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October 28, 2017 2:08 am

Candidates Debate Bill C-51

Thursday, October 8, 2015 @ 3:59 AM
(l-r) Candidates Barry Blackman, Tracy Calogheros, Sheldon Clare, Adam De Kroon and Trent Derrick. Photos 250News

(l-r) Candidates Barry Blackman, Tracy Calogheros, Sheldon Clare, Adam De Kroon and Trent Derrick. Photos 250News

Prince George, B.C. – There was a strong show of public interest in what the candidates in the two Prince George region ridings had to say about Bill C-51 and the rights of Canadians Wednesday night.  Enough interest in fact that the all candidates meeting, organized by the Stand Up for the North Committee, was moved from its original classroom venue into the larger Gathering Place area at CNC.

All of the candidates from both Cariboo-Prince George and Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies were invited to discuss a bill which the Conservatives describe as anti-terrorism legislation but which has been opposed by four former Canadian Prime Ministers including one Conservative, seven former solicitors general and ministers of justice, three former members of the intelligence review committee, two former privacy commissioners, a host of legal advocates, environmental groups and 60 Canadian business leaders, as well as a majority of Canadians.

The PG-Peace River-Northern Rockies candidates taking part were, in alphabetical order, Barry Blackman (Progressive Canadian), Kathi Dickie (NDP), Matt Shaw (Liberal) and Bob Zimmer (Conservative).  Elizabeth Biggar of the Green Party and Todd Keller, Libertarian, did not attend.

(l-r) Candidates Kathi Dickie, Richard Jaques, Matt Shaw, Bob Zimmer

(l-r) Candidates Kathi Dickie, Richard Jaques, Matt Shaw, Bob Zimmer

Cariboo-Prince George candidates attending were Tracy Calogheros (Liberal), Sheldon Clare (Independent), Adam De Kroon (Christian Heritage), Richard Jaques (Green) and Trent Derrick (NDP).  Moderator Vivian Lougheed informed the crowd that Conservative Todd Doherty sent word that he was unable to attend, which elicited a loud chorus of boos from the audience.

Bob Zimmer told the crowd that Bill C-51 was introduced because the attack on Parliament Hill last October showed that “in some cases security couldn’t talk to each other and they should have been able to.”  He says that was really the impetus behind the bill.

Matt Shaw asked whether the government is working for us or is it seeking to take more control.  He says there is a distinct pattern when a government tries to control its citizens: invoke a terrifying threat, show contempt for the press and then “set up an internal surveillance system to start spying on its citizens.”  Shaw believes that is what Bill C-51 is about.

Richard Jaques read out the definition of terrorism and said “now this ongoing Conservative fear mongering, I’ll call it what it is, this jihadist war we’re apparently fighting, Mr Harper says the jihadi terrorist is one of the most dangerous enemies the world has ever faced.  No Mr. Harper, you’re one of the most dangerous things we’ve faced.”

Kathi Dickie says communities are in distress and there are so many important issues we should be talking about such as the boom-bust cycle, health care, unemployment, overcrowded classrooms.  She believes Bill C-51 and supposedly-relevant questions about women wearing niqabs “is all just to distract, divide and conquer, using fear, mistrust, focusing on differences and then making us afraid of each other so we don’t trust each other.  And also curtail opinions that they see as threatening.”  She noted federal scientists who have been forbidden from speaking publicly and taking part in critical discussion.

Trent Derrick says democratic ideals are under attack by the fear tactics employed by Harper and the Conservatives and says the NDP will bring strength back to families and involve all Canadians in discussions build the economy and strengthen the country.

Adam De Kroon says Bill C-51 takes away individual liberties “and I think we have embarked on a slippery slope the last four years with the Conservative government in regards to privacy.”  He says under this government “we’ve been giving up essential liberty under the guise of security.”  He says there are several contentious bills which have been passed in secrecy.

Sheldon Clare says “I have significant concerns about Bill C-51, particularly giving CSIS powers to detain which in my view is a law enforcement division, and I do not believe that law enforcement division should be in the purview of an intelligence-gathering agency.  He also says the “number of people detained on terrorism charges since 2001 is extremely low, and they were caught not because of this new kind of legislation but by good old-fashioned gumshoe police work.  He says what’s needed is for the RCMP to have their funding re-stored so they can do the job properly.

Tracy Calogheros says this election is about trust, and that trust is under threat because the country is becoming something foreign.  “The divisive politics, the pitting one Canadian against another Canadian, not trusting our neighbours, not trusting each other, not trusting ourselves, not trusting our government.  That’s the scary part about a lot of this discussion around personal rights and freedoms.”

