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Won`t You Be My Neighbour?

By 250 News

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 04:00 AM

Prince George, B.C. – City Hall has approved  working with the downtown  area on a new idea to help clean up the core.  It’s called a “Good Neighbour Agreement” and Council has given the green light to try and put one together for the downtown.
 
Here's how it works:
Downtown businesses and the RCMP sign up to take responsibility and ownership of the issues that contribute to unacceptable social conditions.
 
The content of Good Neighbour Agreements tends to be similar and usually includes terms and conditions relating to noise and disorder, criminal activity, minors, sale and consumption of alcohol, adult entertainment, on-duty employees, cleanliness and cooperation with City  departments, the RCMP and other businesses in the neighbourhood.
 
Although there is an enforcement clause in the Good Neighbour Agreement which requires City intervention when necessary, those who are part of the agreement  recognize the success in reaching the objectives is largely dependent upon each Business’s willingness to make a concerted effort to support and stick to the principles outlined in the agreement.
 
Social Policy Facilitator Chris Bone says such agreements are already in place in communities such as Whistler, Nanaimo, and Kelowna.
 
Councilor Glen Scott  says he sees how this could be a hardship for business and had  plenty of questions about it.  "I like the concept and the proposal, but I just want to know if the businesses have been talked to because this reminds me of Partners for a Healthy Downtown, and I just don't see the difference."  He also noted the Nanaimo agreement only pertains to drinking establishments.
 
Bone says the expectation of Administration is that the door will be open to discuss which issues should be addressed.  She says  the proposal, if approved by Council would clear the way for Administration to start approaching businesses downtown to see  how it should be pursued.
 
Councilor Brian Skakun  wanted to know if the needle exchange, and shelters would be  responsible for the behaviour of their clients, and Bone says yes, "This is all neighbours, including service providers."
Skakun also wanted to know about enforcement, "Would the City  have the ability to deny a business licence if a business did not sign on to the agreement."  The answer  says Chris Bone, is, yes, but that would be the last stage "This is supposed to be a friendly agreement aimed at  building  relationships that would lead to a healthy neighbourhood."
 
City Manager Derek Bates, says there would need to be legal review to see what the  implications would be on  business licenses  issued for a specific area.
 
Councilor Skakun  says  the needs of individual  businesses be examined"We also have to look at the type of business and the size of the business, because some don't have staff to do  all the things this would require, so  I hope that when we consult with the businesses we take a one size does not fit all approach."
 
Downtown Prince George President, Shari Green says this is meant to be one of the tools in the tool box  "I understand all the concerns about legalities, but it  is meant to build relationships,  you know if someone has graffitti on the  side of the building  should that be allowed to  stay there forever, or should  the owner be required to remove it?"
 
How much would such an agreement cost?  Leisure Services Manager Tom Madden says it is expected this kind of agreement will have costs attached to it but the dollar figures aren't known at this point "Certainly that will be part of the next phase of this work".
 
Bone says  other communities where such an agreement is already in place indicate the agreement is not "onerous and  built  positive relationships."

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Comments

When the bums figure out which business's are being a bother they will smash their windows. The downtown is too far gone, and the bums know that they control the area. No one can touch them or they claim discrimination, or land claims, or get the poverty group suckers to come rescue them with a couple bucks so they can stay downtown. Write off the downtown and move on. The city should go build a golf course instead.
Yama, are you implying that all "bums" are
of native descent? Open your eyes buddy!
It is comments like the above that are the voices of doom and gloom for the downtown.
Instead of complaining about the downtown, people should be part of the solution.
Enough talk already, we need to see some action and support!
Any thing we do down town is a waste of money untill the scum balls are cleaned up. Thats the action thats needed!!
Of course he is. That's YDPC for you. We know that. Nothing new there.

I wish them luck.

BTW, where's the graffiti? The only place I have seen any serious graffiti is under the overpass near the Cameron Street Bridge as well as under the overpass of the railway bridge at the Heritage River Trail on the Fraser.

Not exactly downtown, and likely not Aboriginal in origin.

