L E T    'E R     R I P !!!

About the air quality, we should be accustomed to walking out of the house with fork and knife in hand just to get to the car. The city emphasises {wood smoke} well give us a good grant to buy an energy efficent wood burning stove and not spent our tax dollars on stupid things put the money where their mouth is. The blame is also on the pulpmills and refinery for not having good filter systems. You go into town and how many cars are parked just idoling. Gas costs too much we do not do it.We live in a valley and we have to do our part also, this pollution is going nowhere anytime soon. In the mean time I will just keeping on using my fork and knife to eat the air.

As a former resident of Victoria,what a contrast in air quality.Between the pulpmill and refinery how many woodstoves and cars equals the amount of polution spewed daily from these 2 industries

What is up at Rolling Mix this a.m.? I see and hear that they are locked out, but whats behind it?

Just wondering.....does Victoria still spew raw sewage into the Pacific?

yes they do yellow shovel

Prince George still has a number of industrial plants permitted under the old level A emission permit of 230 mg/DSCM. If these plants were to upgrade with the installation of a ESP this level could easily be reduced to 50 mg/DSCM. Next to nothing has been heard about the local pellet plant and if they are meeting current emission targets and as previous published what is the status of the secondary pollution equipment that was promised to be installed to bring this plant into compliance with MOE regulations. It seems the city of PG and the MOE are willing to turn a blind eye to save a few jobs while sacrificing the health of many.
To blame a few wood stoves for the air quality is just not acceptable.
There are a number of industrial wood burning plants in PG permitted for the 230 mg/DSCM that consume between 5000 and 12,000 pounds per hour. A wood stove might consume 10 pounds per hour.
Let's blame the wood stoves when the major sources of pollution have been adressed.

Regarding raw sewage,Hmmm.Choose between swimming or breathing

Obituary in the London Times

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has
been with us for many years.
No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago
lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:
Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
Why the early bird gets the worm;
Life isn't always fair; and maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more
than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in
charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but
overbearing regulations were set in place.
Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a
classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and
a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his
condition. Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing
the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly
children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent
to administer sun lotion or an Aspirin to a student; but could not inform
parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and
criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar
in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to
realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her
lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his
wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.

He is survived only by his 4 stepbrothers:
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Interesting post Resident....easier to bully the little guy than battle the big.

salsa...ask a fish they have to do both in that spew.

Victoria gets to pretend that the raw sewage isnt an issue because most of the impacts are externalized to the entire Pacific Ocean. They conveniently ignore the increase in Red Tide that is likely related to being one of very few cities in a developed country that dumps untreated sewage. At least the AQ in PG gets attention from citizens.

Four days out of five and I can't see the sun.
What a horrible place to live in.

touche salsa...neither is good...it's just an example of the lesser between 2 evils

how come price of gas has dropped 4 days in a row to about $1.93 a GALLON u.s.?
we are still getting screwed big time.
has the gorvernment got control of the oil companies or vice versa?

I would like to know if there is anything that can be done about bad drivers on the highway. There seems to be a lot of people passing on solid lines lately.

And can anything be done about people driving 80km/h down the highway with a line of 10 cars behind them?

Common sense would tell a person to pull over, but that doesnt seem to happen. I would like to see the police pull over these slow drivers as much as the speeding drivers. Both are equally dangerous.

cougars fan: see my previous post

polar 7018: if the government were in "control" of the oil companies, gas would be $10/L and would never reduce in price, and would be inadequately supplied with a top heavy ministry.

Great post resident.

I am with you on that one. Our bad air quality always seems to be caused by things such as small wood stoves and road dust.

I cannot recall the report ever coming out and saying that the mills and plants are the cause.

At least give the public a little credit and say that industry is part of the problem.

Does this mean that if nobody in PG used a wood stove, and we didnt sand the roads, that we would have great air quality. Is this what they would like us to believe??

You just gotta know where to live in this town. The sun has been shining in the College Heights area for days now. They don't call it the "bowl" for nothing. I wouldn't live down there if they paid me.

"Posted by: salsa on February 20 2009 9:15 AM
Regarding raw sewage,Hmmm.Choose between swimming or breathing"

Why should we have to choose?

How about cleanup the air and stop dumping raw sewage into the ocean.

" Posted by: Born in BC on February 20 2009 9:27 AM
Victoria gets to pretend that the raw sewage isnt an issue because most of the impacts are externalized to the entire Pacific Ocean. They conveniently ignore the increase in Red Tide that is likely related to being one of very few cities in a developed country that dumps untreated sewage. At least the AQ in PG gets attention from citizens."


Red tide has nothing to do with sewage or any other human influence.

