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We Don't Have The Worst Pot Holes In the Country

By Ben Meisner

Monday, March 30, 2009 03:45 AM

While you may be able to make an argument that we haven’t been spending enough on road repairs in this city over the past two decades, or that we haven’t re built enough of our existing roads that have long ago passed their shelf life, the argument that we do less than other cities across Canada doesn’t  wash.

We undertook an in depth look at what other centers across Canada were faced with this year and discovered, to our surprise, that we are right up there in our efforts.

In Barrie Ontario, we were told that the problem is so huge that the city of 130,000 is looking at increasing the amount of money spent in road repairs and re building the existing structure.

In Kamloops to the south, Streets Division Manger, Jim McNeely says the city has purchased a hot box for mix along with a new truck to carry it at a cost of about $200,000 dollars. It is hoped, McNeely said, that instead of repairing some pot holes six or seven times in a day with cold mix that simply washes out of the hole, that the new system will eliminate that problem.

Sudbury Ontario lays claims to having the worse potholes in the country according to the Canadian Automobile Association. Residents say years of not doing anything on the streets have left them in such disrepair that it will require $30 million a year to correct the problem. City officials say they tried to go for a number of years without a tax increase; we are now paying the price.

In Edmonton, that city has 80,000 pot holes to repair and as Brent Pushkarenko told us, that is just for Edmonton proper not the centers such as Sherwood Park. Pushkarenko says in a recent tour of Red Deer and Calgary they are facing the same problem.

In Saskatoon, while spring is just starting to bring the pot holes to the surface, we were told that they are expecting a terrible year. "We have still got several feet of frost in the ground and we have to get by that first".

So where does that leave PG?  Well we have 3 patching cress of two men each, which is close to Sudbury  with a population of 165,000 it has three crews of three working on the problem.

We no doubt left the roads on the back burner while we built facilities that gobbled much of the money up and we are set to pay the price. We need to rebuild and repair a lot of roads in the city, we however should be aware that we are doing as much or more than many cities in the same climate belt in Canada. 

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.


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Comments

Good report Ben, but have these reporters, that reported on other Cities in Canada, ever seen our potholes...lol I think not. This "hole" thing is starting to sound like a competition! Who has the biggest craters on their streets. We can have "Craterammy Awards", could be an annual event.

You know what, I don't drive my cab in Saskatoon, I don't drive it in Montreal, I don't drive it in Winnipeg!! I drive it in PRINCE GEORGE. The roads in this VILLAGE are disgraceful Ben, period!!!

Ben,I really would like you to join me one night, and you will see bad roads, where you probably never would have thought they existed. Yes, even the wealthy have really bad roads!! I drive on over 300km of roads every night. In a month, I see most every pothole in this City. The City says, that they have 3 crews out 24/7! I won't call Bu!!$h!+, but I haven't seen a pothole crew out in about 2 weeks. You would think, in a 10 hour period, covering about 300 klm's, I would see about one pothole getting the "ROYAL TREATMENT". Haven't seen it in 2 weeks

I have customers that get into my cab, and say "my road is the worst". I tell them, your road is bad, but there are worse than yours.

Prince George, is supported by OUR tax dollars, not Saskatoon's, and vice versa. The miss management of PG tax dollars is our City Councils fault, no one else's. Come on now, lets build a 54 million dollar performing Arts Center, and offer subsidies in order to purchase a 4 wheel drive to get there. Only fair!

These roads are a disgrace, and I would suggest, that we do a tour of our roads, and not other Canadian City roads. The only roads that should, and do concern me, are P.G. roads.

I think the City should declare April 1, POTHOLE DAY, and that is no joke!!
I drive around the pot holes in my pickup truck. It seems to work, because then I don't notice them as much and I don't contribute to making them bigger....

I noticed the line cracks get wider, and then grow into pot holes, which in turn explode in the right conditions. This seems to happen most often along the seams where resurfacing takes place. Throwing cold mix at the problem is a make work project for city staff and not a solution IMO.

The solution lies in sealing the cracks in their infancy with something that works long term... preferably something that can be softened and re melted with ease throughout the year maybe with propane powered inferred elements on a swing arm attached to a truck? Almost anything that sticks to pavement as a sealant and melts easily would work.
Eagle, don't you think that the solution would be to build the road to take the load, and not crack in the first place?
Other than that point I agree with your opinion, they need to better seal the cracks.
metalman.
"We Don't Have The Worst Pot Holes In the Country"

What a relief! Now I am beginning to see them in a completely different more positive light already!

Do we have 80,000? Let us all adopt one pothole per Prince George citizen (some people may have to adopt more than one!) and have a Prince George Hug-Your-Pothole day!

Perhaps April 1st? No. Not a good choice - that's April Fools' Day already...ah, never mind, that day will do!