Then we have someone going all over town with little templates of einstein, trees, etc. and a can of spray paint. Also not likely the suspects YDPC is mentioning.

Of course, then we have all those WASPS that post their garage sales, entertainment news, etc on utility posts and anything else they can get at all over town.

Mabe Hydro and Telus can become good neighbours too.

;-)
Does this city council need a lesson in money management? Stop beating this downtown issue to death. Unless you get a big bus and move all the useless people out of the downtown core, it's pointless to spend anymore money down there. The fact that the needle exchange and the shelters are going to be responsible for their clients is a joke...someone who has just shot up and is nice and high does not give a damm if he pisses on the sidewalk or is shouting profanities. He's high...and all the bleeding hearts who think the druggies need a clean needle are aiding in the problem. Downtown is a disaster...wake up council.
I agree with PG girl. The city is all but discouraging people to open up shop downtown by forcing them to be on board with this program. Can the city deny a buisness permit should a legal private business not agree? I would hope not and I am sure the courts will strike it down as unfoar. I can also see problems arising from each camp - the city pointing their fingers at the police sayig it's their job and vice versa. Nothing will get done and the scum that walk the sowntown will continue to thrive. They are there because of the agencies that are there to feed them. I say close the shelters, soup kitchens and maybe they'll leave for greener pastures..wherever that is..or at least disperse from the downtown.
Why is it we know better when it comes to wild animals? If you feed the bears, it creates a problem for all involved -- especially the bear! Why is it any different when it comes to people? We are feeding the "bears" in downtown Prince George. Should we then be surprised when there are territorial conflicts?

The city needs to pull its collective head out of the sand. Regardless of how much money and effort are thrown at saving the downtown, problems will persist as long as public drunkenness and vagrancy is tolerated, and as long as people who have obvious drug issues or mental health issues are free to roam the streets.

Council needs to stand firm, and demand that the RCMP step up patrols, and demand them to enforce the law!! Get these offenders off the street!

Further, the city needs to also stand firm on zoning!! Institutional uses should be restricted to specific areas. Soup kitchens, needle exchanges, pawn shops, etc. only serve to create other vacancies in adjacent storefronts by attracting more undesirables. As long as these operations continue to take up former retail space, the problem will only get worse. The atmosphere will continue to decay, and it will be harder and harder to attract new investment and potential shoppers to the downtown core. Further, those stubborn shop-keepers that have stuck it out all along will gradually give up and go elsewhere making matters even worse.

The two streets that should be shining beacons of retail trade and commerce (3rd Avenue and George Street) are an absolute circus! I am sure this leaves a great impression on guests staying in the Ramada, or for those attending conferences at the Civic Centre.

This is a total joke really. What other town would allow this to happen in full view of its courthouse or city hall??

This is a total joke really. What other town would allow this to happen in full view of its courthouse or city hall??

Williams Lake.
LONGWORTH _ "As long as these operations continue to take up former retail space, the problem will only get worse."

You are right on the money. With one exception. It is not those facilities that you think that started that trend.

Before many of those facilties had grown in the downtown, the banks and governments were invovled in the move to take over retail space.

The first was the CIBC, when they purchased the buildings to the west of the main branch, built a one story addtion over part of it and left an empty lot on a street frontage with birch trees - that has been like that for over 20 years.

The Bank of Montreal did precisely the same. Both were going to build multi storey buildings prior to the crash of 1981.

The the feds kicked out the stores on the main floor of the building on Victoria and third. OB Allen's, Blacks Fur (moved next door to where Yuins Board shop is now), the travel agency ... and replaced it with mirrored glass against the city's OCP guidelines which the City does not enforce, so they might as wll pull that out of their OCP. They like to harass the little downtown businesses instead as is obvious form this latest move.

Then we replace street activbity around the Macdonald hotel with non-retail use with a court house .... and Plaza 400 is dead to the street as well .... as will the new police station be on what should be one of the prime business streets - Victoria.

Then we put a box of a gaming cetnre in an area which had some small retail ... so that is now a dead street.

This city does not understand what makes a downtown tick and how to wind it up so that it does.
If it is a drug problem, then tackle the drug problem. That is an issue for the police.

