Clear Full Forecast

Raw Log Exports.. The Way Of The Future

By 250 News

Thursday, September 25, 2008 03:59 AM

Prince George, B.C. -

Forest industry experts say that while there is much talk about restricting the export of raw logs from Canada to China or the USA, the reality is that is becoming the future of logging in at least some areas of the province of BC.

One industry expert puts it this way, “I believe that we are nearing the end of the low end commodity market in our lumber production, just as the American Running shoe market discovered that they could manufacture running shoes off shore and sell them cheaper,  so is the lumber industry “.

The government ,he says, is reluctant to move in because they need the stumpage money, there is some employment in the Silvaculture section, there is employment in the harvesting and transport of the raw logs and above all that there are no tariffs to face. So they send the raw logs to say for example China where labour costs are cheap. The random 2x4’s are manufactured at far less cost and they arrive back in Canada at less than half of what it costs us to produce that same dimension lumber.

In Prince Rupert ship loads of raw logs are being exported to China from that port. They are being shipped by the First Nations people from the region who are either buying or harvesting the raw logs loading them on ships and sending them off to the markets. They face no restriction in shipping raw logs and while in the southern half of the province where logs are being cut and shipped into the USA as a means of getting around the Lumber agreement the cost of finishing that lumber is more in line with the BC costs making it less of a commercial opportunity, not so with China say the experts.

Because of the vast difference in labour costs experts say BC’s only salvation may be to grow the value added business.


  NDP Leader Jack Layton set out a variety of steps he would take as Prime Minister to restore and revitalize the forestry industry in Canada. He said he will start by ending Harper's 2007 softwood lumber agreement and working to open U.S. markets based on fair trade in lumber. 

Layton said if elected Prime Minister he would: 

* Restrict raw log exports to make sure Canadian jobs come first.

* Create opportunities for businesses and workers through value-addeddevelopment, and innovation.

* Encourage and accelerate sustainable forestry practices.

* Overhaul Ottawa's inadequate program to combat the pine beetle and otherinsects.  

Nathan Cullen, Skeena - Bulkley Valley NDP incumbent says he has  emphasized the need to develop value-added processing in Canada,instead of continually shipping raw logs out of Canada: "There is nothing that workers in other countries do to Canadian lumber that couldn't be done right here," said Cullen. "We should be processing our wood here in the Northwest ­ thats what Ill be fighting for if re-elected."

 Cullen says that while he recognizes the fact that 1st Nation communities on the coast are shipping raw logs to China, they collectively have told him that they would rather mill that wood in the area. The 1st Nations community says Cullen is saying that they would prefer to have people working at a mill rather than exporting raw logs.

The single greatest increase in imports into Canada from China in 2007 was lumber products.

Industry executives say the way we have been harvesting our wood in BC and in particular along the coast will change dramatically in the next decade, we may have to be satisfied they say with cutting and hauling the wood for shipment to China and other off shore countries for processing.


Previous Story - Next Story



Return to Home
NetBistro

Comments

These KDL guys have been at it for quite some time locally exporting raw logs from the Fort St James area by rail.

http://www.kdlgroup.net/dynamicdata/WeighScaling.aspx

The PG sort yard is also another big local exporter of raw logs and or cants that can be further milled elsewhere.