“Pretty well everyone at this table will agree that Bill C-51 is a dangerous piece of legislation.  There may be bits and pieces in it that will strengthen something in particular……but the piece of legislation, when you combine it with the behavior of the government and with the behavior of the individual running the government, it makes it a scary piece of paper.”

Barry Blackman says “all of these bills that we’re talking about today, these are all untested theories.  The Patriot Act down south is gone, but now we get our own version in the north.  It doesn’t make sense.”   He says we have a constitution which is meant to guide the people and provide the rule of law.

A member of the audience wanted to know who was going to stand for their constituents before their party in Ottawa.  Sheldon Clare says he wants to see more parliamentary oversight and balance the needs of his constituents with the needs of the country.  Bob Zimmer says “I value our liberty as much as you do, honestly.”  He says a portion of Bill C-51 dealing with what constitutes terrorism says for greater certainty “does not include advocacy, protest, dissent and artistic expression.  It explicitly says that in the bill.”

Matt Shaw noted that “CSIS actually had spies going to an all-native basketball tournament in Prince Rupert and circulating amongst the general population.  Not only that, they went to a church basement where much older ladies were making some protest signs.  They were circulating amongst those ladies and sharing that information with Enbridge.  Now this is alarming stuff.”  “So to answer your question, will I step up to bat?  Absolutely, and I will do anything to get rid of this kind of stuff because that is absolutely not the kind of country we want to live in.”

On the Fair Elections Act and tougher identification and vouching regulations two questions were posed by an audience member:  Are you in favor of restoring the pre-2011 voter I.D. regulations, and are you in favor of restoring the power of Elections Canada as an independent office with investigative powers?

Trent Derrick says restoring democracy is part of the NDP platform and restoration of both the ID regulations and the independence of Elections Canada receive his support.

Adam De Kroon says he dislikes the removal of the ability to vouch for other voters and says it’s important to balance voter I.D. verification with a freedom to vote easily and conveniently.

Richard Jaques says the act got rid of vouching other than for one person only.  He says “Elections Canada should have a mandate to promote voting.  We should be out there teaching people how to vote, where to vote, when to vote, period.”

Some candidates were asked what they will do to scrap Bill C-51 and protect the citizens of Canada.  Tracy Calogheros says there has been a lack of leadership and Bill C-51 is not legislation that is going to help us.  She says there will be changes to the bill which is now on the books and adds there has to be transparent, fact-based discussion.  Trent Derrick says NDP leader Tom Mulcair will be meeting with provincial and municipal leaders and a regular basis to discuss the issues.  He also says review will be conducted on Bill C-51 and the TPP deal.

Bob Zimmer pointed to the Constitution and said “all the laws we make are all backstopped by this.”

Varying thoughts, pro and con, were offered by audience members who rose to the microphones during the discussion.  Someone asked why any law-abiding person would have anything to fear in Bill C-51, another said the language is broad and vague and could be misused by any government of any stripe.  Another said CSIS will be able to break Canadian law and employ dirty tricks against Canadians.  Matt Shaw question why we need a special parallel law for different groups of people.

Three candidates were asked whether they would lobby their party to repeal C-51.  Tracy Calogheros said yes, as did Trent Derrick.  Bob Zimmer said no.


The next debate in the run-up to the October 19th election goes tonight at 7 at UNBC’s Canfor Theatre.


No Doherty again? He sure seams useless.

That’s right Zimmer all the laws are supposed to be backstopped by the constitution and the charter, so tell us why so many of the laws the conservatives try to pass are in contravention of both?

Harper is running scared, won’t allow his minions to talk….bye bye con artist.

bill C-51,
think Canada’s version of the USA’s Guantanamo Bay
get arrested on “suspicion” and you have “no” rights as you would if arrested under the criminal code.

but Harper and his government have flowered it all up to make people think it is an OK bill…
google it, and be prepared for halloween early and in real time.

Todd was looking at property down south – next door to Dick Harris.
Surprised Zimmer showed up – heard he was one his way back from down south and decided to make an appearance so that voters could put a name to a face.

When you people vote.. remember how well Doherty represented the cons during these debates… shows how well he would represent us me thinks..

bcracer you are right.. this is not a bill to keep Canadians safe..its to give the police and CSIS the right to do what ever they want to you disguised under this bill…

Harper is a DICtator

Doherty will be at the Vanderhoof debate (all candidates will be there, actually). Friday, Nechako Valley Senior Secondary School in the Integris Community Theatre. Starts at 7 p.m.