Can I go and adorn my own personal extra humungous pothole with adorable shocking pink spray paint?

That would help me identify it and alert traffic to show some respect and try to drive AROUND it!

I'll call it my own personal Kinsley Kruncher!
I'm not a fan of Ben Meisner's editorials at the best of times since they tend to be glossy and superficial, this one is no different.

It's pseudo-journalism to say other places have it as bad or worse as we do. These kind of comparisons always crop up (especially by politicians) as if it somehow justifies us getting the purple shaft.

When Hydro rates go up, ICBC goes up, natural gas goes up, etc... there is always some pie faced creep telling us, "Our rate increase is in line with what province x, y and z have done, and in fact we are still among the lowest prices in peanut butter land." Yeah, as if this justifies ripping us off.

Ben, stop being a pot hole, and be a real journalist. The pot hole situation in PG is deplorable, and brushing it off by saying it's bad elsewhere is disingenuous. Go talk to some of our road workers who have been building/patching roads for a while, and they will tell you we're not fixing them, or building them like we used to, and THAT is why we are plagued with potholes. As usual the problem comes down to people making decisions being too far removed from the people who do the work, or have to live with the completed work.

I'm Chug, and that's one man's opinion.
So are we supposed to be happy that other cities have comparable pot hole problems? Sorry doesn't do anything for me. Fixing the problem will help me feel better.
Good one Chug, couldn't agree more.
This Editorial is very similar to the story run on Opinion250 on Friday, reminding us once again that "PG is not alone when it comes to potholes"....a little comfort to the citizens of Prince George as we drive to work or school this morning dodging lake sized craters in the road.
Maybe we should build a weather controlling device so that we don't get freeze thaw cycles which cause the potholes in the first place. Short of that potholes are going to be a normal consequence of having paved roads. The article serves its purpose; to inform you that other places have the same problems it isn't miss management it is the climate. Get used to it or move.
T:"Get used to it or move."

To one of the other(potholed) places. Voila, problem solved.

Chug, don't be too harsh. But you are making a good point about what I call *leapfrogging* into mediocrity.

One should never, never, never try to make more acceptable one's own bad (fixable) conditions by saying that conditions are even worse in other places!

I, for one, do not live in any of the other (even worse) places! I live right here and I want OUR pothole problems addressed before any other luxury items are being borrowed for yet again.

Basically, I really don't care how many potholes Kamloops has. That's their problem, just the same as Kamloops doesn't give a hoot about our crunchers.

It would be better to concentrate on the things that affect us, rather than fish around for some nebulous feel-good comparisons.

That is my opinion. Thanks, everyone!
Heard a good idea on the news this weekend. It was in regards to potholes in a city in the States. KFC has offered to fix all the potholes if KFC can paint thier logo on top of the fix...interesting idea I thought and why not?
I was in Edmonton two weeks ago, and there PH problem is everybit as bad or worse than PG.
At least our City plows the subdivisions something not done in Edmonton.

Prince George doesn't have to many potholes it has to many
WHINERS!
"Prince George doesn't have to many potholes it has to many
WHINERS!"
AMEN to that. We also have too many that have all of the answers and could do the job(any job) so much better than what is being done now.

Chug, Ben was being a journalist by reporting what it is like in other cities. Ben didn't say that the problem here wasn't bad. He only reported what efforts are being made elsewhere and then compared PG's efforts to those. Jeeez, cut him some slack. Maybe you could start your own blog and use your knowledge of journalism there.
Maybe comparing potholes between cities has a point you all are missing. Perhaps, by looking at other towns that have the same problem we can see that our problem is not unique, and that we are not necessarily suffering such an avoidable disaster that we have to declare a regional emergency every darn spring. Maybe it is a way to suggest that we ought not to act like we are sooooo bad off that someone in power should be shot. Or maybe it suggests that all the armchair road experts out there are not justified in suggesting that it would be an easy problem to fix but for the complete idiots in charge of road repair etc etc.
As for calling Ben a pothole: smarten up. You observations of journalism bear no resemblance to logic. What i read is: "Ben, you are not saying what i want you to say, so you are a lousy journalist". By the way, comparisons in prices and pothole between cities serves to indicate whether we are being treated unfairly or perhas being mismanaged. WIthout some idea of what is 'normal' we can not determine whether we are being ripped off. In a supply and demand economy an average valuation for goods or services is required to determine fairness.
Could someone could tell me if the actual composition of the asphault used over the past years has changed? I have often wondered if anyone has been doing research to better improve the cold weather characteristics of asphault. Perhaps a research grant from the city for UNBC to study ( great just what we neeed ) ashphault and potholes and maybe P.G and UNBC could patent a better solution for cold weather towns.
I drive around a lot and have seen crews out there every time. Pretty soon we will be hearing complaints about the traffic delays and how the crews are fixing the problem.

