What other measure of success would be meaningful? No tests at all? Just put in the motions, every passes, and goes to college and UNBC to become a doctor?

Kind of like we will measure and pressure the smart people, but the rest can get by on Dummies For Everything. No need to test the majority of people, they don't matter?

Just more of BCTF holding our kids for ransom. Must be an election coming up soon, BCTF is dragging the kids around again.

There has to be some type of testing to hold the teachers accountable for their actions. Every parent who has gone thru the school system knows that there are some good teachers who really care and then there is the deadwood who are only there for a paycheck. The education system has to be tested in some form. Every job has one. We the parents have to have a way of saying if you can't or won't teach our kids for kind for the money and benifits you are getting. Then get another job. Teachers are a different breed of people. The average person could not do the job that they do. So thank you to the teachers who really do care and are making a difference. But its really sad when the class average is in the low 60's. Then its a problem. What can the parent do, can't fire them, can't get another teacher,complain and it hurts the child. the union protects them. There has to be a way of cleaning out the deadwood. Our kids deserve that its not their fault.

Of course the teachers don't like the FSA tests. It actually might expose where students aren't learning as well as others. As a parent, I want to know how my child's school is doing compared to other schools, and the FSA test is the only way to have any idea.

There are numerous types of tests that go on throughout the year. The difficulty with the FSA is the value of the tests, when are they implemented, and, of course, the absolutely insane and worthless rankings. The BCTF has said for years that the tests are not helpful for students or parents. Most who have stdied the test agree.

The issue is not about teachers not wanting to do more work. The issue is that the tests are generally a waste of time and that the Fraser Institute's misuse of them is not good for anyone. Teachers want to teach the curriculum and ensure students are learning. The FSA tests take valuable time away from that for a test of questionable value.

The BCTF have been asking the government for years to re-examine the nature of the tests, but the government refuses to even consider it. While I am not really in favour of the manner by which the BCTF has gone about this, I do recognize that this is happening because the govenement has continued to refuse to look at the worth of giving these tests or the manner by which they use these tests.

This is not a case of the BCTF holding our kids for ransom. Its about ensuring that the time teachers have with students is valuable time. The FSA tests, as they exist now, are not good for students, for parents, or for anyone except the Fraser Institute. Is this why we assess our students-to ensure that a right wing think tank can use them for political purposes? If we're keeping the tests, let's use them to help our kids. That's the idea behind this action by the BCTF. If you're upset about it, place the blame for it where it belongs-at the feet of the Ministry, and Minister, of Education.

there needs to be a way that students and teachers can be assested as to what is learned. I am tired of hearing of kids going into college and university that don't know how to read or who need to upgrade their math skills yet who have graduated from high school. I do not understand what teachers have against tests unless they are afraid of the results being used against them. Upgrading courses to those students who have just graduated is a waste of time and money.

It doesn't matter about holding the teachers accountable as there is no way to have them change any how. If it is a bad teacher, they are around until they retire. There is no mechanism to force improvement upon them any how. Now that mandatory retirement has been removed the only way parents can get rid of a bad teachers is hope for death, instead of just waiting for retirement.

these tests are just to set budget allocations for schools. Really the schools don't care about the true performance of the students. To back up that statement, they will not fail or hold back any students. They will apply more resources for challenged students rather than have a student fail. This way, the school board budget remains relatively accurate for all projections through all grades.

housewifefiremen - What's sad about the average class mark being an average mark? Isn't this the entire point of the grading system?

i have to agree with most of the posters on here that the teachers don't want to see these results. I have had three children go through the school system in P.G. and I don't even have to use my toes, I can count on two hands the amount of good teachers the three combined have had. Most of them are there to put in their day and collect their paycheque. Proof of this is the fact they have a pro-D day the first week of the year, after just having two months vacation. As long as the student can get through to the next grade, that is good enough for most teachers. One teacher even told me that teaching a student correct spelling was a bad idea. She said the student would not be able to express themself properly if she kept telling them they had made a mistake.

