Yes I still wish they went bankrupt that would pave the way for lots of smaller companys to start up, and would still create just as many jobs. Just one greedy company less.

Funny, I don't wish for the company that YOU work for goes broke. Hell, I don't even know you.

i guess their profits are going up in smoke (literally) and hanging over the Prince George air shed, damaging the health of residents here.

Jem you wishing canfor goes bankrupt is like me wishing your house burned down. It's stupid and shows a lack of thought. active, where is this smoke coming from?

much from the cogen plant. where is the cogen plant?

Jem
You have no idea what you are talking about. Canfor going bankrupt is just going to allow other big companies to prosper, but even if it didnt it wouldnt matter, no one is going to 'start up' a lumber company right now. But I wont waste any more of my breath, because I sincerely doubt that you can comprehend and intelligent arguement.

The cogen plant probably polutes less than the wood burning stoves in the bowl.

Yes Jem, you sure are a GEM!, albeit probably a tree hugging, sweater knitting one, sitting on you`re unemployed arse waiting for your next pogey check.
To post moronic comments like you have shows a total lack of concern for others.
Perhaps you should move to Mackenzie and voice your opinions there.I`m sure you will make even more friends.

Yes Jem, you sure are a GEM!, albeit probably a tree hugging, sweater knitting one, sitting on you`re unemployed arse waiting for your next pogey check.
To post moronic comments like you have shows a total lack of concern for others.
Perhaps you should move to Mackenzie and voice your opinions there.I`m sure you will make even more friends.

maybe you should find a hole and crawl into and fill it with water . what you said was more moronic you gonad

Let me put it to you this way I already went broke because of Canfor so what makes you more special.Like I said more small local companys would be a lot better than one big one.

Hey whelen I wish the same thing cause I did work for Canfor.

Holy, wow...
I think a huge company like Canfor having such a huge loss is the sign of the times and everyone should be worried - if they went belly up I would guess that small companies with shallow pockets wouldn't have a hope in hell of making it...

When times are good, big companies make big money. When times are bad, big companies lose big money.

It's all relative and they usually can't win. When the times are good they are accused of being greedy and not sharing those profits with employees, etc. When times are bad they are accused of "cooking the books" and "hiding" the profit that they are really making.

At the end of the day it's just like ANY business. If they want to be around long-term, there will have to be more good years than bad years and during those good years things will have to managed so that the bad years can be absorbed.

Canfor is a big company that has been around a long time. Despite the huge losses they are currently facing, I predict they'll be around for a long time yet.

Im with Jem..It would be nice to see a company that isnt publicly traded have a monopoly.Even thought they provide employment corporations of this nature arent good in the long run. If indeed canfor were to go bankrupt it would offer opertunity for more value added companys to take its place. Companys that arent listed invest more money into local economys because their bottom line isnt shareholder value. A community has more say in what a private company does and not some distant share holder or CEO sitting in a board room across the country. At this point all these major companys are in danger of imploading in on themselves like pope and talbot for example.

Why would Canfor write off all these big expenses when the economy is in the toilet?

Wouldn't it be better to write off these things when you make alot of money in order to take advantage of reducing taxes, similar to buying a RRSP when you have a good year?

Why waste them in this troubling economic environment?

Or is there some advantage to making your company look like it is losing even more money than it is when your stock price is already beatten up?

"Why would Canfor write off all these big expenses when the economy is in the toilet"

In the simplest of terms, it's because the financial statements are meant to provide a picture of the operating results for a specific period of time. Since all of those transactions or events occurred during that specified period of time, they would generally have to be recorded in the financial statements as such.

"Canfor gambled on US CDN dollar exchanges"

No gamble. The company does business in both the US and Canada. It is reasonable for them to have assets/debts in both countries. All other things being equal, what they lost in US dollars versus Canadian Dollars last year as a result of the stronger C$ at that time they will gain this year as a result of the weaker C$ if it continues that way.

Losses incurred this year, through write-offs, etc., can be carried forward or backward to offset income taxes owing in future years, or income taxes paid in previous years.

By taking such write-offs now, which are essentially 'bookkeeping' allocations not involving 'cash', Canfor may possibly be able to recover taxes paid in the past and boost its 'cash' position. This would be a very necessary step to take in such a market, since the availablity of 'cash' to the company with which to meet its ongoing obligations is already impaired.

There is much talk about 'profit' on these boards lately. You all should realize that EVERY business uses double-entry "accrual" accounting based on the Balance Sheet principle, where 'profit' is something far different than what is the case in simple 'cash' accounting, where 'profit' is defined as Revenue - Disbursement.

Accordingly, 'cash' in "accrual" accounting is only ONE component of business 'profit', and 'profit and loss' are only meaningful in regards to the changes they make to the Company's Balance Sheet.