" Posted by: cougars fan on February 20 2009 9:52 AM
I would like to know if there is anything that can be done about bad drivers on the highway. There seems to be a lot of people passing on solid lines lately.

And can anything be done about people driving 80km/h down the highway with a line of 10 cars behind them?

Common sense would tell a person to pull over, but that doesnt seem to happen. I would like to see the police pull over these slow drivers as much as the speeding drivers. Both are equally dangerous."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You can pass those doing 80 on solid lines where it is safe to do so and the cops already have the authority to ticket drivers travelling to slow.

lostfaith "Red tide has nothing to do with sewage or any other human influence." I have to diagree with that. Red tide can happen all over the coast but with more frequency and it is being related to pollution. I read that not very long ago and tried searching but can't seem to find it at the moment.

gardengirl you say

"You just gotta know where to live in this town. The sun has been shining in the College Heights area for days now. They don't call it the "bowl" for nothing. I wouldn't live down there if they paid me."

If the residents of the bowl all moved out you would have one giant slum. That would increase your taxes in College Heights as slums are a causative factor in increased crime rates.

On another note, would you support a property tax incentive for people who live in the bowl? Or is it another question of "if it doesn't affect me then I can't be bothered".

Hey hey hey.. Come on you guys its friday! save the beefs for monday. Its sunny outside spring is slowly coming. Its not -30, gold hit $1003/ounce. Life is good today! Enjoy your weekend!

"Red tide has nothing to do with sewage or any other human influence."

Ah lostfaith, always good for a laugh. Dont let science get in the way of your agruements.

"It is unclear what causes red tides..... they appear to be a result of human activities[1]"

[1] Lam CWY et al (1989) Red tides in Tolo Harbor, Hong Kong pp 49–52.

There ya go Born quoting selected parts of Wikipedia to try and prove your point.

Why not quote the whole story about the causes of red tide?

I will post the whole sentence including the important parts of which you omitted.

"It is unclear what causes red tides; their occurrence in some locations appears to be entirely natural"

When using Wikipedia remember that the information there is only as good as the people that put it there.
Anyone can write there opinion into Wikipedia, even you heaven forbid.

Red tide has been on this planet longer than the human race and therefore is not caused by human sewage or human influence.

Seamutt you seem to always have an arguement but also can never back up what you say other than to say "I read that not very long ago and tried searching but can't seem to find it at the moment."

lostfaith
The periods (or dots as you likely know them) indicate that something is removed. I was not trying to hide anything. While there is definitly an issue with false information on wiki this particular passage is referenced to a research paper. I will admit that I didnt actaully goto the research paper and confirm it it is alot stronger agrument then "Red tide has nothing to do with sewage or any other human influence" which is really just the opinion of someone on a public board.

I tried to find a reference to a pop up book for you but was unable to find one.

Red tide has been around a long time, and as far as I know, is not caused by sewage.
I could look it up but I am too lazy! One thing I would not do is trust Wikipedia, that is the most idiotic thing to come along in a coons age. I think that wikipedia is just a good way to spread rumours and misinformation.
metalman.

Sure is nice to see Mr.Blowing Smoke with his happy(see I am still working face) off of this forum.

The economy we are living in today has been mislabeled as a "RECESSION".......this is not the case, this is the beginning of a full blown "DEPRESSION".
It is a very sad day when more and more people have to count on food hampers to live, and if they are lucky, find a bed to sleep in at their parents house because they have lost everything they have in the world.
We have created this world of greed, hate and disrespect to others and if we do not like it, then it is up to us to change it. Call it reverse engineering if you wish. All this means is once you have a picture of perfection in your mind use your knowledge and talent in manifesting it into reality.
I have heard the statement many times over the years, "don't expect different results when you continually do the same things over and over and over again the same way"......this logic appears to be abundant in big business, politics as well as within all of us.
This system failed us back in the dirty thirties because of the greed of the few. Once again because we did not focus on changing this, world unity, equality and complete planetary world health is at stake. Do we want to change this?...are we prepared to change this?...I don't know about you all but I am, our problems are all encompassing and sewage dumping is but one very small tiny "result" of the bigger problem...some one obviously thinks the dumping of sewage like this is O.K., I know that I do not.
No matter how you slice it everything flows back to us as human beings and the absolute silly stupid decisions we allow to come to reality.

We need to stop...take a big breath...then begin working towards change and begin acting on what, and how we feel, rather than thinking solely of the almighty dollar or ourselves as if we as individuals are the only ones who matter.