A lot of the small mills nowadays don't make dimensional lumber, but rather cants to be shipped elsewhere to be sized into dimensional lumber out of country.
Quite the election promise, regardless of the politcal incumbment murmuring such change. Why is that such BS manifests only at election time and never comes to fruition? I'd find it more believable if actual efforts regarding such issues were tackled prior to an election, its not as if the electors haven't already voiced their disdain on the issue of the forest industry and their disdain over raw log exports. Akin to the exporting of the unrefined tar sands oil or any raw material salvaged from this nation. If we'd refine the oil here, there would probably be less market speculation as our refineries wouldn't be in a hurricane belt. It is time the crats played a little more of their poker hand in regards to our raw materials. These raw materials essentially belong to Canadians, not big business, if they want it, here read the rule sheet. Our largest trading partner has made the rules and we followed like sheep to the slaughterhouse. They want our wood desperately, they don't want to mow down the rest of their forests. They want our oil just as bad. Our tar sands are a vast holding tank for the US miltary machine, always available and production ready to be stepped up when the occasion requires. Purportedly, our neighbours have one of the largest untapped oil basins within the Rockies area. Apparently their environmental eco-police would prefer to limit the devastation that the extraction would cause to such a pristine area, for now that is. I'm not suggesting we gouge our consumers, only provide a means that Canadians become the primary beneficiary. I'm not very economically savy, but we must be able to provide a better solution than what we currently mastermind. I understand we must be competitive with other markets, but how is giving away our resources accomplishing that.

A final observation. I've seldom seen persons of First Nations decent operating a Husqavarna, let alone drive a logging truck. What do they call logging?
Even if the lumber comes back to Canada cheaper than what we can produce it for here it still doesn't make it right to give away all our resources and reduce the amount of Canadian jobs here.
STOP RAW LOG EXPORTS PERIOD.

Allowing exports simply allows these companies to collect their profits from another country while giving our jobs to others that do it for lower wages.

Complete and utter BS.

Or we could just sit on our logs and China would have to find something else to build with, like steel or concrete. BC is the one that is trying to sell wood for construction, and there isn't anyone else that is willing to buy or has a market for lumber.

When the market for metalurigical coal dried up we were left wondering what happened. Now the coal trains are rolling again and some people want the Good Ol' Days when everything was nice and quiet and we sat on our coal (that is owned by the people, Heehee!).
"Even if the lumber comes back to Canada cheaper than what we can produce it for here it still doesn't make it right to give away all our resources and reduce the amount of Canadian jobs here."

It is coming back too cheap! Levy a Canadian *import carbon tax* on any wood products that were shipped first to China and that back again on container ships which burn thousands of tons of fossil fuels on every roundtrip.

Raw materials (like logs, minerals, metals etc) should be processed in the country of origin, rather than being taken on a great circle tour of the Pacific Ocean!

Is the Federal Government still asleep at the wheel (as it was with the Softwood Lumber Disagreement) or are the bureaucrats bereft of any kind of imaginative thinking when it comes to putting Canada and Canadians first?

I mean, here we are busy levying carbon taxes on each other at every level of daily activities and we are forgetting to look around to see our competitors are doing.

Ordinary citizens are encouraged to shop for products that are produced locally to reduce our carbon footprint - yet, it is alright that 2x4s made from Canadian logs come all the way from China?

Wow.

Reading this ,I think we have gone mad, we will export the last Job in this Country and then how will you be able to pay for anything, with UI or Welfare ?
To some degree China is being used as a distractor in this issue. Unprocessed logs are also going to the US by a constant stream of truckloads. Ask anyone who lives, and used to work in the industry, on Vancouver Island.

The article infers that, since China processes those logs more cheeply than the US, that makes it undesirable to export there and more acceptable to export to the US. That is nonsense. I suspect BC gets the same benefit no matter what it costs either of the countries to actually mill the wood.

The removal of appurtenance by our provincial government is the prime cause of these exports, and the consequences are a prime example of how their incompetence has impacted our province's ability to furnish work to its citizens.

The mention of it being done by First Nations is another distractor, since the large international lumber companies are exporting logs at as great or greater a rate. The race of the exporters is irrelevant, employment and income is the real issue, so a group in competition with those companies has no alternative at the moment.

Raw log exports do accomplish some things, though. Lumber companies can make money more easily by just exporting logs to underutilised mills in the US, thus improving efficiency and their profit margins. The secondary benefit is that they can sell real estate instead of harvesting logs for milling, as the scandel on Vancouver Island with Western Forest Products shows.