If you drive out early to attend make sure you stop at the Vanderhoof Department Store (open till six) and have dinner at J&S Restaurant to try some authentic German / Mennonite food – or have a piece of pie after the debate.

The Reid is good too, if you are looking for pub style meals.

Apparently Harper has been keeping the Supreme Court busy with enacting laws that do not cut it under the constitution and then with appeals challenging Supreme Court rulings. Shouldn’t Supreme Court’s rulings be respected?

Just saying.

So I went to Quesnel to visit my brother and do some hunting. Few to many drinks made for a late start in the morning. But we heard Todd was going to be at a debate that night. And since that’s more rare than a big buck we went to watch.

I now know why he avoids debates. He sat up there frantically flipping through cue cards after every question. Then would read his answers with all these dramatic pauses. Even his scripted final statement ended with him throwing away his speach as if he had enough and was going to be real for the last 20 seconds.

The only two candidates that seem to know there material are Tracy Calogheros and Sheldon Clair. Mind you Sheldon gets to make his up as he goes but he does have some interesting points.

My brother went there as a long time supporter of the Cons. But is looking at changing the way he votes in this election.

He is now torn between Tracy Calogheros, and Sheldon

Bill C-51 is yesterdays news. It is being kept alive by those who have historically voted against the Conservatives, and who are trying to use it to garner a few votes. Same thing applies to whether or not Doherty or Zimmer attended all the debates. There were probably 8 in all put on by various groups, who like to think that they are the leading edge of the political scene in these ridings, when in fact they are really trying to denigrate the Conservatives.

Their attempts to be worldly are actually a big joke. Most of them are political junkies and believe the rest of the Country takes as much interest in these issues as they do.

Both Doherty and Zimmer will be at the UNBC debate to-night. There will be over 300 seats available. I strongly suggest that the **mud slingers** P val, Ataloss, Digitus Impudicus, etc; attend and get to meet the candidates during the break, and discuss the various issue’s with them.

I am sure making money from the tin foil hat company.

Sure a lot of missinformation about c 51 from people who have never read it’s details. Sad how many can be so easily led with no critical thinking of their own.

Why not give us a number as to how many people attended this forum.??

What kind of reporting uses terms like **There was a strong show of public interest**, or they had to move to a larger space to accommodate those who attended.

A simple **85 people attended** or whatever the actual number was, would be more than sufficient.

When we use general phrases it usually means that attendance was down.

There really is a “Bob Zimmer”? Colour me surprised.

Aw shucks Palopu….always good to get advice from a professional poster like yourself. Looking forward to seeing the sweat rolling off Doherty’s dome.

Palopu wrote: “there will be over 300 seats available … attend and get to meet the candidates during the break”.

LOL … that ought to be the longest break I have ever heard of … are they providing beds in the residences?

How about setting up a camera and live streaming the event if it is going to be that good.

As far as meeting candidates, go to their headquarters when they are there. You’ll get the same bs there as anywhere else.

These are all politicians. They talk in generalities and comments which can be interpreted in at least two ways because it is all they know and because they do not want to lose your vote.

Frantically flipping through cue cards? Really? Just to see that I would have made a special trip to Quesnel! ;-)

Cue cards in use tonight, no introduction no closing remarks and 30 sec to answer questions that have been selected in advance, must be something on TV.

C-51 dead…. I see you have your wonder woman deflectors on Palopu… yeah..nothing to see here.. your privacy is gone.. but nothing to worry about…

DOnt you love Harper ripping on Trudeau for admitting he needs to run a deficit to fix things.. Yet harper ran one for 8 years but thats fine as now he is going to run a balanced budget.. he doesnt even know what that means… and his promise of a %20 cut on income tax.. more lies.. Harper has added well over 150 billion to our deficiet and thats great..but trudeau admits he will be adding 10 billion and Harper pounces all over him… what a croc from a crook

The Cons are trying to divide and conquer Canadians by how they dress now. We must have won the war over wearing your pants at the bottom of the butt. Heave Steve !

Todd was first with his signs, that’s enough.

P Val, if you are trying to reason with Palopu by bringing up the facts that Harper has added well over 150 billion to our national debt and that he has run eight deficit budgets you are out of luck. These facts have been brought up dozens of times! They are unacceptable because the past is the past and now we are urged to discuss only what is news in 2015. Even that is a waste of time because the Cons and Harper claim to be infallible.

I see the Harper Carpers are alive and well to-day.

When I hear a high pitched scream in the mall I think of three things.