We do have too many whiners. I keep hearing people state that the roads in other cities aren't nearly as bad as ours so we must be doing something wrong, and Ben points out that other cites do, in fact, have just as much of a problem. Those insisting they are going to move because our roads are so bad will be disappointed I'm sure.

I don't like the potholes, and I am constantly swerving to miss them, however, I am no expert and won't sit and pretend that I have all the answers.
For a little while there was a fairly lively and from-the-bottom-of-the-heart comments discussion going on here.

Then something happened:

"Prince George doesn't have to(sic) many potholes it has to(sic) many WHINERS!"
I’ll just bet Chug that Meisner is sitting their laughing at your post and your level of intelligence.
Your comment that his editorials are glossy and superficial and this one is no different must make him laugh, keep reading them, I’m sure that’s what he had in mind.
Good post caranmacil.

I really like Ben's editorials. For the most part the subjects are homegrown and pertain to me or my family and friends. I like that sometimes he takes something controversial and puts it out there for discussion. As for glossy and superficial...I don't think so, maybe at times gritty and at other times entertaining as well as usually thought provoking and of interest to most of the residents of this city.


I find the statistics in the latest article on other city's potholes interesting and informative. It's nice to know how the other half lives. Enquiring minds want to know.
"I really like Ben's editorials. For the most part the subjects are homegrown and pertain to me or my family and friends. I like that sometimes he takes something controversial and puts it out there for discussion."

I fully agree! I did not see any posts here that suggest that anyone has ALL the answers to the PH problems.

More money and effort should go towards the PH problem BEFORE any other huge borrowing projects are embarked on.

If that opinion is whining, so be it.
yes the actual comosition of asphalt has changed over the years plus the calcium they spray softens the asphalt.

I had two asphalt roofs, one done in the 50's and one in 1980. The 50's was replaced last year and the 1980 replaced in 2000. Even in 1980 we were told that the asphalt wasn't as strong and would not last as long. Reason-it seems we want to breath and be healthy so things have been removed.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think the point of Ben's article was to simply point out that despite what many people spout on Opinion 250, we don't have the worst roads in the country.

That doesn't mean that the roads are good, nor does it imply that they shouldn't be fixed. What it does suggest is that there are issues other than "City of PG mismanagement" at work. Like everything in life, the solution to problems is not always as simple as it would first appear. If it were that simple, surely there wouldn't be so many cities facing the same problem.

trackster said "Prince George doesn't have to many potholes it has to many
WHINERS!"

Yes how dare we pay taxes and then expect to drive on roads that don't damage our vehicles. The arrogance.
Why are we still filling potholes the same way we did 30 years ago? Shame on our Universities for not doing a study and coming up with a better solution. It's an absolute embarassment to see the lack of progress in an area as basic as our roadways. Comon all you scholars, put your thinking caps on. There must be research money available for something as basic as pothole filler.
Sorry Ben that you had to be insulted so much in this post. You people should really be ashamed of yourselves.
Posted by: trackster on March 30 2009 10:30 AM
I was in Edmonton two weeks ago, and there PH problem is everybit as bad or worse than PG.
At least our City plows the subdivisions something not done in Edmonton.

Prince George doesn't have to many potholes it has to many
WHINERS!


Thats Edmontons problem, not ours.
" Posted by: kagee on March 30 2009 12:59 PM
yes the actual comosition of asphalt has changed over the years plus the calcium they spray softens the asphalt.

I had two asphalt roofs, one done in the 50's and one in 1980. The 50's was replaced last year and the 1980 replaced in 2000. Even in 1980 we were told that the asphalt wasn't as strong and would not last as long. Reason-it seems we want to breath and be healthy so things have been removed."

The calcium they spray softens the asphalt???
The only thing I know of that will soften asphalt is heat or petroleum based products. Calcium is niether. Do you have a source to back that up?

Do you realize that asphalt is a product leftover from the refining of crude oil?
Asphalt is an oil product that is the base used in the production of blacktop and other products such as your asphalt roof.

It's not the asphalt that has changed but the end product of which asphalt is a part of that has changed. Asphalt is used as a binder and waterproofing substance in blacktop and shingles.

Blacktop, (not asphalt) cracks due to expansion and contraction caused by temperature variations.
Cold temps cause the blacktop to contract and therefore causes the cracks you see from shoulder to shoulder across the road.

When these cracks are not sealed it allows water to enter and get underneath the blacktop. The freezing of this water is what causes all the damage you see before us.
Because the city has not sealed/resealed these cracks, it is due to their lack of doing the required maintenance that has given us the road conditions we have today.