The story so good they had to print it three times in a row!!

Northern Development Initiatives Trust LOANED $11 Million for this project. It wasnt a contribution like the Prov and Fed Governments. This $11 Million has be be paid back plus interest. Not sure where they will get the money to pay it back.

Perhaps someone can explain how the downturn in the global economy is effecting this operation. If you are trying to get 5% of the available traffic then wouldnt you get 5% regardless of what the economy is doing. In a downturn, if the service you are providing is better and cheaper, wouldnt this give you the opportunity to get more business, rather than less.

The Global downturn is just an excuse, because at this time they do not have a commitment from any carriers.

Can we get something specific in regards to where the business is coming from,. when we can expect it, the volume involved and the amount of money that will be made over the next 10 years??? Or does this information not exist.

It doesn't exist; it's all smoke and mirrors. Just like the Horizon Air deal that IPG pawned off on council morons with no concept of due diligence. They had butkiss for market research on that; not a single person in Prince George was polled. They just had a few graphs from InterVISTAS about how well Horizon was doing in places like Kelowna and Edmonton (two ENTIRELY different business and tourist climates) that gave them exactly what they paid for and what they wanted to hear.

Just like Horizon Air, this project was all about being seen to do something. "Build it and they will come" strategy. How about we get a group of intelligent people in charge of our dollars who adopt the opposite strategy on future projects: Secure the commitment from customers first, THEN build it.

They keep saying that "several people have expressed interest". What the hell does that mean? I'm interested in lying on the beach in French Polynesia for 3 months. I'm interested in riding all the world's rollercoasters. I'm interested in hiking the Andes and seeing Macchu Pichu. Doesn't mean I have committed to doing any of those things, and I probably won't.

"If you are trying to get 5% of the available traffic then wouldn't you get 5% regardless of what the economy is doing."

No. Perhaps it would be wise to appreciate by just how much world trade has contracted. 150 million Chinese have lost their factory jobs and have gone back to the hinterland to stay in the villages with their extended families, some Chinese shipping has been idled and some of their ships make the crossing almost empty. German exports are at their lowest since 1949. Every other country in Europe has been affected similarly, the Ukraine is on the verge of bankruptcy, Saab is broke, GM and Chrysler are worth less than the bailout loans that they have been given...need I say more.

The economy is in a bad recession, which it wasn't when the project was given the green light.

Those people at our airport, the federal and provincial governments and the
Northern Development Initiatives Trust went ahead on this in good faith.

Perhaps if Nostradamus was still alive he might have been able to predict the future for them. Maybe. He wasn't all that perfect either.

There is no "good faith" in wasting taxpayer dollars.

No legitimate businessperson would invest millions of their OWN capital (risking their children's futures, their home, their marriage, whatever...) on a venture without at least PRE-securing some guaranteed contracts and/or connections. It would have been pretty simple to do:

"Hello, major Atlanta, GA cargo company? Yeah, this is Prince George, BC calling...we're pretty much right on your flight path and noticed that you stop in Anchorage to re-fuel and change containers en route to Asia. If we built you a big enough runway, would you be interested in landing in PG instead? OK, so you'd be interested. Can we put you down for a guaranteed landing contract for one year then at the following rates with an option to follow? We can't? Oh, okay, thank you for your time. Let us know when you're willing to commit, OK?"

After that conversation, you hold off on any expenditures until your customers are in the bag. But oh, no, that wouldn't allow for any photo-ops or BS politicking.
This has nothing to do with Nostradamus-like prophecy abilities and you know it. It's about simple business acumen and not being so damn cavalier with taxpayer money.

You'd expect that they will use the downturn in the global economy as the main excuse for it not being used and going to waste.

If the runway is a cost savings initiative for the air cargo business, why arent they lining up to use it?

... "&&*$#@@%)(*&&^%!!#$%^"...

"This is Prince George tower... say again please."

. ...This .&&^%**$ .. 242 heavy ... **&%#@@... fuel low ... ))(##%^$ ... toilet plugged ... permiss..*&&^%^% ...

"242 ... Prince George tower.... standby one ...."

:-)

V.

A LOT OF GOOD THE RUNWAY IS GOING TO DO SINCE DAN ROGERS HAS CLOSED THE CITY FOR BUSINESS

Reading this site it looks like people posting are in a panic. Gives me lots of confidence in getting out of the situation. I hope we have some cooler heads somewhere in this world that are working on a common problem.

Alberta has a $1 billion deficit budget coming up and the people who follow jobs will have nowhere to go but become security officers at the Olympics.

Obama is getting bad press one month into office with people wondering when this change he promised is coming. We all need to go to sleep for a few months and wake up with some more positive actions planned.

Nice to see all these clowns in one picture,I wonder if they all decided to drive to PG and pay for their own gas,bet the stinky air quality index went up a few notches when Gordo opened his mouth.

