Wonder if we will notice a difference in the air?

Not if the refinery doesn't shut its stinky self down too.

nice... Canfor wont hafta pay the stupid OT rates that is normally paid ...

triple time on x-mas,boxingday and in the case of Paper machine new years day ... probally saved 1/2 million dollars

Hey, lets get city council to shut down the refinery for a month over Christmas as well.

Let's see, with every major employer shut down over Christmas we could test run the food bank to see how it keeps up when the air in PG is clean. Happy Christmas from the people at the Clean Air & Opera Lobby.

Great Idea Yama as always you old cynic.

I see Mikey has a problem with workers prospering at Christmas. Canfor gladly pays the OT so they dont have to shut down and they can keep running. Thx Yama for reminding evryone about the food banks at this time of year. ciao

I can't think of a better time to have off from work if they need to close. It sounds like the people who have posted on here haven't a clue as to how important industry is to PG. If you don't like it why do you live here? Like it or not, the pulp mills are a business and if closing at christmas makes good business sense then they should. Businesses are in business to make money. Period.

How many employees does it have?
How many years have we breathed the putrid air?
It is in the wrong location.
Move it, move it, move it.
Maybe we were here before the pulp mill.

Since I was a small child, we've always called it 'the smell of money'... I know I wouldn't be in this town if not for the pulp mill...

Businesses are in business to make money.

Here I thought they were in the business of making the product that they produce. If they want to make money, they should get a contract with Ottawa to go into the money printing and/or stamping business.

Nothing like the smell of money coming straight off the printing presses.

At least you folks have jobs. I bet the people of Mackenzie would love to have the 'smell of money' wafting over town right now.

Those folks who want to move the mills are right. Move them to Mackenzie. We'd gladly take them.

Hey gus, you make no sense. They produce a product to sell and then make a profit. Canfor does not produce things just for fun. Hey lamb, you foot the bill for Canfor and i bet they would gladly move where you want them too. Until then quit whining.

Not whining. Just trying to survive. Greatest people I know have worked for the pulp mill. Not the people, not the problem, just the location. They make lots in profit, they can move without my dollar. Just away from the bowl.

"Let's see, with every major employer shut down over Christmas"

Huh? I think you have neglected to consider the reality of where people are employed in PG:

http://www.initiativespg.com/Site/Downloads/Documents/july08_major%20employers%20list.pdf

Happy reading!

Good lord! Move the mills? Do you have any idea how many millions that would take - it would be a lot cheaper for you to move. That is so unrealistic. Someone posted that they thought Canfor: "Here I thought they were in the business of making the product that they produce." Yah dude, to make money! PG made the mistake in the 60's to build where they did, "too bad, so sad", it's a bit too late now. I have been here my whole life and quite frankly I don't even notice it unless it is really bad. That mill has and still is supporting 100's of families (including mine, now and when I was growing up). PG was first a "mill town" and those mills might not be going anywhere for a very long time, so lets be realistic about this and not post ridiculous notions.

The main issue of the election was air quality.
NMG suggested checking major employers of Prince George so I did that. Canfor Pulp employs 1200 people out of 15,697.

Main issue was air quality? News to me. Moving the pulp mills is the most idiotic idea I have ever heard. Lamb, you need to rethink that one.

PG has a diverse workforce. That initiatives document does a fairly good job showing that. But there are some missing employees on that list.

Where is the Husky refinery?
What about FMC?
What about Winton Global?
What about Excel Trucking?
What about DHL/Purolator?
What about all the Banks/Credit Unions?

What we should realize is that our City should have an air quality plan that has a better balance for it's citizens than what exists now. With the new City Council, my hope is that they realize "the smell of money" is making us sick!!

Industries that pollute shouldn't be located right next door to where we live. We have a big country and a bit of breathing room just makes logical sense.