In a profitable year the business will record an increase in Assets over Liabilities, and a similar increase will show as an increase to Shareholder's Equity, or Capital Account. This indicates the net worth of both the Company and its shareholders has increased.

In a year of Loss, the situation will reverse, and the Assets and net worth of the Company and its shareholders will decrease. While the Company's Liabilities, what it "OWES" to other entities outside the Firm, will increase. When the debt obligations incurred by these Liabilities cannot be repaid from operating income, or securing more longer term debt financing, or sale of Assets, or an increase in the Comapny's "capital" (the sale of shares to new shareholders), the Company will go Bankrupt.

Good post socredible.

"There is much talk about 'profit' on these boards lately. You all should realize that EVERY business uses double-entry "accrual" accounting based on the Balance Sheet principle, where 'profit' is something far different than what is the case in simple 'cash' accounting, where 'profit' is defined as Revenue - Disbursement"

I agree with what I think you are trying to say, that being that net income per the financial statements cannot be taken as "cash received" or "cash paid out". These cash flow implications are summarized in the Statement of Cash Flows, not the Income Statement. As an aside, even the definition you use for "cash accounting" is not quite accurate (at least if you are using classic accounting terminology) since revenue is an all encompassing concept that could include cash or non cash items.

"Accordingly, 'cash' in "accrual" accounting is only ONE component of business 'profit'"

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying here, but cash actually has no bearing on business profit (net income) in accrual accounting. The whole purpose of accrual accounting is to get away from measuring income based on cash flows and to instead measure income based on when the income is earned (which may or may not link to cash flows). Cash is merely a by-product of the business activity and while it would certainly have a relationship to net income in normal circumstances, it has no bearing on the computation of net income. This is why in theory, it would be possible to have a business with a high net income but no cash (everything was sold on account) or a business with a huge loss and lots of cash (haven't sold anything but have taken lots of customer deposits).

I think you probably understand all of this but I thought I'd throw my two cents in as well. This discussion is probably a good reminder of why financial statements are not necessarily easy things to interpret. There is allot that goes into them and much of it may not make sense to the average person.

fucenuh for your inforamation this tree hugger has been working in the logging industry since I was 14 years old through blood sweat and tears and many days away from my family, and what do I have to show for it. I have not been on ei for many years. Pope and Talbot ran with a couple of hundred thousand dollars of mine this spring and I thought well if Canfor in Mackenzie is starting up after spring break I will try to pull through and the people at Canfor kept saying they had full intentions of starting up as soon as spring break was done so the contractors spent thousands of dollars on fixing their machines so that they would be ready to startup again, guess what a week before we were to go to work we got called into canfor and were told the mill was shutting down right away.So you see I aready worked at Canfor in Mackenzie.

I just think at smaller companys you are a person not a number.Thats why I think we would be better of with more smaller companys.

I think we're bascially on the same page, NMG. "Cash", as I used the term, means Sales that have been made for which payment has actually been received. Accounts receivable and inventory changes over the fiscal period would also affect 'profit'.

What we're really dealing with in regards to business 'profit' are operational changes in Assets and Liabilites (and Capital Account.) In certain situations a business could possibly still be 'booking' a profit, but at the same time unable to pay its bills as they come due through lack of access to the necessary amount of 'cash' to do so.

So "Cash Flow" would be vitally important to a concern like Canfor, particularly in times like these, where their ability to borrow to cover ongoing, short-term, operating expenses might be impaired.

Gotcha socredible. I agree completely with what you are describing in your last post.

PACHA's Dave Fuller has been spewing vocal offal on Prince George's air quality at every opportunity. I have to wonder what's his objective. Shutting down all primary industry will put his business out of business. It doesn't affect me because I don't patronize stores that promote hatred toward any one sector of society. Take a look at the signage in his store.

I heard the science tells that industry is less than 30% of the problem - is that right?


Fuceneh has it right. . .
Perhaps you should move to Mackenzie and voice your opinions there.I`m sure you will make even more friends. . . he must be a really smart guy!

I work for Canfor and my husband used to work for Canfor until his mill shutdown. I do NOT wish for Canfor to go bankrupt or any other company to go bankrupt. What a terrible thing for anyone to say. Canfor employees thousands in the community and many thousands more thru indirect jobs. Jem, you are bitter about your job loss and I am sorry for that but don't wish your loss on everyone else. Someday the forest industry will turn around and times will be good again for all of us including you.

"Someday the forest industry will turn around and times will be good again for all of us including you."

It wont benifit the companys that dont adapt. The days of turning out imperial dimension lumber and studs are gone. The comanys that invest in bio energy, value added products, custom high quality lumber cuts and metric lumber are the future. So if your mill isnt re structuring and still running imperial lumber out of low quality dead pine at full tilt then i would be very concerned about futre job stability.