I'd like to recommend a great book:

The Jugurthine War and the Conspiracy of Cataline - by Sallust

This is a good read because it is the play book for the 'war in Iraq' and the 'war on terror' as written by Sallust 2100 years ago. It is a great account of how the morality of the Roman republic was undermined leading into the era of dictators and eventually the Empire that destroyed everything Rome stood for.

The Jugurthine war was a war against the Numidian King Jugurthine, whom Rome enabled to power and then found out later it was a big mistake. Jugurthine bought off nearly every politician and nearly every politicians was willing to sell out Rome for the personal benefits that could be conferred by Jugurthine. After all the great patrician families were wiped out for the most part by Hannibal in his Italian wars, the leadership vacuum in Rome left the door wide open for corruption of the state especially in the idea of war plunder for profits. Without the Jugurthine war the future Roman dictator Sulla would never have become a person of note and Gaius Marius would have never reformed the Roman army from one of a noble class to one of mercenaries.

In the Conspiracy of Cataline it is the story of a 5th column of traitors operating in Rome following the Jugurthine war with a purpose to overthrow the empire for themselves from within. Led by a despicable character named Cataline aided by the likes of Julius Caesar (albeit behind the scenes from a distance, so as to keep the Roman Senate occupied while out of town) and the money lenders (who make their first impact on Rome) this group of traitors conspired to kill Cicero and Cato the Stoic (which they failed) and then claim sole power of Rome for their followers. The best part of this book is the fantastic speeches given in the Senate by Cicero directed at the traitors sitting in front of him expelling them and all their followers from Rome, as well as the eventual battle where every one of the followers of the conspiracy fought to the last man (40,000 of them) once they were met by the Roman army on the field (outside of Rome, thus good idea to expel them at the time rather then fight them in the city).

Its a fantastically insightful book on the geopolitics of state power, how a republic is destroyed, and how dictators and empires gain their power and there is nothing in history that parallels more with todays America then this epic moment in history. The speacches given throughout the book are some of the best that have ever been spoken in the history of oratory IMO.

For people that want to understand politics today this is a must read IMO.

Some other excellent books I would recommend that I've recently read in the last 6-months:

The March of the Ten Thousand - Xenophon (*****)
(Another epic story that IMO defined the change from the mindset of the late Bronze age to the world of conquest. Xenophon's changed the way all future generals thought. Without Xenophon I don't think we would have had the likes of Alexander the Great, Hannibal, and Julius Caesar in the centuries after the march of the 10,000 Greek mercenaries he led through the Persian Empire.

Julius Caesar - J.F.C. Fuller (****)
(All the geo-politics surrounding the life of Caesar including great stories like the time he was captured by pirates on his way back from Greece before joining the military in his 30's)

Hannibal: One Man Against Rome (*****)
(One of the most brilliant examples of a general in war in history and by far the greatest general that ever lived... and died of old age)

Caesar's Legion - Stephen Dando Collins (*****)
(Best book I've ever read... Ceasar 10th legion is one of the most amazing war stories in human history)

John Adams - David McCullough (*****)
(This was an epic story of one of the worlds greatest man ever. The spiritual founder of America and its ideals, the 2nd US president, and probably the 3rd most influential person in human history next only to Jesus and Socrates.)

The Peloponnesian War - Thucydides (*****)
(Amazing and fascinating account of the ancient Greek societies suicide through the 27-year war between the Peloponnesian's led by Sparta and the Allies of the Athenian empire. The book is full of inspirational war speeches that are out of this world in righteous idealism. For something written 2500 years ago Thucydides does a remarkable job of making it seem like a war to end the world as it was... was fought only yesterday.)

House of War The Pentagon and the Disastrous Rise of the American Power - James Carroll (*****)

Alaxander the Great and his Time - Agnes Savill (*****)

Six Armies in Normandy - John Keegan (****) (A ton on Canada's contribution and will make any Canadian proud of their country after reading this.)

Thermopylae: The Battle that Changed the World (battle of 300) - Paul Cartledge (****)

Worlds at War: 2500 Years of East vs West - Anthony Pagden (*****)

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire Vol 1, 2, &3 - Edward Gibbon (*****)

Sun Tsu - Art of War (***)

The Guns of August - Barbra W Tuchman (*****) (first month prior to and after the start of WW1)

I thought this was interesting in that in Britain you are no longer allowed to defend your own home anymore from intruders. Coming to Canada soon....?

------------------------------

The British called - They want their guns back!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

Looking forward to next Fridays "Book Review by Eagleone". Maybe some less violent books next time.

