"the contractor is supposed to maintain the road to the level of City of Prince George gravel road standards"

Hmmmmmmmmm, are these standards, better than our paved road standards? The road conditions at the north end of the "old" Cameron Street Bridge, are no worse than a lot of streets we have to drive on to get to work Mr. Krause, ever think of that?? Oh seasoned council member!

Shouldn't throw rocks, when you live in a glass house!

How's the design and construction of the River Road 'flood protection works' coming along?

Same contractor, with a written agreement to complete by mid-February (2 months from now) at a fixed price of $2 million.

Better keep the arbitrator / lawyers on retainer.

Good point Moses, if this same contractor is not doing a good enough job maintaining River Road, how are they going to do on the flood Protection work if we are talking about the same road.

As far as it costing more, wasn't it the city's request to save a section of this bridge for the railway mueseum to the tune of $250,000.00. And now they are worried about extra costs.

Should it cost more, only if it is the city's fault. If it is taking longer because the contractor made some tacticle errors, than sorry mr. contractor you are holding the bag at the end of the day.

So does Surespan on the other bridge have to give some money back because they are 6 months ahead of schedule? Nope.

Who exactly declared the bridge unsafe, I don't remember that one. The bridge could have been used the entire time for light vehicle traffic and trucks told to use 5th.

Pretty easy to armchair criticize the contractor isn't it? Do any of you detractors have intimate knowledge of what is really going on at the Old Nechako Bridge job site? Or are you reacting to what the media reports and to others' comments? Remember that there is a critical shortage of skilled manpower these days, and that affects all levels that must be dealt with, from the engineering, to the suppliers, to most companys' own workforces. There has to be some consideration given to this problem, it is real, and it will be with us for the foreseeable future. It does not mean that any of us can get away with using that shortage as an excuse, indeed what it ends up causing is more work for the skilled, ask me, I know. Oh, and SZD, great idea, many would agree that the bridge could have been used for light traffic, but how on earth would you enforce the weight restriction 24/7?
metalman.

SZD. The City declared the bridge unsafe because of some rot on the North side of a span approx midway. At that time the City stated that the Bridge could be repaired for a Cost of $750,000.00 and with normal maintenance would be sufficient to handle the normal traffic flow for a considerable time into the future.

The Mayor (Kinsley) and some of his co-horts dedided it would be better to build a new bridge for the proposed cost of $6 Million. This number increased to $9 Million, and it now looks like it will increase to $12 Million.

Now that their ill conceived plan has gone to Hell, they are quick to blame other levels of Government, for delays in funding, even though they had no commitments from these levels of Government when they made the decision to go ahead with the new bridge. In addition they will blame the weather, the contractor and anything else other than themselves for making a stupid decision.

For $12 Million dollars we could have repaired the bridge and done the maintenance on it, plus keep it as a heritage bridge for the next 85 years.

There is no doubt that some people still think that Colin was a great Mayor and did a lot for the City, however if you look at our overall debt (probably $150 Million) and some of the fiasco's like the Co=Gen Plant, River Road, Cameron St Bridge, huge increases in the cost to run the City, huge increases in taxes, failure to keep roads at an acceptable level etc; they may want to re-consider. This guy travelled around as if he was Diamond Jim Brady, the only difference is Brady was a self made millionare, while Colin did it on taxpayers dollars.

Dont hold your breath for the completion date of June on this fiasco, as they still have a hell of a lot of work to do.

All Kinsley & Co have done is:
-destroy a heritage bridge
-keep logging trucks and other trucks on Carney, Fifth and the By-Pass
-waste our hard earned tax dollars on a bridge located in the wrong place
-and spin the public into believing it was necessary.

Add to that the City was told years ago by Ernie Obst that a bridge replacement in that area was not possible as the North side of the bridge was too "silty".

A few well placed sticks of dynamite with the proper protective covering and the bridge could be dismantled in a day or two.

Do any of you detractors have intimate knowledge of what is really going on at the Old Nechako Bridge job site?

It appears that Mr Bill Gaal dosent know whats going on as well. There were a number of questions put to him by council he was unable to answere.

And you wouldnt have to be a engineer to realize that the final cost of the bridge would be more then 9 million. That was an estimate we were given back in 04 hand here it is 08 there is a shortage of labour and other cost of construction have gone up through thr roof but the contract for the bridge is awarded at obsolete figure to a local contractor.

Whats wrong with that picture? It really dosent take much knowledge to see that we were fed a lot of air over the last three years. Wonder why Colin didnt stand for re-election.

cheers

"Remember that there is a critical shortage of skilled manpower these days, and that affects all levels that must be dealt with, from the engineering, to the suppliers, to most companys' own workforces. There has to be some consideration given to this problem, it is real, and it will be with us for the foreseeable future."

Not the taxpayers problem. The firm made the bid knowing the issues. They accept the risk to make money. Its simply their problem, not ours.

"Oh, and SZD, great idea, many would agree that the bridge could have been used for light traffic, but how on earth would you enforce the weight restriction 24/7?"

