his way. The real question is, what would his answer be? The Conservatives are nobodies in Quebec anyway, so he might as well have said a supermajority. Then again, he might have recollected his days with the Reform or Alliance when he was quoted as saying that Alberta has some things they could learn from Quebec separatists; that Alberta deserves more from Canada and that they have to strengthen their relationship similar to Quebec. There was someone who posted something about “entitlement” earlier. Quebec actually does have a statutory entitlement which Alberta, I am sorry, does not have.

If anyone of the four actually had the ability to think on their feet it would have made a great part of the debate. But none had that ability and Harper opted out right from the start using the guise that it is not an issue.

BTW, my biased point of view, based solely on my past experience, a Gordon Wilson in his prime could have taken all four on. May would have been the only left standing at the end as an equal to Wilson.

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