Damn near ran into a bicycle rider this morning riding down the middle of the road off of Tabor. No lights, no relfectors didn't see him until I was almost on top of him. Real "bright" Come on fellas, if you want to ride your bicycle in the dark make yourselves visible.

Eagleone, get a life....period

I don't think people want to see this sort of thing on the "Friday Free For All"

Hello, I think the "Friday Free For all" was supposed to be for local issues, my God man, give it a rest. But if you must, please try and keep it simple!

For everyone else, enjoy the weather, winter is finally here. January / February, mostly the coldest in Prince George, at least in years past. Young people today comment to me about how cold it is. I say to them, "what will you do when winter gets here". They whine when it is -10c, and I tell them, when I was a kid here, it use to warm up to -30c

Good time to get close to the one(s) you love, and stay warm. Throw another "green log" on the fire.

Hope everybody is healthy, and have a great weekend. Stay warm, no matter what!

Taxi

I would rather have snow, at least you can get outside and shovel it, how can we shovel the cold away except like you say stay inside and put that log in the fireplace. Or in our case fill the pellet stove, it lasts for about 7 hours nice. Have a great day everyone.

Talking about books, I would like to suggest The Gutenberg project (http://www.gutenberg.org) which has literally tens of thousands of out of copyright free books online. For anyone interested in reading the World's literature it is an absolute must.

Damn near ran into a bicycle rider this morning riding down the middle of the road off of Tabor. No lights, no relfectors didn't see him until I was almost on top of him.
Idiot was on 5th near Carney at 7:25. Riding down the middle of the lane. Cer in front of me almost ran over him. The biker gave him the wave (1 finger). Guy will be warm six feet under.

Eagleone, you are obviously a 'serious' reader. My favourites tend to be local (B.C, Canadian) history, somewhat lighter fare compared to the volumes written of events long ago and far away. A/Crider,
too right! Anyone brave and tough enough to ride a bicycle in this weather should have a better sense of self preservation in my opinion.
metalman.

Bicycles should be banned from the streets in the winter. They can not be controled in the snow and ice. I almost hit one a couple of weeks ago. The bike slid right out from under the guy and went right into my lane. Close call. Motorists should not have to be held accountable for accidents caused by these eco/enviro speedo wearing idiots that think they control the roads in the winter. I've got no problem with bikers in the spring,summer and fall when conditions permit.

Thank you Eagletone for recommending some literature. With the way politics and economy are going in todays world, I think its time we all take a good look at the worlds history, and maybe this time learn something from it. I love to see the same vicious circle come to an end.
Studying history will help us understand our future. Too bad more people (myself included) do not spend enough time understanding.

giterdun writes..."Motorists should not have to be held accountable for accidents caused by these eco/enviro speedo wearing idiots that think they control the roads in the winter."

Motorists are NOT held accountable for incidents caused by "anyone".

While we are on the subject of books I recommend the following: Churchill, Hitler And The Unnecessary War (by Patrick J. Buchanan). I had to order it from Cole's as no store has it on the shelf. It's a real eye opener.

Motorists are not held legally liable for accidents cause by others, however most of us would suffer emotionally from running over some kid that slips on the ice and slides under your car on the ice.

I was one of the first people in PG to ride a bike in the winter. At that time I made my own studded tires with stove bolts.
When both wheels are studded, i had way more traction and control then pedestrians on the sidewalk and vehicles with studded winter tires. Now you can go to Koop's and buy them.
If that rider was out without a light and/or high visibility apparel, then he is a moronic idiot.
Besides, riding a bike, regardless of weather, is green and cheap transportation. You don't hear cyclist complaining about the price of gas.

As for accountability, investigators look for fault and will charge a cyclist just as quickly as a motorist.

I like the idea of sharing reading. Perhaps we could have a "reader's corner"?

diplomat ...

I think it is interesting to read books of recent historic events that one can compare to other information that is still available, much of which resides in our own minds from past images and words created at the time they happened or very shortly thereafter.

They remind me that writings of much older books on history are even more subjective. Many are more fables than anything else. Sort of like docudramas on screen.

Imagine a book written by Chenay on the great USA battle in Iraq and that being the only one to survive 1,000 years from now.

ammonra ... thank you for that link. A great one. Like spending time at the library going through books to see which ones I want to check out to take and read.

Wow,the prices of gas.What gives,what makes us so special that we get GOUGED like we this??the true price should be around 59cents,not the $95 buck a barrel we are paying now.