It should come as no surprise, then, that the spokesmen for these companies want us to believe that this is the new lumber Industry and the wave of the future. The campaign to bring about acceptance by the Canadian Public is obviously in full swing, but don't for one instant believe that this is for the population's benefit. It is not. It is solely for the benefit of those corporations involved in the massive raw log exports with our provincial government's collusion. It is only the new standard if we allow it to be that.

Rather than tax imports from one country in an attempt to punish it for whatever reason and likely violate the GATT, surely it would make more sense to re-introduce appurtenance. It worked well for a long time and the industry was in reasonable health while it was in effect. It is only since it was removed that the industry has tanked. True, it may not be the only reason but it most certainly is a major factor.
oh ya will the price of lumber drop? of course not. and since we won't have jobs how will we be able to buy this lumber?
Outwest : you are right in a sense. Think about it people. We export our oil, our gas, our hydro, and our logs. Then in return we pay top dollar when it comes back.
We should be supporting our country with these resources. Instead we employee thousands in other countries and meanwhile politians rave about the employment it creates here in Canada.
Then as soon as the loonies raises in value we all race to the US to buy products that are a fraction of the price here...I dont get it !...
Diplomat----I sure wish Gordon Campbell would read your post. How true. If the government want the average citizen to clean up and go greener...then it needs to start at the top..He was asking for input ..on how communities could make a difference. Honestly if the government..took a long hard look at the damage they are creating..perhaps a difference could be made.

I am not talking about taxing the poor citizen to death..we are constantly paying for mistakes made by government. Personally I am tired of the crap. Gst was a temporary tax..ha...temporary my a$$.
Go to Home Depot and check the kitchen cupboards. They are importing junk cupboards from China at afraction of the price for thos manufactured here in our country.

Hewers of wood nad carriers of water is were we will end up. This is madness.

Cheers
If producing lumber here was profitable at the moment, then sure, mill the logs here. But if you haven't noticed, times are tough for lumber. I would prefer to see logging, silviculture, road building, transportation, and other associated contractors and industries working rather than forcing companies to produce products at a cost and lose money. Then the mills shut down, and everyone is out of a job.

With companies going under and shutting mills down, it's no wonder they look to the US and overseas. If a company goes bankrupt here, it's not going to be able to run a mill, let alone employ anyone. Appurtenancy stifles processing innovation and forces companies to produce the lowest-cost product. There is no incentive diversify your products if you are constrained to your fibre supply.

And at what scale should appurtenancy end? (if it were still in effect, I mean) Can logs harvested near Mackenzie be milled in PG? Or should we just never touch that area now that there's no sawmill for anyone to run? Should there be a mill in, say, Tumbler Ridge, just because there is havesting nearby and it would employ locals?

Raw log exports and will be here to stay as long as processing can be done cheaper somewhere else. This debate will continue, we'll all pick our side and not much will come of it.
You make some vsalid points, swingline, but who will pay for the things you want to see when the companies are going bankrupt. That is happening even though appurtenancy is no longer in force, so the threat of it is a paper tiger.

One thing appurtenancy did do was keep jobs in communities, since if they wanted to make any money the companies had to mill locally. Now they do not, and the mills are closing down. So where is the advantage to employees in that?

Your other points about the areas involved could be solved by agreement if people wanted to. However, I suspect your final paragraph is true.
So haw many people here shop in China=Walmart, everyone, thought so.
diplomat.... ditto.

This is just more stupid human tricks. Clear cutting BC lands to ship logs to China - half way around the world - only to have the finished wood sent back to N. America...? We're doomed as a species as long as we allow our worship of money to dictate every move we make no matter the cost to people or the environment.

I just know I'm not from this planet... but when are my real parents going to come back to this planet of fools and take me home? On my planet we don't worship dead paper or rule our lives according to ego, emotion or what we wish were true instead of what is true.
I agree with diplomat on the concept raised about needlessly wasting energy shipping things around the world.