Just because Campbell was here, big deal. Photo op election coming up. What another waste of taxpayers dollars. Stay in Vancouver and take your buddies with you. After all BC IS Vancouver Lowermainland.

now now Gus - this is opinion250, quite possibly the LAST place one should look for positive comments ;-)

heck, Im in the process of building a house - hows that for optimism?

Go YXS!

Who's in a panic, Gus? No panic, just anger. 40-million-bucks out the window for a white elephant while our brothers and sisters are getting laid off left, right and center and being told by the Feds that they can only expect 5 more weeks of EI.

Hell, even if you didn't want that 40-million going to social programs, I guarantee I could have found some better uses for it around Prince George. The only jobs that airstrip created were the short-term jobs for the contractors. How many REAL long-term jobs can we possible get from refueling planes?

Right-on Tombstone I agree with your post! Is that positive enough for you Gus.

"The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed."

Lloyd Jones

Gus, well said.

What's wrong with 37 million being spent in PG? At least there is a hope of tons of spin offs.
What will the Olympics cost? What can PG hope of ever getting from them?
Tax money will be spent somewhere. I can't believe the whiners on this site. "We want jobs! We want EI for life!" Yet when someone or some group tries to do something that may improve things you guys jump all over the idea and cry even harder.
As far as EI- it was meant to be a temporary help- not permanent. Brothers and sisters may have to leave town for awhile and maybe do some work for average pay. They wouldn't be the first ones and they will not be the last.

Hey red2b god forbid anything ever goes wrong in your world. We are pissed off and tired of the wreckless spending of our taxes.
Nobody wants E.I. for life, but if I ran this perfect world I would rather give another year of E.I. to anyone who owned their own home than rather see them give it up to K.P.M.G. or any other large corporation. God forbid should anyone loose their home,family because they can't find a job from the masses. Training you say, train for what, now that I'm all grown-up I want the PM's job.You know what else this stinking town is giving us all cancer!
IT FREE FOR ALL FRIDAY,

People should quit making excuses for Government waste. This $37 Million could have been spent on re planting the forests, or cleaning up the lakes and campsites around Prince George. There are many other ideas that the money could have been spent on, that would have created jobs for years to come.

The Airport Runway Expansion was a great contract for those who built it, and you can rest assured that they made millions, however for the everyday tax payer who paid for it all, we will get the Royal Shaft.

There is nothing to indicate at this time that any jobs will be created, or any new business created. One can hope, however it doesnt look good.

Diplomat. **The men who take taxpayers dollars and create meaningful projects, are infinitely better than those who take taxpayers dollars and piss it into the wind**

PS. Did you wear your hard hat to-day. How many planes were on the runway??

I thought it was apropos that there was a 747 flying over Prince George at 1230pm just after the grand opening, and another that went over at 2pm. They were so high in the sky you could hardly see them.

It seems that the Airport couldnt get a 747 to land even for the publicity. One carrier that showed some interest awhile ago cancelled. The Airport probably couldnt afford to pay their expenses for landing and taking off.

"Training you say, train for what,.." Did I say training? I said that maybe brothers and sisters will have to leave town for awhile to work. Lots of people have been leaving town to go where the work is for years. No one noticed or cared then because it was't happening to them. Now that it is hitting the brothers and sisters the whole country is supposed to help out. There has been lots of homes given up, or lost over the years due to someone losing thier job. I am sure they would have welcomed more EI but no one cared then. Now, it's a big deal. Maybe the union can help out? Get them to guarantee the mortgage? Just a thought.

Palopu: "People should quit making excuses for Government waste."

It is not a waste. It is a brand new runway extension which they decided to do WITHOUT having any psychic powers to know that the worst recession since the Great Depression was about to come about! Cut them some slack and relax.

It's a hard asset with the prospect of doing great business in the near future.

The U.S., Canada and other countries in Europe are taking a risk with TENS of Billions (with a *B*) of taxpayers' money to try to rescue GM (and its European subsidiaries) and semi-comatose Chrysler Corporation! How many jobs have been saved so far? Zero. On the contrary, the bailout money is being used by them to get rid of tens of thousands of employees!

What is this paltry airport $40 million compared to what Canada has pumped already into those two mismanaged behemoths?

And, there is absolutely no guarantee that these two companies are even going to survive. They are already asking for more!

Perhaps it would have been a better idea to send that money to GM?

I am happy that it was spent HERE instead.

Because if it had not been spent HERE it would have been spent elsewhere in any case. Perhaps in one of the other B.C. towns which are also demanding an extension of their runways to attract international tourist and cargo business.

Red2b: "What's wrong with 37 million being spent in PG? At least there is a hope of tons of spin offs. "

Nothing wrong with it.

That's it.