The 'true' price of gas should be whatever the market will bear. Complaining about gas prices is a waste of time and effort.

Thanks to ammonra, my first visit was to an on line book about Hannibal.

From the book on Hannibal by George Henty written more than 100 years ago:

“Fortunately there is no lack of authentic material from which to glean the incidents of the struggle. Polybius visited all the passes of the Alps some FORTY YEARS AFTER THE EVENT, and conversed with tribesmen who had witnessed the passage of Hannibal, and there can be no doubt that his descriptions are far more accurate than those of Livy, who wrote somewhat later and had no personal knowledge of the affair.”

Imagine having to write the history of the Vietnam war by visiting Vietnam 40 years later and speaking to the locals and then having that writing, or several others like it, be the story that is handed down about the Vietnam war.

Sort of something like the "true" price of a 50lb bag of flour.

Sorry, but I no longer read anything that Eagleone posts on this forum. I find his writings to be long winded and depressing. Geez, I darn near broke my scroll button trying to get by his manifesto this morning. The rules for this forum should be changed to Keep it Clean, Keep it Legal and KEEP IT SHORT!!

Enjoy the beautiful sunshine today everyone and have a nice day.

Thanks for the book list. Although not my genre, I find it interesting to see what others are reading. I'm reading the latest from Farley Mowat (how I love that man.)
The book is "Bay of Spirits". The following is a link to an interview with him regarding the book. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=WB3IQMZm7CQ

or just google "an interview with Farley Mowat" youtube.

Wow,the prices of gas.What gives,what makes us so special that we get GOUGED like this??the true price should be around 59cents,not the $95 buck a barrel we are paying now.

Gus, I couldn't agree more! History looks different depending on how much time has gone by and after raw emotions have died down. As well, some records have been kept locked up by governments (perhaps to protect the innocent but mostly the guilty while they are still alive) often for 50 years or more.

Everyone give eagle1 a break please! He often posts valid points, imho. But they could be a bit shorter, to be sure.

"Atlas Shrugged" should be mandatory reading in schools.

Stop drinking T-Ho coffee, it isn't that good.

That is all.

Regarding motorists and accountability:

This message is for the piece of crap that slammed his pick up truck into my mother’s white car, while she was in it, and then took off.

She is a senior citizen who was on her way to pick up her grandchildren, and pulled over to the side of the road to give you some room, because she saw you coming and driving way too fast. You managed to hit her anyway, slamming on your brakes and spinning, smashing in the front drivers’ side and door. Did you stop to see if she needed help? Did you stop to make sure she was ok? Did you call someone to come and help her? No, you didn’t, I have no idea what you were doing that day that you weren’t supposed to be doing, and I really don’t care, but leaving a person, especially a senior citizen, alone in her car, unable to get out because the door is smashed up and in a total state of shock just takes the cake. This was no simple bumper crusher – you really could have killed her. You are a coward. You have absolutely no shred of decency. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I’m sure you’re not.

This happened so quickly and unfortunately, there just aren’t very many descriptive details to provide. A large black or dark blue pick up truck, maybe a couple of years old, driven by a man in his late 30’s or so, dark hair, clean cut.

I know I’m probably dreaming, but hopefully somebody knows something, will see the damage and figure it out, and report it.

There…that’s my rant. Thanks

diplomat, since you mention Churchill and Hitler I was on the history channel last night and they had a program , "King and Emnpire" on the Battle at Passchendaele in which sixteen thousand you men died.

It is mind boggling to think that today we still have armed conflicts between nations. Big difference is today we have men and women dieing for King and Empire.

I am currently reading "Soldat" a recount in the life of a german officer during World War II. It is interesting how even the german people had been decieved and led to war.

Remember, He who dosent learn from history will repeat history.

Nice change of pace for once on this sight.

Cheers

I have just printed off two copies of the sermon delivered for the inauguration. It is good reading and is only two pages. If anyone is interested you can google it
"Sermon: Harmonies of Liberty"

I had the pleasure of meeting "Eagleone" off of this site and he's a true sweetheart. He purchased a book and mailed it to me for xmas, "Getting to Yes." Sorry Eagleone had to share that. Reading that book reminded me of the great chats I used to have with lmorg. ;)

If anyone was listening to Ben and Michelle this morning on the radio show the Spirit of the North guest mentioned talk about the colon and so on. Well it reminded me of a book I purchased from amazon.com before xmas. "Living The Law of Attraction." The short personal stories in it are good but there was one great one on page 17 titled "Winning Thinking." by a successful lawyer who was staring at deaths door. We all can read this and learn from it. Take care of your health now! Be your own doctor. Anyone feeling grumpy, stressed and run down honestly yoga helps.

