Clear Full Forecast

Housing Starts Down More Than 68 Percent In P.G.

By 250 News

Friday, May 08, 2009 09:42 AM

Prince George, B.C.- Housing starts were down  68.8%  in Prince George last month compared to Aprl of 2008, and the year to date starts for Prince George are down 70.5%.
 
Those numbers are just some of the B.C. details in the Canada Mortgage and Housing stats released today. The only B.C. community showing any increase at all in starts last month was Vernon with a net increase of 16.4%  and that due to an increase in multiple family developments.
 
 “Starts numbers so far this year are consistent with CMHC’s forecast. However, the rate of decline is expected to moderate in the remainder of the year,” said Robyn Adamache, Senior Market Analyst with CMHC. “New home construction is facing competition from a well-supplied resale market and a growing inventory of unsold new homes. Builders will remain on the sidelines until some of the existing new andresale supply is absorbed.”
 

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Press release –

Canfor - Interfor - West Fraser Timber - Forest Industry CEOs correct the record on forestry issues

The three signatories to this statement wish to set the record straight on what is occurring in our industry today and what we see as critical for it to survive and thrive in the future.

First, to those who are quick to blame the current B.C. government for the woes of our industry we can only say it is either a clear demonstration of their lack of understanding of BC’s core business, or that they are willing to play politics with the lives of the thousands of people who depend on forestry. Simply put, B.C.’s forest sector is blessed by having the world’s largest housing market as a neighbour. That also means we are heavily dependent upon the U.S. home-building market which has collapsed. That collapse is not something our governments can fix.

Secondly, the NDP has advocated opening up the Softwood Lumber Agreement and we cannot help but think that indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of the agreement. To renege on that deal today would be high risk in the extreme and would undoubtedly lead to costly legal wrangling and duties at the border which in turn would further jeopardize the economic stability of B.C. companies, their employees and the communities in which they live and work.

We have modern, efficient mills today that are the result of the confidence provided by our tenure system in B.C. Without that certainty, our three companies could not have invested the hundreds of millions of dollars to build and rebuild the mills we have in the last few years. The NDP have talked of blowing up the tenure system in B.C. and we can tell you that there has never been a more powerful reminder of the lack of a strong business investment climate we had during the NDP government of the 1990s. They do not seem to appreciate the link between security of tenure and the ability to encourage the investment required to remain competitive in a global business. The NDP forestry policies of the past discouraged investment in B.C. and resulted in significant costs being imposed on our industry. Those costs damaged our ability to compete. Many of the policies being put forward by the NDP of today are just as discouraging.

Finally, we would be remiss if we did not credit Premier Gordon Campbell for being a champion for our industry. The Premier has set the course in opening up Asian markets, in developing new uses for BC wood products, in expanding BC as a showcase for the use of wood products whether it be in iconic structures like the expanded convention centre or Olympic skating oval. For the first time in our history, our provincial government has aWood First policy that ensures B.C .government building projects first consider how best to use wood products and in that manner establish B.C. as a global showcase for the use of wood products.

In conclusion, our industry is in the midst of the worst crisis since the Great Depression. We are going to get through this and we believe there is a bright future for forestry in B.C. and for the tens of thousands of us who depend directly upon it. It will be a different industry with new products, new applications and new, growing markets. But realizing that future requires everyone working together and strong leadership.

Our entire industry and those who are employed within it have benefited from the leadership of Gordon Campbell and his team. We appreciate that leadership as being critically important to the future and sincerely hope that British Columbians will ensure it continues.

Duncan Davies
President & CEO Chair
Interfor

Hank Ketcham
President & CEO
West Fraser Timber

Jim Shepard
President & CEO
Canfor
how is this propoganda relevant to the above story.....really how shameful of the canfor big wigs to take advantage of a community paper...a community they don't care about!
I think these 3 CEOs are more concerned that they lose their monopoly over the business in BC, and under NDP, small businesses get the opportunity to breath and compete with them. They have spent hundreds of thousands of Dollars on attack ads on NDP Democrats over the past few weeks. Money which should have been spent on keeping the mills open or half open especially in communities where the economy relies on the mills.