Despite the global economic downturn, the number and value of major construction projects planned or underway across B.C. went up during the fourth quarter of 2008.

* Eight hundred and eighty major capital projects, worth an estimated $179.4 billion, were planned or underway in B.C. between October and December 2008.

* Budget 2009 is investing almost $14 billion in infrastructure projects, separate from the investments listed in the Major Projects Inventory, in every region of British Columbia.

I'm looking forward to the day when they name our airport after someone. The Dan Rogers International Airport. Arrivals and departure times always up for debate.

Diplomat. I agree that we should get a fair share of the available revenue from the different levels of Government, and that it is far better that it be spent here than somewhere else, however this does not mean that it should be spent on projects that may never create any employment or benefits.

We have heard nothing in regards to what Airlines if any will land in Prince George.

We have heard nothing in regards to who if anybody will be setting up any cargo distribution centres.

We get vague references such as.

**We have had discussions with some airlines and they have indicated that they are interested**

**If the volcano in Alaska erupts perhaps some of this traffic would come to Prince George**

**If the refinery in Alaska shuts down, maybe there will be an increase in the cost of fuel in Alaska and this would give us a better chance to compete.**

**Anchorage is congested and therefore we are in a good position to handle their overflow**

The list goes on. The bottom line is, it appears that this project is $3 Million over budget, and they will have to borrow the money to pay for it. Problem is they already owe $11 Million to the Northern Trust Initiative, and $5 Million to CIBC. There will not be any increase in revenue this year or in the next few years, so I dont know where they are going to borrow the money from.

I suspect that before very long we will be advised that the Airport Improvement Fee will be increased from $15.00 to $20.00.

Steig Hoeg didnt leave the Airport for no reason. He was the CEO and he was the one making all the predictions about how successful this project would be. He is now conspicuous by his absence.

If he was the driving force behind this project, you would think that they would have had him at the airport to-day, helping to cut the ribbons, and sharing in the accolades.

I certainly appreciate the excellent points you are making!

You said: "...that it is far better that it be spent here than somewhere else, however this does not mean that it should be spent on projects that may never create any employment or benefits."

The magic word here is *may." May or may not, we just don't know. It'll be up to them to find the money if they end up in a bind. I am not going to worry about it, it's beyond my control. It does look kind of grim, though.

You point out: "**Anchorage is congested and therefore we are in a good position to handle their overflow**"

That overflow (when it still existed) was the magic 5% of traffic they were trying to attract by having the runway extended.

Enough studies were done to conclude that this was not an unreasonable plan. It convinced both levels of government to provide funding in the millions. Governments don't hand over money without expert studies backing up a project's viability.

Now, let's think positive and hope that the recession doesn't go on for too many years.

If it does, the least of our worries will be an unused airstrip as there will be global rioting in the streets.

Yep, I sure am glad all those doomsdayers posting there concerns are just dumb working jocks, who never went on there own to run a business. all they have to do is whine, and collect a check every two weeks.

The Airport Authority is not a business. It is a Government Entity with a licence to print money, hence the Airport Improvement Fee. Started at $5.00 now at $15.00 and probably will rise. Airline passengers are captive to these charges.

Airport Authoritys are used by the Federal Government to run the airports and thus reduce the cost to the Federal Government. In fact on the larger airports like Vancouver the Federal Government actually makes more money than when they ran the airports themselves. They didnt give us a refund when they got out of the airport business, so therefore they are double dipping.

People should really read up on the Airport Authoritys work before they start calling them a business. Much like the BC Ferries, if they have problems they increase the rates.

Hmmm with all the extra blacktop space the car dealers in PG could have the next mega sale there.

If it is paid by user fees, and you don't agree, then don't use it.
Don't get a sliver on the wooden sidewalks Palpou.

It would be interesting to know what the economic advantages of stopping and refueling in PG would be. It would be pretty hard to imagine fuel would be cheaper than in Alaska. We need only look at the cost per liter of gasoline in both Canada and the US to realize even considering the exchange rate gasoline is a minimum of 25 cents per liter cheaper in the US than in Canada. I am sure this same ratio applies to jet fuel. Unless the route is substantially shorter by travelling through PG there is no fueling advantage and it will prove more costly to stop in PG.
I wonder how many planes per year landing in PG are needed to payback the monies borrowed for this project. This type of information is either non-existant or someone is afraid to release it to the general public.
Given the Horizon air fiasco, and the lack of due diligence in attracting potential clients for air cargo refueling the runway expansion will probably fade in the sunset as another failed venture.
Nice photo opportunity for Gord and company though.

Red2b. Get with the times. The Airport and all the facilities was originally built with tax payers dollars. Now the Feds have turned them over to Airport Authorities to run, and allowed the Airport Authorities to charge passengers for flying. Considering that you and I as taxpayers already owned the Airport why are we paying to use it??????