:)

I think that the unusual slant to the postings today is a welcome diversion. Discussions about books and authors almost made me forget this is a PG board.

But then someone said "by these eco/enviro speedo wearing idiots" and WHAM. We are all back in Prince George.

Got to fire up the 1 ton gas guzzler that would absolutely not pass aircare and drive 30km round trip for some smokes now. "Hey Flo... we need any beers?"

There sure are a lot of book readers here obsessed with war and it's related BS.

We all grow up learning about the worlds history and the wars that have been fought here.

Why would you spend your lives reading all that crap?

Don't go saying Lest we forget.

No one will ever forget the past and all the horror associated with our wars.

Wouldn't it be somewhat healthier for the soul to read about birds.

I have to agree with you, Lostfaith. I couldn't imagine being so obsessed about wars, but everybody needs a hobby, right?

I collect little figurines made out of different pastas (Sorry Seinfeld fans), but I couldn't imagine making almost every post about my hobby. Nothing in my life consumes me as much as war consumes some on here.

acrider,
you are right about cyclists riding around with no lights.if we drive our cars with no lights on we will get a ticket and/or fined.my point is,shouldn't the police be pulling these people over and at least explaining to them that they should be more visible to drivers who by the way pay insurance and gas taxes etc to provide the roads that cyclists use.

Tim's coffee is rather crappy, but then again being there is a social thing. While driving around town today I couldn't help but think that the Tims at 15th and Ospika almost wasn't because of the residents figuring that if they put a Tims there it would ruin the neighbourhood. Then I thought back in stages about the townhouse project a Davis and Ospika. That wasn't wanted. Then some people didn't want a Moxies where it is now. Some people whined about the potential surplus traffic down Malispina with a new subdivision at the end. And development at 5th and Tabor. And the latest being the side of the hill facing the Fraser off Cowert Road. Never ending stories, eh? Some I missed?. Who says we aren't pro-development?

Some people are obsessed with war - hence the never ending presentation of war movies on the movie channels and on history TV. Some is fact, most is complete fiction.

Some people comment on books that they have personally found to be interesting, including some that are about historical events.

Are they consumed about war? Perhaps they just want to be informed and read a lot of other books as well.

Are the people who always complain here about the price of gas totally consumed by the issue? Is it their hobby?

Who knows.

True enough, diplomat, all I can go on is Eagle's 'reading list' and about 90% of the content of his posts.

I think in Eagle's case, it goes a step beyond 'wanting to be informed', but that's just my take on it.

I am like, totally consumed man.
metalman.

another day above ground!! yup it is all good!!

have a fanfreakintastic weekend everyone

PEACE

Harbinger said: "Some people whined about the potential surplus traffic down Malispina with a new subdivision at the end." Would it be the people that moved into the new subdivision are now erecting signs to tell the traffic to slow down.
He also said, " And the latest being the side of the hill facing the Fraser off Cowert Road. Never ending stories, eh?" Both of these "developments destroyed trail systems and the urban forest that was in place. You better hope the land doesn't start sliding away into the Fraser. Check the little creek at the bottom of the cleared area off Malispinia to see what weathering and erosion can do to that land.
And he said, "Some I missed?. Who says we aren't pro-development?" See how the sales are flying off the wall for the development off Tyner Blvd.

Lost faith
No we will never forget.

To read about the causes of war
Might just help to prevent another one
I appreciate Eagleone and the other posters who care enough to share.

astro wrote; "See how the sales are flying off the wall for the development off Tyner Blvd."
But those lots and about 150 others are there waiting for when things turn around in PG!!

Bicyclers aren't required to carry liability insurance, so what happens if a bicycler causes an accident that results in property damage and/or personal injury to someone else?

Earlier in the week I said that I had registered with the national DO Not Call list, it looks like that was a MISTAKE.
The following headline is from the CBC homepage.

"Registered with the do-not-call list? Expect more calls, says consumer watchdog
number is being broadcast to the four winds."


It seems that the CRTC sells the registry list online. Apparently in Toronto, you can get 600,000 names for $50.

For more on this see the CBC homepage.
I say class action! The CRTC is a joke anyway.

I am reading an interesting book myself! From Good to Great by Jim Collins. I think Eagleone may enjoy it :)

Happy Friday!

Just pasted it on my reading document file tinyapplecork plus the others!