The Canadian forest industry is being decimated by many things at the worst possible time. Energy prices, and the carbon tax. The softwood lumber agreement. Increased waste disposal costs and strict new polution restrictions. Numerous new rules to issues of safety are leading to lower productivity and higher costs. All combined this is leading to reducing investor confidence into manufacturing in Canada. Are these in fact entirely natural forces?

Ironically the good intentions of a green Canada--a green BC--a safer workplace--supposedly friendly trade agreements has all caused more harm than good, especially to the environment.
Its great to have ideals that seem to have stellar goals of improvements--but it takes an enormous amount of money to accomplish these improvements, at a time when there is no money "earmarked" to do this.

Our competitors are not playing by the same rules as our governments demands of our industry and this explains part of the story. Our governments are also responsible for its stratedgies which contribute to why we can no longer compete with many products. There are many reasons for this.

Our big business industry is looking after itself in all this and these corporations knew that the softwood deal would hurt them the least. They supported the signing of this agreement. One CEO even said that it was his corporations goal to maintain cash reserves to aquire failing competitors. He needed no crystal ball to predict such an outcome.

We now do not have a manufacturing sector that can economically process our forest profile and now only the best timber gets used. Apparently the profitability of a few specialised wastefull corporations precedes the importance of utilizing our natural resources, employing our people and ensuring Canadian social benefit.

Our giant forest companies have taken a large part of their softwood refunds which are Canadian made profits from our resources and invested this money in the US forest industry which competes against Canada.
Great for the corporations but nothing could be worse for the future of our Canadian forest industry and specifically the people of Canada. There is a huge difference and consequance to the "golden rule" of power than what is purported as simply the "survival of the fittest".

Thanks again for the softwood "deal".

We will likely never see this get better when governments simply follow the lead from giant international forest corporations who have little loyalty to this country.
Log exports will increase as our manufacturing sector shrinks and only the companies which hold the timber rights will prosper from this BC government stratedgy.
Why is it that decisions made by our governments that are clearly mistakes cannot be re-visited. After all Canada at one time had a death penalty that subsequient governments thought otherwise.
Just came back from Kevin's planet and noticed someone clearcut the hay field next door. What the heck!! Now why would someone clear cut all those stems??

And now I suppose they are going to waste fuel shipping that hay someplace. Now that the big corporation has cut down all the hay, are they going to waste more fuel shipping us beef and pork? We should take back the hay, because it belongs to the people, and everybody get a pig and make our own bacon. We don't need anybody!

Now I feel better, solved all this worlds problems and now I'm going back to Kevins world and spank his parents.
Bang on Diplomat!...well said.
And obviously on Kevin1006's planet,money is not needed.
Well, that's it then...I am moving there as soon as I figure out where it is,and before I go I will give everything away to a doomed member of our species.
Goodbye cruel world!
I don't think that the mentioning of facts (the raw logs are shipped to China, some of them by First Nations people) which are essential to the story (how can one have a valid story about anything if one is not allowed to mention names of places and people?) represented an attempt by the author to distract from some other aspects, whatever they are.

These other contributing aspects can be the subject of another report, if an author or reporter puts them on paper so we can all read them.

"The single greatest increase in imports into Canada from China in 2007 was lumber products."

Well, if it had been Bolivia or Mongolia, the writer would have said so.

Shipping lumber exports from China to Canada is like shipping coals to Newcastle; to me at least.



How will stopping raw log exports create jobs?!?

If raw log exports were banned, thousands of harvesting and tree planting jobs would be lost. If there is no demand then there will be no need for workers to supply.

The simple fact is most of us would rather pay for cheap junk from Wal-Mart then expensive junk made in Canada.

Diplomat said we simply need to tax the imports! How does that create jobs? The only thing that’s going to do is make it so we can only buy expensive junk. Good idea! I have all the money in the world and I like to pay for expensive junk!!