Canfor employees a lot more than 1200 people. They also hire contractors as well as the wages the workers earn employ more people in this town than you can shack a stick at. From grocery stores to car lots to shoe stores to fast food workers. Canfor employees 2/3 of this town through the wages it pays out. Shut down the mills and watch this town die.

Thank you for saving me the time to type that doneright - you nailed it

I didn't think I was being "cynical"?

Was just lifting up the tail on your old hobby horse to make your ride a little more interesting. Heehee!

"bowzone_mikey on November 19 2008 4:31 PM

nice... Canfor wont hafta pay the stupid OT rates that is normally paid ...

triple time on x-mas,boxingday and in the case of Paper machine new years day ... probally saved 1/2 million dollars"

Is this guy for real.....are half the responses on this page for real. There is no triple time. It is time and a half for everyone on X-mas eve, boxing day and FOR EVERYONE IN THE MILLS on New Year's. Doubletime on X-mas day. God, a little knowledge in an idiot's hand's......

I work at this place and I know what is going on. For the good of the workers is the main story in the paper, to accomodate the holidays. No one wants a curtailment, it means less money for us all. We are allowed to put vacation and/or bank time for these coming weeks, and thank God for that or I would be one of those people testing the limits of the food bank.

Husky is making a mistake staying up and running while the pulp mills are down IMO. Especially if we have a few bad air days... lets hope. IMO Husky is the main polluter in PG and not the pulp mills.

Also its a three paycheck month basically so better than in a two check month....

People need to realize that it would be cheaper to keep the mills running straight through Christmas than to shut them down.
They are shutting them down to affect a market correction; that means there is a glut of product on the market/on inventory and the prices are beginning to slump due to a slackening in demand. All the pulp mills in B.C. and some in Alberta will be shut down for the same period, to reduce inventory. The overtime cost to run through a stat' holiday is miniscule compared to the cost of waking the slumbering giant after ten days of rest.
metalman.

Papermaker, do you make paper? Cause back when I was making paper at PG Pulp, superstats were 2hrs call time 8 hours overtime, 4hours double time (by banking the last 4) 12 hour floater and 8 hours stat pay. Thats 42 hours pay for 12 hours work - do the math thats triple time and half for working the superstat.

Thank you Mercenary... I couldn't have said it better myself!

Greetings Yama. Me and my hobby horse want to know if you are buying dinner for four through the S.A. They have a coupon in the Citizen if you are interested.

Typed too fast... Sorry for the spelling.

Peace

All of you who are dependent on the pulpmils I have a message in case you havent noticed. Yes PG is dependent on the pulp mills Its not about moving the mills or colosing them down. Its about corporate rsponsability.

Canfor and the refinery have and are making millions in profit that goes to the share holders. So why cant they start cleaning up their act and give us good air quality. In a recent report there are many who die each year because of poor air quality.

It is not the weiner roast or back yard buring that gives us poor air quality. It is the provincial government that needs to clean up the air in our city. People are scared to rock the boat and think that we have to endure this air quality because its the smell of money.

Cheers

Dont build a city in a bowl. Just ask Mexico.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Mexico_City_Polution.jpg

bridge "..Canfor and the refinery have and are making millions in profit that goes to the share holders..."

We are the shareholders, and collectively, we get more out of the mills than the shareholders. The problem is not very many of us shareholder are willing or able to see a reduction in our standard of living. That's the problem. You have to convince everyone to lower their expectations and what they spend.

Then you will get "cleaner" air. I'll bet lots of folks will be switching to wood heat like my folks did to live with a lower standard of living, and that was how they survived. Oops there goes the air again!

Papermaker good to see you have holidays saved...something I wish my husband had.
We went and got a loan yesterday (mostly for kids for xmas instead of all bills,no pay, no xmas) but soon things will be fine again. They always are. For the record I wish the pulpmills didn't stink/pollute. Maybe one day that will change too. Very hopeful this girl is.

Yama, I am not a share holder and if you are you have a lot more money then I do. When I talk about share holders I have Mr Jim Pattison in mind. And above all a corporation does not require share holder. If you thnk about it its all smoke and mirrors.