The reality is that the present BC government is out of balance in terms of advancing the workers concerns and democracy vs protecting the BC business interests. Geord Campbell is out of balance with liberal policies in other provinces and has effectively turned the BC Liberal party into a Georg Bush
party.

Georg Bush had the oil CEOs lobbying for him and Geord Campbell has the Forestry CEOs. Who wants to vote for Geord Campbell Bush party? 8 years is more than enough.
The CEO attacks on NDP Democrats is the same failed policy used attacking the Democrats in the US.

Liberals, in this election vote for NDP Democrats, the party for democracy; because the Liberal party under Campbell has been turned into an anti-liberal,
anti-democratic party.
As President and CEO of a small business myself, and the person responsible for the well being of many other families besides my own, I can relate to this press release in its entirety !

It is absolutely CRUCIAL to all my emoloyees, their families, and their dependents, that I do not foolishly squander away their futures, by playing petty politics, twisting half-truths so far out of proportion they become threats to the very security they need to protect their jobs, homes, and income, or fritter away their trust in me to simply do the right thing no matter what threatens that security.

Most of us well remember the stifling years of strikes, lockouts, and endless confict between employers, and employees ten to twenty years ago, and are very concerned we could be right back in the thick of it again, very soon after the election if the Unions take control of this Province again. How quickly we've forgotten just how bad it was, since we've been enjoying such relative peace for the last eight years or so. Very soon now, there will be three billion pairs of eyes trained on BC during the olympics, and the last thing we can afford to have happen is to have a union strike threatening us at that time. We were the joke of all the Canadian Provinces during the nineties, and the last thing we need to be is the joke of the entire world in 2010.

I suggest we take special care this time around, because if we "blow it" next week, that'll be the end of the hopes for economic recovery for all of us for literally years to come.
It really surprises me that housing starts are down so much. HMMMMMM I wonder why??????
Hmmmmm, only if the three CEO's turn around say to the province. If the NDP gets in, we will lay off every single worker in the province.

that is the only way you will get the message across to the membership.
Its funny that people that vote for the NDP looks at the government money, as if it comes out of thin air. Its funny that the supportors of the NDP do not talk about the fact that a larger percentage of our tax dollars are being spent on healthcare, than when the NDP was in power.

I too own a small business in town, and shudder at the thought of a Socialist government. In no ways is Gordo the best leader, but he is still better than the alternative.

The ideal world is, Gordo wins the election, than start grooming two or three candidates to take over as leader with in the year, three years from now announce his retirement coming up. Than give the horses a chance to run before they go into the next election!





if more money is actually being spent on healthcare how come there are 3 year waiting lists for seniors to get surgery? How come there are wait lists for doctors in this town, there is a nursing shortage, there are people in the hallways at the hospital and it is constantly in what they call code grid lock.....where is that money going...cuz its clearly NOT going into the healthcare system!
Yes, it is a three year waiting list which is better than the five years. The shortage of doctors, were making them now, while the other govenment would still be scratching there heads. Nurses, there is no shortage of nurses, its a union issue.
3CEOs making big $$ and advertise and campaign on Opinion 250 - shame on them !!
That is how they treat their workers - "try to get it for nothing".
I wonder if they have any workers not working and are helping them out?
Very unlikely!!
I am not an expert on health issues. But some of the money spent in creating a beauracracy in North health could have spent better in hiring more nurses and doctors in the north and paying their
wages.

For example, I have seen professors getting research grants from North. Health with no previous grant awarded to them from Canadian national research
councils in health or non-health issues, or even with no previous record in
health research. How come?
Hello socialist people. In order to reduce 3yr wait lists you have to train doctors. That is what Liberals have been doing... Medical program at UNBC, Expanded hospital, now the Cancer clinic. What more do you think they should do. If it was not for the fact we have 2 MLAs Pat and Shirley in senior government Prince George would still be in the 80s.
Hello WoodWoman,
I posted the news release I got from the paper. Funny how socialists always look for the negative in things.
I think the nursing shortage has more to do with people choosing not to enter the nursing profession than it does a lack of dough. I mean really, do any of you know any nurses who are actively seeking work and can't find it? Maybe the nursing profession should try and figure out why people don't want to become nurses.