What other city you ask...

Try Zurich, Switzerland ... long known as one of the drug centres in Europe.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE2DE1F30F932A25751C0A964958260
Nothing ventured nothing gained right yama
I agree with PG Girl and Imorg!
Until something is done to encourage the deadbeats to hit the road,nothing will change down there.
They are just like a good dog...if you feed them well and give them a warm place to sleep,they will NEVER go away!
I also agree with Longworth that a higher police precence will make a big difference.
Get out of the damn cars and walk!
Why city hall puts up with this crap in the downtown core is a complete mystery!
They really don't get it!
Start over!
Ever since the casino moved the downtown has just got worst,if you want the drug addicts and alcoholics to leave you need to bring in more regular people downtown addicts like to hang with their own kind more regular folk less bums and alkies
"Ever since the casino moved the downtown has just got worst"

They moved to where the action is - closer to suburbia. Suburaban vices are not as visible as are those in the downtown area. Other than that, they are no different.

I have little doubt that many of those who speak about street people as "deadbeats", "undesireables" and God knows what else, have the same traits, except that they have enough income to conduct their habits within the confines of their closest friends.

Which, of course, makes it right! Right?

Well ..... there are more of the suburbanites doing dope than there are street people doing dope. They both have to get it somewhere. Who are the main ones that keep the drug trade in the money? The suburbanites and the "beautiful people" and "jet setters", not the homeless or publicly visible addicts.
How would anyone get the idea that natives are a problem downtown? Ridiculous!
"I have little doubt that many of those who speak about street people as "deadbeats", "undesireables" and God knows what else, have the same traits, except that they have enough income to conduct their habits within the confines of their closest friends."

Woop dee do. What does this have to do with the downtown?

I'd guess the percentage of 'street people' who have a drug or alcohol problem is significantly higher than the suburbanites. Again so what, the issue is how to clean up the downtown and attract business.
My, my.
Who was it said - "if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".
I can hardly wait until after the election in November so we can stop talking about downtown revitalization for another four years. Ho hum.
I see plenty of "street people" whenever I'm in downtown Vancouver (Robson Street for example). The main difference there of course is that there is loads of other stuff going on as well, something that PG's downtown is SEVERELY lacking.

If we make the downtown a desirable place for people to go (shopping, entertainment, services, etc.) the average "street person" will be a non-issue because they will no longer stand out. IMHO, that is what we need to work on and that is where the City has failed. If the "street people" were not there, there STILL wouldn't be much of anything to attract people downtown. That is the issue.

Don't get me wrong, you still need to deal with the aggressive and violent people in the downtown and we need to be VERY diligent in doing so. That being said, it's also plain stupidity to think that every homeless person is looking to rob you. One has to wonder if some of our citizens have ever been to a city other than Prince George and actually taken a REAL look around their streets to see what goes on there as well. Perhaps they are too mesmerized by a building larger than 5 or 6 stories to notice :)
I don't recall seeing where anyone said that every street person was out to rob you, but you make good points NMG.

Vancouver's Robson St. is an excellent example of where the street people are almost a non-issue because of the other activities (i.e. shopping) which our downtown lacks.
I think Vancouver has a higher class of homeless. After all, it costs a lot less to be homeless here in PG than it does in Vancouver.
Justbecauseican, Take a drive or maybe a walk through the George Street area and tell me who you see. I hope you make it out without being accosted.
Someone asked “which other city”. I think the question should be “which city does not have its homeless street people?”
Let’s take a look at homeless people in Ottawa ….