So taxing the imports will make Canadian manufactures more competitive in the Canadian market. But the biggest problem is that the Canadian market is too small to support big business, so we still need to export are valued added junk, but once again, who wants to buy expensive junk...

Doesn't anyone remember what it was like back in the 90's when we didn't have the softwood lumber agreement? I do, my dad lost his business and my family suffered because of it. I'll admit that the deal isn't perfect, but its better then nothing.
Apache, I think you missed the point of the opposition to raw log export. B.C. has the timber supply China and the U.S. require to maintain their lumber mills. Russia has tariffed their raw log export vitually elliminating Russia's raw log export. As long as Canada supplies the raw log resource lumber supply and low lumber commodity prices will remain. If Canada slowed or stopped the export, sawmilling in other countries would slow [no timber supply] decreasing world lumber production and increasing commodity prices makeing sawmilling viable in Canada once again. Remember we own the ball and we can make the rules in which we want to play the game. Once the rules are in place corporations will find a way within the rules to turn a profit. Canada needs to stop bending to the pressure of corporations to maintain the profit at all cost of the corporation. This could take time [a couple years] or we could continue on the present downhill slide. Then as you say Apache it will be nothing.
Chinese labour is very cheap, but I have not seen imported 2x4s (made in China from Canadian raw logs) at half the price of 2x4s which are made here with Canadian labour.

The savings are not being passed on to the consumer. Where does the end consumer get a bargain? If I have to pay a lot for a 2x4 regardless of where it comes from I would rather to pay for one that gave a job to a local Canadian worker.

"Diplomat said we simply need to tax the imports! How does that create jobs?"

I think I answered the question. And, it would eliminate the need to ship the stuff across the Pacific and back again.
So just the boat owner and sailing crews would loose their jobs? Well at least I don't know any sailors or dock workers, so screw them. Someone has to suffer, I guess.
Gee- Raw log exports- while this article is may be incourgage to some- nothing to be concerned about in PG- believe me- PG isn't even on the list- why I am the I have been in the top ten exports for a number of years- the hot sorts- cedar poles, cedar chip(gee I wonder what happen to the fences in Texas and south), Asia, and high end plywood. I work on the coast PG isn't even on the radar screen so why even post this article.
when the sawmills go, the pulpmills go, the papermills go, the machine shops go, the suppliers go, the couriers go.............I could go on but I think you get it.
I am not sure who wrote the original article but I believe that a couple of mistakes were made.
As far as I know our logs are not going to China to be made into random 2x4s to be shipped back to us. However our logs are going to China to be made into virtually every other type of value added products and SOME is shipped back to North America.
The more labour which is required to manufacture a product, the more the advantage which countries such as China has over us.
There is one bright spot in China importing our logs in that they will develop and increase domestic use of our types of wood and perhaps buy more processed products in the future..when we ween them off our logs.

The 15% softwood export tax which we charge ourselves works against our value added industry much the same way. The more a product sells for the more tax is charged and the more disadvantaged we are at competing, making these products.

No such import tax or tarrif exists on either side of the border for these wood products when we import them, and we are importing more wood products of all types from the US. We import US made 2x4s and many other products which may or may not come from Canadian logs. The higher our dollar is against the US dollar the more they will export to us.

I believe it is more harmfull to Canada to export logs to the US than China because the logs which we provide the US for sure compete against Canadian production. It directly flows into the North American market and continues to depress lumber prices from over supply. In addition when we ship our logs to the US we depress the log prices in the US and their mills gain advantage from this as well.
lost it all, you said it all!! I have read all the comments on this article, and wanted to put my two bits worth in!! You put it in for me, well said!!

THEY need our resources!!! Then if that is the case, here are the rules! Don't like the rules, you are out of the game!! Go buy somewhere else!!

USCA (United States and canada of America), coming to a neighbourhood near you!!