Duffer, Teachers don't set the PD days-teachers make recomendations to the board, who make the final decision. And for the past number of years, during the times when we had the 2 week spring break (again, a decision made by the school board, NOT teachers), teachers went to TWO PD days before school began. No one seemed to complain then.

Please try to remember, teachers are not opposed to testing. Instead, they question the value of these particular tests. And they are opposed, as are every other group involved in education, to the garbage that the ranking system the Fraser Institute publishes every year. The ranking system has been completely discredited by everyone who knows anything about education or statistics.

Whats the harm in posting Jonny's grades? What do teachers (or students) have to hide???

I don't see teachers suggesting which other test would be appropriate, just that they are opposed to 'this' test. If they don't like this test, which one would fit the bill?

Don't get me started on PD days, I've heard from some teacher friends of mine what goes on at some of these PD days and it's not impressive to say the least.

Kids are coming out of grade 12 almost illiterate right now.
They can barely read and they can't write anything that is legible.
The government knows that, but they chose to do nothing about it.
Bring back the 3 "R"s and serious exams.
Back to basics is the only way to fix it.
Ban cell phones and ipods and baseball hats in class.
Teachers do not teach anymore,they simply do what the teaching plan tells them to do and nothing more.
They have become babysitters.
And oh ya...get rid of Shirley Bond!

There is a lack of misinformation out there on pro-d days. When pro-d days were added to the teachers contract it added days to their work year. The number of instructional days did not decrease, but the number of days per year a teacher works increased. Teachers did this so that they would have days throughout the year to learn and become better teachers for all of our children.

Mr.PG. As for your teacher friend, there are bad apples in every profession: bad cops, bad postal workers, bad cooks, and bad whatever it is you do too.

The problem with FSA's being used for rankings is that I don't need a test to tell you Southridge is going to beat Quinson. Does Southridge have better teachers, or does it have parents with more time and money? Furthermore, of course Private Schools are going to do better than public. On average who has more involved parents, someone paying for their child's education or someone just sending them down the street?

In regards to Andyfreeze and others saying students are getting dumber. This is a fallacy often spouted by the ignorant who don't take the time to really look into anything and would rather spout off what they perceive to be the truth. Students have actually been getting smarter by about 3 points per decade. It is called the Flynn Effect if you care to actually learn something and not simply make erroneous statements as if they were fact.

Funny how the Fraser Institute is mentioned so many times as the main point of friction. It's not the test, it's the Fraser Institute?

The problem is the Fraser Institute is rubbing the BCTF nose in the test results, and that is what the BCTF is really whining about. The left wing BCTF doesn't like the right wing Fraser Institute.

Once again it is not about the children, but all about the BCTF. The BCTF is not above using the kids to fight anyone that is critical of the BCTF. Why would the BCTF want to be tested and measured?

Its because the Fraser Institute's ranking system is so badly done. There is not one serious scholar on any side of the political fence that says the procedures used by the Fraser Institute are valid. The ranking system is absolute garbage.

And Yama, I've invited parents into my classroom for almost 25 years-drop in any time and find out what's going on in your child's class. If you want to know if your child is getting a good education, go look for yourself. That's a valid measure. Every teacher I have ever worked with has never been afraid to be held accountable for the work they do. And they do excellent work. But if my work is going to be measured, let's do it with a valid marking system, not the crap that comes out of the Fraser Institute. That's where your target should be, not the BCTF.

Is this FSA test put out by the Fraser Institute? Is this the problem? Or is the fact the results available to the public the problem?

Thank you for saying I should be proud of myself for the way our kids turned out, I am.

I'm curious. If so many people here think that teaching is so easy to do and that teachers are never held accountable, why are more of you not teaching?

I'm curious. If so many people here think that teaching is so easy to do and that teachers are never held accountable, why are more of you not teaching?

I'm curious. Where did you read anyone who said teaching was easy?