The fact of the matter is, is that the Government has found a way to run the Airport on the backs of passengers, and make money at the same time. In addition they lease the facilities to the Airport Authority but they still own them., so in essence they are double dipping.

Whether I use it or not has no relavence to the situation. Those people who do use it are getting hosed, and the taxpayers are getting hosed.

Dont get a sliver from your wooden head red2b

Is there a carbon tax on the fuel for airplanes at the airport? Betcha they don't have no "carbon tax" in Alaska. Gas up before you leave. That's what I always say. (Unless I'm going somewhere with cheaper gas) Then I only buy what I need to get me there. It's called economics.

I think they should have gone for the longest runway in Canada. Why settle for number 3? To be the longest would have meant more money for the local contractors.
The city or Airport Authority should go ahead and start building a huge warehouse that will be needed when the big planes start landing. I am sure another 20 or 30 million would do fine. Raise the fee. So what? Better to spend the money here than elsewhere, and it will get spent.
What is the hold up with the road? Hopefully that money will be approved so that the tenders can be released for that work. This city has got to start spending on new buildings. Lets get the PAC out of the ground this year. The RCMP should be starting soon. The city should build a huge convention centre downtown to attract big conventions and to support the hotels and to revitalize the downtown. Imagine, RCMP, PAC, Convention Centre, a few condos...huge warehouses at the airport, low cost housing. Who wouldn't want to locat a business here?

I was going to comment but you said it for me Palopu. You hit the nail right on it's head.

"..you and I as taxpayers already owned the Airport why are we paying to use it??????"
Then why pay to use the Aquatic Centre, or to skate on the oval, or to park in a parkade?

Red2b, we pay user fees at the places you mention because of their overhead costs, and there are no other means of collecting money for things such as staff, zambonis, electricity, heat, chlorine, light bulbs, etc. Completely different from the airports, which charge private airlines very large amounts of money to land, refuel, park, etc. Those private enterprises then work those costs into our ticket charges. The "airport improvement fee" is strictly a gouge dedicated to the egos of the Airport Authority. They spend our money on expensive wood inlays, stuffed bear displays, fancy art, etc. etc. so they can attend conferences with their colleagues around the world and brag about how they have the best airport. It's really quite ridiculous for you to compare the AIF to user fees at the aquatic center. If Westjet was paying the aquatic center thousands of dollars per month for upkeep, then I would in fact expect to get in for free.

As for your other ridiculous comment, yeah, let's just go a gazillion more dollars in debt to put a brand new facility on every corner. "Who wouldn't want to locate a business here then?", you ask. I'll tell you who: people who value their lungs and sinuses; people who value the suspension, tires and windshields on their automobiles; people who don't want to drive monster Dodge Rams but would like to get around 12 months of the year without fear of being trapped at home on an unplowed street; people who like to bicycle and hike and jog and take the bus and can't do that safely here for many months of the year(if at all depending on where they live); people who don't want to step over drunken aboriginals and crack addicted welfare cases every time they shop downtown; people who like snow-capped mountains in their back yard, not a 2-hour drive away; people who like mosquito-free summers; etc, etc.

In short, the answer to your "who wouldn't want to locate a business here?" is JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY. Which is why the population has remained stagnant for decades, relative to the growth of just about every other BC city that started out at the same size or smaller in the 1970's.

"..."who wouldn't want to locate a business here?"

It's simple.

Businesses go where the best short and long term money making opportunities exist.

Businesses don't care about most (if any) of the irritations that you mention above like mosquitoes, potholes, sinuses, drunks and welfare cases, jogging and hiking oir a view of the mountains.

It's the money making aspect that rules everything. A business pays taxes and expects the city to look after potholes, drunks and druggie problems and all that stuff.

If the city does a proper job the city will be a nicer place for the employees to live in, which is a bonus for the business when it advertises to hire new employees.

Present employees will be a happier bunch.

When the opportunities run out to make a profit businesses close down and leave town.

Nothing else will keep them here.

When people get so terribly disgusted with the conditions in the town they live in they may fold up their tent and leave for greener pastures.

I have done it and never gave the town I left another thought.

Bonus: Prince George is a way better town to live in than where I lived before.

Some people even think it doesn't need to grow any more!

It needs to be cleaned up and kept clean and there ought to be a plan to repair and replace all the deteriorated infrastructure.

Our previous mayor obviously did not see that as an important priority.

Let's hope we will be treated to a change of direction, soon.

Reb2b. When we built the new Civic Centre one of its selling features was that it would also be a convention centre and we would host conventions from all over the world. Never happened. It sits empty most of the year. No point in building a bigger one, if you cant get business for the one you have now.

Red2b's post on February 21 2009 12:19 PM was entirely sarcasm brought on by being perhaps a bit frustrated...

:)-