I guess you probably would not read any of John Kenneth Galbriaths books but in his book Economics and the Public Purpose you will understand were I'm coming from. It will explain to you the "operating sysetem" and the "executive system"and how our corporation operate today.

Cheers

ok ..For those that lose there heads and cant see beyond their nose .... My comment was in jest ..a jab toward the Vancouver Managment of Canfor Because I know for a fact it has nothing to do with the Mngt staff in PG. What Vancouver dont realize is that it will get cold here (probally) yet all 3 of the pulp mills will be totally shut down ...the steam plant wont be running so the building will freeze and probally blow a line or two or three ...winter time period is a stupid time to curtail ... but those dates were specifically choosen to save the wages of the numourous stats that fall in a short time to make the bottom line look better. But in the long run I personally think it will cost Canfor more by shutting down than it would to keep going thru

geeze I thought the CEP and PPWC were way better than My Union and I get 2.5 time on X-mas day ... so tell me Paperworker .. You get called in on OT for x-mas day (cause someone wants it off and it needs to be coverd) whats the rate?

Ta Bridge, I have entered John Kenneth Galbraith into my reading list.

ok ..For those that lose there heads and cant see beyond their nose .... My comment was in jest ..a jab toward the Vancouver Managment of Canfor Because I know for a fact it has nothing to do with the Mngt staff in PG. What Vancouver dont realize is that it will get cold here (probally) yet all 3 of the pulp mills will be totally shut down ...the steam plant wont be running so the building will freeze and probally blow a line or two or three ...winter time period is a stupid time to curtail ... but those dates were specifically choosen to save the wages of the numourous stats that fall in a short time to make the bottom line look better. But in the long run I personally think it will cost Canfor more by shutting down than it would to keep going thru

geeze I thought the CEP and PPWC were way better than My Union and I get 2.5 time on X-mas day ... so tell me Paperworker .. You get called in on OT for x-mas day (cause someone wants it off and it needs to be coverd) whats the rate?

"Canfor employees a lot more than 1200 people. They also hire contractors as well as the wages the workers earn employ more people in this town than you can shack a stick at. From grocery stores to car lots to shoe stores to fast food workers. Canfor employees 2/3 of this town through the wages it pays out. Shut down the mills and watch this town die"

Sorry, but there is no way that the multiplier effect of a couple of mills is all that is required to build a city the size of Prince George. If that were the case, Vanderhoof would have 25,000 people living there, the Fort would be about 15,000, Chetwynd and Mackenzie would be 30,000 and Quesnel and Williams Lake would be 40,000 each. That isn't to say that Canfor isn't a huge player (because it is), but to suggest that they "employ" 2/3rds of Prince George is ridiculous.

I can also assure you that the other major employers in Prince George hire contractors and that their employees spend money as well . . . employees that probably make as much or more than the average Canfor employee :)

The pulpmills are owned by Canfor Pulp (CPLP)- not Canfor. Jim Pattison sold all his shares in CPLP although Canfor owns 50.1% of CPLP. The Steam Plants will run during the outage to keep the mills warm and if the weather get to objectionable, the mills will not go down. The maintenance workers will miss a maximum of two days, the pulp workers a maximum of 6 shifts (72 hours). Paper will be down a full week longer.

Right on, GoodCitizen!

alot of things are bad for you but a paycheque is not one of them we do what we have to to get it.i have yet to see any owl petting leaf licking tree sittin hippie environmentalist show me or anyone how we can make a living. the world is in a ressesion canfor is not the only employer curtailing production west fraser just hides it better.please inform us how to make a living sorry moving a pulpmill is too expensive

Pulp mills run day to day with the wharehouse full to the brim. They dont let on this. However... If you lose a customer or 3 you are in ruff shape.

How bad is this economy gonna get?

Buy your kids paper for xmas and crap lots.


Here's hoping.