1. A small childs balloon has popped .
2. A baby is hungry.
3. A Harper Carper is on the loose, and was told his team will lose the election.

I suggest that the Harper Carpers, look at their annual income for the past 8 years, and try and determine where Harper or the Conservatives took any of their money. What you will find is that in fact you are earning the same and more in any areas where the Conservatives are responsible. In those areas where the Provincial Government is responsible you will see that you have been kicked all over the map.

I have seen nothing coming from the NDP or Liberals in this campaign except foolish statements. Why would you go into deficit spending if it is not necessary. Who pays for the deficits.??? Do you think that Harper went into deficits because he had nothing else to do that day?? Don’t be foolish. The deficits were because of the 2008 recession which we came out of pretty good, and the so called possible recession of 2014/15. We now have a balanced budget.

Cant say much for the NDP, they are a blight on the political landscape, they have nothing to contribute to the national scene. It seems the best they can do, is the same as is done on this site by the Harper Carpers. Continuously bitch about Harper. That’s their political plan. Try and convince everyone that Harper **bad**. Well I can tell you they are having some problems.

They are falling in the polls in Quebec, and will come in third in this election. Thank God and Greyhound they will be gone.

To true PrinceGeorge.. but he is fun to play with..like this..

“I suggest that the Harper Carpers, look at their annual income for the past 8 years, and try and determine where Harper or the Conservatives took any of their money. What you will find is that in fact you are earning the same and more in any areas where the Conservatives are responsible. In those areas where the Provincial Government is responsible you will see that you have been kicked all over the map”

and why is that palopu…because harper has cut so much from transfer payments so the province has to get the money from us now.. SO just think with Harper promising to decrease income tax by %20.. HOW.. again by sticking to the provinces…

And with all these cuts he still cant balance a budget..

“I have seen nothing coming from the NDP or Liberals in this campaign except foolish statements”

Then why is Harper now promising the same thing the liberals are when it comes to parental leave.. so you are saying Harper is making foolish statements ???

“The deficits were because of the 2008 recession which we came out of pretty good, and the so called possible recession of 2014/15. We now have a balanced budget”

No we dont.. the facts have proven we are not seeing a balanced budget.just like we arent in a recession according to your BFF Harper
8 years of running a deficet budget is NOT coming out pretty good.. its losing badly..

Imagine someone saying… I have $5,000 bank…but owe $100,000 on my line of credit..but I am $5,000 for the good… sounds just like Harper.

Bazinga ;)

One can only hope that Palopu’s popularity on this site is a sign of things to come.

Obviously the Harper Carpers don’t understand the word Conservative, or Conserve. Ie as in Conserve tax dollars. Not everyone in this Country is in favour of unlimited funding to other levels of Government so that they can piss it against a wall.

I can not imagine anything worse than an NDP Government with their hands on the purse strings, or the Liberals for that matter.

Time for the Harper Carpers to start looking after themselves, rather than looking to the Government to supply their every need.

Im talking about those left leaning socialists who make in excess of $60,000 per year and who are constantly bitching about everything. Time to grow up and start to look after yourself.

papapoo….and yer buddy harper has done better?? $15 per year in the HOLE under this dirtbag…What has he done for Canada in 10years?/SFA….made us look like fools as a nation…..and there is $3.1 billion still missing for the coffiers under his watch….How does a mailroomboy -come politician make millions??? EH! papapoo??

Pal oh Pal… So its our fault the Harper cut the transfer payments and cant run a balanced budget…pathetic dude.

Harper doesnt understand conservative either.. 150 billion deeper in debt is not what I call conserving anything..

Your response..like Harper.. is pathetic and ignores reality.

P Val. Your problem is you live in a world of wishful thinking. You have no concept of reality. Trying to blame all you problems on Harper is a sign of ineptitude. You seem unable to cope with the reality around you.

Harper is one of the better Prime Ministers Canada has ever had. He got a majority in the last election that should be your first hint, that you are on the wrong side of the fence.

I seriously doubt that you ever voted for the Conservatives, hence your stance on every issue is predetermined. I on the other hand have supported other parties over the years and will probably do so in the future. My decision on how to vote is not based on the sort of drivel that you, and some other posters constantly put out.

Time for you to step away from your computer and go outside and see the real world at WORK.

I am constantly amazed that the left-wing nuts fail to mention that the deficits that the Conservatives ran were done usually with blessings of both the NDP and the Liberal Party.

In fact, while running a minority Conservative Government, wasn’t Stephen Harper not forced to run deficits due to pressure from the NDP and the Liberals to do so?