Wikipedia is written collaboratively by volunteers from all around the world; anyone can edit it. Since its creation in 2001, Wikipedia has grown rapidly into one of the largest reference Web sites,

Lamb, property taxes are already cheaper in the bowl. Ever compared house prices, including property taxes, in the bowl, College Heights and other areas of town? When comparing similar homes in each area of PG, the house prices and property taxes are cheaper in the bowl. College Heights property taxes are one of the more expensive places. And Gardengirl, I wouldn't live in College Heights if you paid me.

Victoria's air vs. PG's air.

I, too am originally from Victoria, and when I first moved here 33 years ago, the difference in air quality was much greater than it is now. PG's air has actually cleared up over the years (not saying that it is anywhere perfect, though). But, when we consider the constant sea breezes that Victoria has to remove smoke and odours, you cannot really compare the two environments. If Prince George was situated on the ocean, and not in a bowl, do you think air quality would be of such a concern to us?

I think not.

Red tide. Who cares how long red tide has been around before humans. So has air. So has poor air quality (natural fires, vlocanic ash, etc).

Tell me clearly why that excludes humans from influencing the quality of the ocean waters, the increase in red tide occurances, the change in air qulity in PG and other communities. Come on, let me smell your brain cells heating up under the inlfunce of neurons and synapses strained under the thinking going on.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k2153g23602p57j0

A relationship between environmental factors and red tide species was found.

Go find the paper that shows that no relationship exists with human activities and environmental factors. You know, the one that indicates that we are completely different from every other organism on this earth and have no influence on the earth's environment.

http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/031505/tp2ch9.htm?date=031505&story=tp2ch9.htm

http://encarta.msn.com/sidebar_761595078/red_tides_increase_worldwide.html

Under the common sense banner, there is a statement which says: "err on the side of caution."

Victoria's air vs. PG's air.

If Prince George was situated on the ocean, and not in a bowl, do you think air quality would be of such a concern to us?

-------

I think we are concerned about the air quality, not about why we have the poor air quality.

Every community is dealt a deck of cards which includes a card that gives us the context of geography. We have to deal with that and act accordingly. We can't act as if we live in Victoria.

However, maybe we should move the polluting industries to the seaside community and move the Government offices and other clean industries up here.

Victoria Feb 19, 2008

VICTORIA, BC – Environmental groups are pleased with the BC government’s commitment to initial funding of sewage treatment for Victoria’s Capital Regional District as laid out in today’s budget. They are calling on the Premier to go one step further and ensure his upcoming plan for climate change includes innovative investments in the recovery of heat and energy from liquid and organic solid waste.

The provincial budget committed $9 million over three years to assist the Capital Regional District in planning for treatment and procuring wastewater treatment facilities. Though only a small part of what is needed, it is a good first step.

“These funds highlight the province’s continued commitment to stopping pollution from Victoria’s sewage,” said Jim McIsaac, Clean Water Director, T. Buck Suzuki Environmental Foundation. “Under Minister of Environment Barry Penner, the BC government has shown genuine leadership and support for environmental protection by turning promises for sewage treatment into concrete action.”

I have nothing to write about this week. Can you believe it? I can't.

Hey Gus. I appreciate your comment. We have to get these pollutting industries relocated. I understand there is infra structure money available. An urban renewal programme in PG could be to relocate industry including the CN, pulpmills etc. out of the bowl and thereby make PG a lovely spot with two rivers to enjoy and downtown could really be a park in a park like setting Too visionary? Of course. But "yes we can" if we want to.

Lamb. The relocation of CN Rail, Pulpmills, etc; would only cost about 2 or 3 Billion dollars or more. We should get right on it.

Why are people in the silvicultural sector not considered forest workers?? With the dramatic drop in seedling production, the same amount (or more) of workers competing for less trees to plant, the prices are gonna drop as contractors take advantage of this situation. I dont really need the monetary injection but was kind of dismayed that this sector is invisible. And with such a transient but consistent workforce, its like pulling teeth to get a collective voice to defend our right to make a living too. Are we not in a roundabout way cleaning up a mess that the well paid union people made. I think we at least deserve acknowledgement that this affects us too. Your thoughts?

Why are people in the silvicultural sector not considered forest workers?? With the dramatic drop in seedling production, the same amount (or more) of workers competing for less trees to plant, the prices are gonna drop as contractors take advantage of this situation. I dont really need the monetary injection but was kind of dismayed that this sector is invisible. And with such a transient but consistent workforce, its like pulling teeth to get a collective voice to defend our right to make a living too. Are we not in a roundabout way cleaning up a mess that the well paid union people made. I think we at least deserve acknowledgement that this affects us too. Your thoughts?

Captain Slashpile ...

Watch the news next week.

Attention everyone off this site, only lostfaith can speak!