So, terminate the contract with IDL based on specific performance, pay them monies owed, then contact the next best company that was in the running..so on and so forth... Get this project done. But Mr. Rogers will probably call for some study to be done.

Welcome to Mr. Rogers nieghborhood children

"based on specific performance"

Ah ..... there is where the dispute will be. If this contract was not a lump sum and allowed for variations based on conditions found or encountered during construction, it is a negotiated settlement that will be the outcome. Moderate? 10% variance from the figure the City agreed to. If they actually did agree to a single figure rather than a base with extras based on conditions not predictable at the onset.

Pay them the $9,506,700.00 as contracted and tell them they are lucky there are no penalties for being so damn late!

This is a Rodgers problem, left over by the illustrious ex Mayor Colin Kinsley.

What a fiasco. What a grungy looking bridge. They dont like to mention the fact that the round about at the North End of the Bridge will cost taxpayers an additional $2 Million. With the over run costs we are probably looking at $13 to $15 Million dollar bridge, compared to a $750,000.00 repair job to the old one, plus we lost the use of the bridge for 4 1/2 years.

Another Prince George City **success** story.

Yes, pay them the contracted price, upon satisfactory completion, and no more. These cost overruns on public projects are becoming far too commonplace. Regardless of which level of government we are discussing, there is only ONE taxpayer!

Ahhhh... such a well worn ploy by some contractors in your town... and it seems to work every time... strange how the same contractors get so many jobs... wouldn't you think somebody would catch on ??

:-)
]
V.

IDL had the winning bid to build the bridge for $9,506,700.00.

What part of a winning bid of $9,506,700.00. says they can change the price after it has been awarded?

Sorry IDL but if the city of PG has any Balls you will be doing the bridge for what you bid.

Contract is a contract. IDL made a mistake on there estimate, they absorb it. If they abandon the project, they do not get paid at all.

Did IDL agree on the deadline? Then there should be penalties levied against them (unless the city is to be blamed for the delay).

Now rabbitt, do you have any evidence that IDL is milking for extras? And you imply that it is a well worn ploy by "some" contractors in Prince George. WHAT AN INSULT, sir/madam/other. I have no axe to grind with any of the parties involved with this bridge, nor do I have any intimate knowledge whatsoever on the contract IDL has with the city.
Another idiotic comment I have heard is the inference of favouritism, I doubt very much that there is much in the way of favouritism, the rules here are usually the lowest price gets the job, and there are not a lot of contractors in P.G. that could build that bridge, and I don't know if all of them even bid for it, do you?
metalman.

...and its uglyeeeeeee!

Wow, hot topic. Nobody wants to mention the fact that there was a penalty clause in effect for this project. I do know that it was $500.00 per day that substantial performance is not achieved. keep in mind this is based on the date that the contract is signed, if the signing date is delayed the contractor would still be able to ammend the completion date. I do believe that the contractor did not ammend the completion date but is blaming the City for hold ups. In my opinion this is not fair to hang on the taxpayers in this town.

Well, IDL should not be in a position to tell the city that they have to pay extra to perform the same work already laid out in the tender documents. IDL should have been aware of its inherent risk in building a bridge.

Eventhough the city and IDL did sign a contract stating completion date of such and such. The city also has to take ownership of this date which was unrealistic to begin with. Thus starting a project of this size a reasonable length of time to complete the work would have been 9 months and not 6 months as per the wish list. If liquidated penalties must be paid, it probably should be 3 months free, the next two months at $200/day. The third month over is $300/day and then $500/day after that.

It should be relatively easy to have IDL come to this agreement, as the city holds there performance and L&M bonds. A simple call to their bonding company should get IDL's attention.

of course there is a cost over run.
The lowest bid got the job and no one evr checked to see if it was valid.
These large infrastructure companies all do the same bulsh!t.

Low ball the job, then ask for more money to complete the project.
Simple fix: if you take a job, finish it. If your bid was too low, too bad so sad, you should have done a better estimate.

if I hire a contractor to let's say, install a driveway and he estimates it at $1000, I will only pay $1000. What is the difference with million dollar projects except the number of zero's.

The bridge is ugly now because the steel is rusty and not painted yet. When it is all finished, with the deck on it, side rails and light standards it is going to look pretty good!

Since Kinsley was the decider and made the irreversible decision to build a new bridge I have resigned myself to simply sitting back and hoping that at the end of the day it will look alright and serve a useful purpose...

If a roundabout costs anywhere near 2 million I would recommend sticking with a standard light controlled intersection.

Where do these enormous costs come from? I bet it is all used up in engineering, planning, studies, salaries, vacation pay and pension plans, wages, benefits...probably comprising 75% of the total cost, with the other 25% paying for the actual physical entity itself!