Whatever. Getting those trucks of Central, 5th and Carney is a huge issue. Them hammering on those roads and plugging up the works is a huge problem. Dont get me wrong as a former commuter from North Nechako to the downtown core a light usage bridge would have been useful but would have ignored a significant problem.

"Not the taxpayers problem. The firm made the bid knowing the issues. They accept the risk to make money. Its simply their problem, not ours."

Fair enough, but there's two sides to this. Lets say the company doing the upgrade goes bankrupt, or pulls out of the job or whatever and the site is abandoned. We'll have to find a new contractor and what will the cost the taxpayers then?

I was not necessarily defending IDL, or offering up excuses. My intention was to illuminate a very pertinent point; that of a critical shortage of skilled help. My comments were really directed toward people making statements such as;
"not the taxpayers problem. The firm made the bid knowing the issues. They accept the risk to make money. Its simply their problem, not ours"
Construction projects take time. Weather, and many other factors beyond human control can impact a schedule. Only Mike Holmes can be counted on to start and finish a project within one hour, including advertising breaks.
metalman.

Shortage of skilled workers is not the taxpayers problem, it is the contractors. All the contractors I know do not keep taking on projects if they do not know have the staff. This contractor has been late on other projects and yet they keep taking on new projects.

"Fair enough, but there's two sides to this. Lets say the company doing the upgrade goes bankrupt, or pulls out of the job or whatever and the site is abandoned. We'll have to find a new contractor and what will the cost the taxpayers then?"

Good point. Controlling cost should be the number 1 priority so if there is a scenario where it will cost more to go after the contractor then negotiations are in order. The City has likely retained a bond or something to reduce its exposure to these types of issues.

Metalman said:
My comments were really directed toward people making statements such as;
"not the taxpayers problem. The firm made the bid knowing the issues. They accept the risk to make money. Its simply their problem, not ours"

Why thank you for making an example of my comment, I am flattered.

I couldnt help but notice, though, that you offered no counter arguement. You do understand the risk-reward nature of business right? Any reward has risk, especially big ones.

"Construction projects take time. Weather, and many other factors beyond human control can impact a schedule."

Good insight!

With the city's involvement in infastructure projects like the Cameron street bridge, proposed PAC facility, energy plant, who needs a Federal Gov't stimulus package.
Heck, with our group down at city hall the folks in Ottawa will be calling PG for advice on how to spend money wisely.
Maybe we should have moved the old reaction ferry from Isle Pierre and placed it next to the Cameron street bridge. think of the historical significance. Colin could be the captain and some of the ex-councillors could be his crew.

Now your talking Resident.

Having a good degree of knowledge on the tendering of this contract, IDL is getting a bum rap if, (and I say IF),the city is attempting to penalize IDL for not completing the project on time.

Normally, a tender is awarded almost immediately after the tender closing date. In the case of the Cameron Street bridge the job was not awarded for a substantial period of time after the tender opening because the city (the owner of the project) decided to wait to get confirmation or rejection of government funding. This is the primary reason this project is coming late. 6 months late is questionable but it is entirely feasible that the start up delay pushed fair weather work into the winter and thus caused compounding delays.

What also happens when a tender award is delayed is that subcontractors hired by the general contractor are forced to move onto other projects - causing a domino effect in project timeline delays.

The bad guy in this whole scenario is the city - not the General Contractor - IDL.

As for cost overuns - If the city caused the delays and material, labor and direct/indirect costs escalate during the laps time to completion, the owner of the project has to pay due diligence to the problem that they created.\

I have intimate knowledge of one of the subcontracts of this project and I can guarantee that the price quoted to the general contractor for completion by Dec 31, 2008 will not be the same price as for completion by June 2009. Someone has to pay for the cost changes incurred in this timeline change and, if the cause of delay can be proven to be the owners doing then it is the owner that must pick up the tab.

Although I have no knowledge of the arbitration items between the two parties it's a fairly safe bet that time line delays as related to penalties and incurred costs is a big part of the conversation.

On a side note - was it ever reported that IDL has problems finding qualified trades or labor issues or is this just something that was assumed in this blog?

PS - The city did the right thing to delay the project. Could you imagine he fall out if they had moved ahead immediately after the tender opening and then received word they lost out on funding to the tune of millions of dollars?

You can't have it both ways. The city definitely acted in favor of the tax payer...so we get a bridge in June instead of December.

The way I see it is the city in their infinite wisdom hired a contractor that imho has no bridge building experience.
It's like hiring your accountant to re-roof your house.

Good call opine!

Finally someone with some with an educated opinion. It's funny how people can run with an idea before they know the facts behind it.

opine, a construction shedule typically has to submitted within seven days of the contract award. If there are delays with the start up than it should be delt with at the time of submission, if the contractor states he can do the job within the specified time than he is on his own regardless of his subcontractors shedule. It would be up to the general and his sub's to discuss their schedule prior to submission. How could this be our cities fault? It would appear to some of us that you are biased and defending a sinking ship.