Hey folks isn't it nice to hear Michelle on with Ben. She's so passionate about this community.She is another PG treasure.
Eagle thank you for the book recommendations. I am sure that Heide is right about you.
One more thing..runner made me promise him that I would not drive while on a cell phone. I think we should all try to adhere to that.

keep warm folks...

OMG

OMI

Get a room sheesh ;-)

We all grow up learning about the worlds history and the wars that have been fought here.

Why would you spend your lives reading all that crap?

Don't go saying Lest we forget.

This morning the tone on this site had changed but it seems the smart asses just dont go away.

I am a infantry vetren as are many in our area. We will never forget the wars that we were in. We believed that it was an honour to serve ones country. And we have this jerk telling us "dont go saying lest we forget. I guess we shoud do away with rememberance day as well.

You are an ass lostfaith.

Cheers

Nice to see people taking an interest in history, whether it's that of ancient Rome, or what's happened in more modern times. There's a lot to be learned from what has gone on before us, and I think Eagle has done us a service in recommending books he thought were particularly well written concerning those eras, people, and subjects he, and no doubt many others, find interesting.

Lets don't forget the biggest war novel of all, the bible!

It would be banned as 'hate literature' if it were written today.

Let's also not forget that one of the main reasons for the downfall of ancient Rome was 'inflation'. Something that has destroyed every civilization all down through history wherever it's taken root. And here we have governments in our country and the USA trying to induce it through proposals for massive infrastructure spending. Maybe those in government should read some history. Both ancient and modern. For the path they're about to embark us on is going to lead us straight into another war.

I agree my book review was too lengthy. I'm into history right now trying to start at the beginning and work my way up. It so happens that a lot of what is written as history comes in the form of reporting on violence and the intrigues around it. I like when I can to read it first hand through translations which doesn't help. I could have recommended things like Tactitus which I also read, but that is going way over the top in violence and has no moral lessons that I can see. The ones I did recommend I think had direct impacts on the flow of history through the ancient times and thus were the most important books to read to understand that flow. I think its important to understand the cycles of power struggles the world goes through to understand how the world we live in today came to be. My next books I'm looking at will be more in the middle ages, and unfortunately they had a lot of violence back then too. I intend to read about Charlemange and the history of Britain and possibly some Russian history next.

I figure if people have a good book to recommend then thats great... maybe not so many as I recommended though... lol.

Ammonra, thanks for the link. There are a few I'm trying to find that are out of print, so maybe I might find them there.

Heidi, its great to hear you liked the book. I think its the most important book for anyone planning a business to read...

Metalman, I got a book I picked up called 'Arctic Front - defending Canada in the far north' about the challenges of Arctic sovereignty thats a good read. Its on sale right now too I think at Overwaitea.

No worries. The posts regarding books sparked some interest and debate, also they were a refreshing change from the usual blather about potholes and gas prices.

Socred its a lot more complicated than inflation in ancient times. They ran on a gold and silver based economy, so I'm not sure where the inflation comes in... but they had a devastating plague that finished off the empire IMO among many other calamities.

The plague of 541-574 wiped out like 80% of the Roman world population in many places depopulating whole regions of people with it. Rome itself almost disappeared dropping to like 10,000 people from a high of 1.5 million. That signaled the definitive end of their world.

Leading up to the plague was a failure of leadership... a failure to implement succession planning (huge failure)... and above all a failure to motivate solders with state values and pay, rather than participation in the plunder.

A good read on the plague is Justinian's Flea by William Rosen, which describes the most calamitous time in recorded human history. The last thing they worried about was inflation... we still to this day haven't a clue what it was that caused the disease that did in the Roman world... speculation is that it was carried in grain shipments throughout the Roman world.

Diplomat, I read that one too. I agree a real eye opener.

Gus I agree with your point totally. Xenophon is a classic example of that him being the hero in his own story and him writing what he inferred the other generals would have said in their speeches had he been their to record it himself. As it was it made for a much better book with him writing all the speeches, because that is what makes it all worth reading int he first place. One has to assume their is some fable to all their stories.

Gus, Hannibal is the greatest story in history from the perspective of a general. I actually think he was the good guy (or at least he had a compelling cause). Unfortunately what made him such a good general is he left no traces of his plans and everything we know of him comes from his enemies who wrote his history. Only Socrates can be compared in that regard having not written anything not even a word down himself and yet lasted into history 23-2500 years later.

Thanks Junco.

Above link is the Martin Luther King "I have a dream" speech. I saw it for the first time only this last week and thought it great.