• “Homeless and terrorized” in Ottawa – female and likely not aboriginal – read some of the comments – what a difference between those posters and the ones on opinion 250 – that is the question WHY ARE PEOPLE ON OPINION 250 SO INCONSIDERATE??? Now there is an article if I ever saw one http://flickr.com/photos/mamaonthego/387024596
• http://flickr.com/photos/mikeygottawa/2659822971
• http://flickr.com/photos/mikeygottawa/2545204071
• http://flickr.com/photos/slaviolette/380174061
• http://flickr.com/photos/mazecanadia/827568949
• http://flickr.com/photos/mikeygottawa/2547144250
• http://flickr.com/photos/bilodeau/2416535954
• http://flickr.com/photos/preciouskhyatt/sets/72157601927720181
And then there is East Hastings in Vancouver – as in “you ain’t seen nothin’ yet PG”
• http://flickr.com/photos/mel6manu/1554108762
• http://flickr.com/photos/sorrel/2045660093
• http://flickr.com/photos/howaboutapeek/346460266
• http://flickr.com/photos/bigohr/933475483
• http://flickr.com/photos/bigohr/933514345
• http://flickr.com/photos/blindphotography/492114519
In fact, why do you not do your own walking through flickr and just type in the word “homeless” along with the name of a city in North America ….. then when you have done that, type in a city in another part of the world … try Tokyo …. Madrid
It’s a world situation ….. its an URBAN situation ….

If you have the solution to the problem (remember they used to have pauper prisons and gave up on that) then you can become a billionaire very quickly. And be sure to let our City Fathers know.

:-(
OOPS ..... foget to put the magic html tags on.....

Ottawa
http://flickr.com/photos/mamaonthego/387024596
http://flickr.com/photos/mikeygottawa/2659822971
[url]http://flickr.com/photos/mikeygottawa/2545204071
[/url]
http://flickr.com/photos/slaviolette/380174061
[url]http://flickr.com/photos/mazecanadia/827568949
[/url]
http://flickr.com/photos/mikeygottawa/2547144250
[url]http://flickr.com/photos/bilodeau/2416535954
[/url]
http://flickr.com/photos/preciouskhyatt/sets/72157601927720181

Vancouver - east hastings
[url]http://flickr.com/photos/mel6manu/1554108762
[/url]
[url]http://flickr.com/photos/sorrel/2045660093
[/url]
http://flickr.com/photos/howaboutapeek/346460266
[url]http://flickr.com/photos/bigohr/933475483
[/url]
http://flickr.com/photos/bigohr/933514345
[url] http://flickr.com/photos/blindphotography/492114519
[/url]
I work in downtown PG and walk around on a fairly regular basis. NMG is absolutely right about the homeless standing out. I look down some of the streets and if I saw 3 or 4 other people on the sidewalk that aren't homeless types that would be lots. Sometimes downtown can look like a ghost town!!

In a city of 80,000 people, most of us typically don't spend much time downtown. I know a lot of people that say if it wasn't for work they would never come downtown.

I think the "good neighbour agreement" might be a step in the right direction, but even if it works will people come downtown? I doubt it.
oh well ... computer error

;-)
Some people are downtown and they don't even know it.

Some people think Victoria is not downtown. Others think the Library is not downtown. They have an awfull lot of people go through there they say.

Some don't think the Save-on-Foods in Parkwood is downtown .....

What is downtown anyway? Everyone on here probably has a different downtown in mind.

Is Cimo's downtown? North 54? How about the White Spot? Shogun in the Inn? Winston's? Ric's Grill?

The invisible downtown and the downtown many go to to have a special meal are actually quite intertwined as they are in many other cities.
Look at the picture:

http://flickr.com/photos/catapultsam/2259243206/sizes/l

See all the people? See what attracts them downtown?

We are a city of WASPS that hibernate in suburbia at night and on weekends. That's why they are not downtown.

And I think there is a lot of truth in that. If we were like those who live in cities which have vibrant downtowns with a good mix of options, then we would really not be living here.
I know PG people typically don't like Kamloops but they have one option I like.

http://www.kcbia.com/notices_forms/rte_bylaw.htm


They offer a tax exemption for developers that will develop a new property downtown. They also attach some strings to the exemption. They want the developer to have 50% residential, accessory uses and amenities etc.

Sure sounds like they want people to live in downtown and have reasons to stay downtown.
So the question I have is:

That was passed in October of 2006. That was almost 2 years ago. How many "developers" took advantage of that?

We have tax incentives for storefront improvement or something of that nature. There might be one or two who would qualify for taking advantage of that. Possibly SpeeDee, if that didn't happen before that went into effect.