So, the NDP and the Liberals basically demand and force a minority Conservative Government to run a deficit and now the NDP and the Liberals want to criticize the Conservatives for running deficits?

What a bunch of morons!

Pal.. I noticed you only ramble with no facts to back anything or refute my facts… a true con..

Hart Guy..so you are saying its not Harpers fault for running 8 years of deficits but the other parties.. wow… now thats a stretch.. so how do you explain his majority gov running nothing but deficits and Canada being in a recession… whos fault is that?. another true con that has no grasp of reality..

you are making this to easy.. I am done toying with you..

Everyone have a safe and happy Thanksgiving.

P Val, leaving so soon? Having a bit of trouble accepting that some of the deficits that you decry where brought about at the behest of your beloved left wing parties, are you?

“.. so how do you explain his majority gov running nothing but deficits and Canada being in a recession… ”

How about Flip Wilson’s: The devil made me do it!

“NDP and the Liberals basically demand and force a minority Conservative Government to run a deficit…”

I thought it was the wisdom of the great leader that helped us make it through the recession by the method of heavy deficit spending, later even in good times?

Now I am asked to believe that the other two parties were wiser and “forced” him to do it! He was going to throw the country to the dogs? I really do not believe that anybody has ever successfully forced Harper to do anything against his will, not even irrefutable evidence and reason.

Prince George. You are splitting hairs. You know full well that the deficit spending would have been somewhat different if it were not for the NDP and Liberals trying to get some deals. In fact we could say that the Conservative spending was targeted and helped through the recession, while at the same time holding off the socialists hordes by giving them something to make it look like they had a reason for being.

There are Harper Carpers and check out Harperman. Check it out Pal

I attended the CNC candidate’s forum last night and I wanted to ask Bob Zimmer, that if his party’s Bill C-51 stood up to our Constitution, then why is it that 5 former Supreme Court Judges, 4 former Prime Ministers, The Canadian Bar Association representing 38,000 lawyers, 100 legal law experts , The Canadian Civil Liberties Association all say that this piece of legislation is unconstitutional. You may want to look into this.
Renown lawyer Rocco Galatti is taking the Harper Government to court over Bill C-51, because it is unconstitutional. According to Galati, Bill C-51 is a fascist piece of legislation that is virtually indistinguishable from laws passed in Germany and Italy in the 1930’s. You tube him.
I liked the idea that Tracy Calogheros brought forward regarding the free votes that they would have under Justin Trudeau and the Liberals, but it was bad timing as today Justin announced that there would be no free vote on the TPP. This means, that our Liberal candidates cannot vote against TPP on behalf of their constituents, even if they disagree with it as well. So now what?
The TPP will lock us in permanently, no 6 month escape clause like NAFTA.

BCfromBC. We will just have to wait for the courts ruling on C-51. In in the meantime I don’t expect to be arrested, or thrown in jail.

To try a insinuate that any Canadian legislation is facist, is pushing the envelope a little far.

What will you say if the court rules in favour of the Government???

Where has it been stated officially that the TPP “will lock us in permanently” if it’s approved by Parliament? Obviously if any member country approved the agreement and then violated the provisions they’d agreed to, they would not be “locked in permanently”. They’d be suspended, or expelled as a member of the Partnership. If it turns out as bad as many are making out, that’s all it would take to get out of it. Now if there’s no advantages overall to our being a member, why did we put so much effort into trying to be one?

Rocco Galatti hasn’t done his homework very well in another lawsuit he’s launched against the Federal Government on behalf of COMER (the Committee On Economic and Monetary Reform ~ a ‘think tank’ group headed by a former Communist economist). In that one he’s trying to prove the government should interpret the Bank of Canada Act in a way differently that it has, and the Bank of Canada could provide the government with all the money it needs to build infrastructure, etc. essentially interest free. Sure it could. But just what would all this money actually BUY when the government starts doing that? And even more important, how much of an interest rate would WE have to pay, on EVERY loan, to get anyone to accept money that was being inflated that way without a similar continuous inflation of taxation that WE, again, would have to pay to try to prevent that? What Trudeau wants to do is bad enough, and he’ll prove it to us if we elect him and he goes through with his deficit spending ideas. Just imagine him or Mulcair with their hands on the printing presses at the Bank of Canada. We could have a
$ 150 an hour minimum wage, but it would still take twice that much, or more, to be able to afford to live!

Pullopud….I’m disappointed in you. Your first post of the day only racked up a negative 21. I thought you were going to give the Veritas record of negative 35 a run. Oh well, maybe tomorrow.

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