If it was that like everywhere how would relatively poor underdeveloped countries pay for all their bridges, highways and other infrastructure?

I bet the ratio there is exactly the reverse: 75% for the structure and 25% for all the other incidentals.

Our affluence is preventing us from getting a realistic value for our money, imho.

A round about is a stupid idea in the best of circumstances. Even in a low volume area. The designer expects hundreds of fully loaded b-train chip trucks to negotiate this traffic impediment every day. This designer is either a moron or has never observed how large these things are and how much room they need to maneuver. Add in passenger vehicles and there is new candidate for most crashed intersection.
The only round about I have ever see work properly is in Regina, but it is huge allowing large trucks to maneuver.
There is one in Vancouver on 90th I think and our little Celica still was tight.

What should have been designed is a bridge over top of the old one laner with a cloverleaf to join unto pulp mill road with an under pass for pulp mill road.
That would have made sense, so politically was not possible.

"The bridge is ugly now because the steel is rusty and not painted yet."

I think I got news for you. I believe that is the way it is going to look. It looks to me that it is COR-TEN steel which is designed to create a layer that has a rust-like appearance. No one is going to be removing that on site. Far too expensive. If it was to have been painted, it would have come with a primer applied to prevent rusting.

This is a good summary, including some of the problems with such steel protection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cor-ten

On another note, has anyone actually read the contract? Without that, the bid price by itself may not be a good indicator of anything when it comes to civil work, other than a ballpark figure.

Anyone who is a detractor of the roundabout does not understand how to use one. It is really so simple, just keep moving as you enter the consarned thing, but you will have to adjust your speed to accomodate other traffic, Oh, and you have to know where you are going. That is important. Those who distrust the roundabout should not come out during the day, for they lack the hand-eye
co-ordination necessary to merge into a stream of traffic. And how can the GD thing cost two million? That sounds like a pile of crap. Compared to a signal controlled intersection there are no wires, stop and go lights, timers, weight or metal mass sensors, or dumbass idiots turning left in front of you. You have a circular roadway, an island, some curbing and a few signs to help people recognize that there is a traffic circle up ahead. The one in Dawson Creek has been working like a hot damn for what, forty five years plus? One last thing; consider for a second or two the cost of maintaining a signalled intersection, with a round about, the maintenance consists of, well, gee whiz, I guess there is no maintenance other than the roadway itself. One more last thing; if they put down a really spiffy base, designed for continuous heavy traffic, there won't even be any potholes, so there!
metalman.

10 Million bucks and not even a coat of paint?

And 2 Million for a roundabout? It will have to be a very large diameter roundabout because trucks pulling trailers need to occupy at least two lanes when they go around a half circle or three quarter circle!

Should be interesting to watch!

The $2 Million for the round about came from the City. This money will come out of the road budget, and as I understand it part of the reason for the cost is Mcmillan Creek. Apparently they will have to do some bridgeing etc; to ensure that the creek is not compromised. (Supposedly a Salmon bearing creek) So, when you put in all the costs, creek, road, paving, etc; you get this big number.

The increase in taxes that were to go to road rehabilation in the City, will now go to approaches to this God Forsaking bridge., and next year they will be looking for more money for roads.

The bottom line is this whole bridge situation has been a major disaster.

(1) Loss of the bridge for over 4 years.,

(2) 13 to 15 million for a bridge when a repair of $750,000.00 would have solved the problem.

(3) This bridge will not handle anymore traffic than the old bridge, and very well may handle less because of closing business on River Road, and First Avenue.

This whole situation was mishandled from the start. Millions of dollars have been wasted, traffic has been diverted for over 4 years with millions of dollars wasted on additional gas, extra miles on vehicles, and of course safety and pollution issues.

GUESS WHAT. No politician, or city employee, has ever taken any responsibility for any of this fiasco. The mainstream thinking is that everything is just TICKIDIE BOO and therein lies the problem. We seem to not hold any elected officials accountable for any of these fiascos, and therefore they go on and do more and more.

When will we ever get real value for our tax dollars???

All the **Yes Men** will think that this bridge, the airport runway expansion, etc; are all good, progressive ideas, however they cannot back up their positions with any facts that can show them to be successes, all they can do is say **this is a good idea** Go Prince George|||||

Sorry, did not realize Mcmillan creek would be involved with the roundabout. It is definitely a trout bearing stream-don't know about salmon though, kind of doubt that. I suppose with all the foofaraw required around fish streams the costs would go up a lot. Sure you need a large diameter circle for the traffic, but there is lots of room there and you only have to build it right once.
metalman.

Wrong place for a bridge
Mucks up the traffic and keeps heavy trucks going through the centre of the town.
This is a Kinsley fiasco as well as the Council that supported him
It is sooooo ugly to boot.