As for docs, the government did create a program in our community to gradudate more of them. That's not exactly an insignificant step.

What about health care facilities? PGRH has been expanded, we are getting a Cancer Treatment facility, additional assisted living beds are being built as we speak (which will help move people out of the hospital in order to free up beds for others) and isn't Fort St. John getting a brand new hospital as well?

I'll agree that health care isn't perfect (and it needs more work), but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the current government HAS done things to improve health care in our region.
It comes at no surprise that the Geord Campbell supporters use the same tactics and borrow a page from Geor. Campbell Bush's book calling people socialist. In the US, the attack line by the Republicans Under Georg Bush was by calling people "liberal" meaning socialist.

This election vote NDP, if you are a true anti Geord Bush "Liberal".
if more money is actually being spent on healthcare how come there are 3 year waiting lists for seniors to get surgery? How come there are wait lists for doctors in this town, there is a nursing shortage, there are people in the hallways at the hospital and it is constantly in what they call code grid lock.....where is that money going...cuz its clearly NOT going into the healthcare system!
if more money is actually being spent on healthcare how come there are 3 year waiting lists for seniors to get surgery? How come there are wait lists for doctors in this town, there is a nursing shortage, there are people in the hallways at the hospital and it is constantly in what they call code grid lock.....where is that money going...cuz its clearly NOT going into the healthcare system!
I think one of the problems behind the nurse shortage is the hours of work. Many places work 12 hour shifts nad employees have to rotate from one to another. My nurse friend finds this very hard. It is also hard for her to get overnight day care.
The government who happens to be the majority party has control over the purse to spend money and control over the tax. The problems will be solved, if they pay those nurses and doctors a better bonus for living in remote areas or to lower their taxes for those in remote areas, instead of introducing a beauracracy for old boys network.

BTW, UBC medical program in UNBC is a replica of the UBC medical program in Univ of Victoria and it is different than North. Health. Don't confuse the two, the former is run by UBC, a university in Vancouver and the latter North Health by BC government. The former a valuable contribution, the latter not a good way
to spend the tax payer's money.

BC government can put 10 cents or so on feul in Vancouver, they can reduce the taxes for essential occuptations in the remote areas, and the overall result in budget is negligent considering the number of nurses/doctors and they can create job opportunities in the North.
This is in response to a re post by free enterprise of Canfor - Interfor - West Fraser Timber - Forest Industry CEOs correct the record on forestry issues

The industry and government has more than halfed the number of employees who worked within the forest industry since 2001. The communities hit the hardest are the areas that are significantly distanced from the bigger centers like P.G. and the lower mainland.
I have worked in the Industry for more than thirty five years in various communities performing various duties during my tenure and I have been heard similar forward looking visions and promises like this many times before. These promises are always underlined and supported with the words like, things will get better, there will be new products and applications and new growing markets. The problem with these words are they are political in nature and in essence are completely meaningless and empty of any form of sustenance.
The reference to the great depression indicates that some thing similar to our existing situation has happened before, gee, I wonder what that was? It is not surprising to those who know that if you continue to do the same things over and over and over again you are going to get the same result. Yes we have been here before and here we are once again in the same situation, the dirty 2009's instead of the dirty thirties. Why, we ask are we here repeating something this distasteful all over again? I strongly believe that it's because we refuse to change the way we operate on a personal level within the world we live. We continue to rape the world for profit, we continue to allow people to starve because they are the wrong color, we continue to treat each other with a complete lack of dignity and respect....and on and on we go.
Business is set up in such a manner that the company or corporation needs to control every aspect of the said business, including how people think. This type of environment is caustic and very uncaring of anything meaningful and is focused solely on the all mighty dollar.
Corporate leaders know that people who are suffering in anyway will accept anything that will allow them to feel or think things are getting better for themselves. The Industry goes to great lengths to ensure that the sheep (which are the floor managers and the hourly persons) are contained while the wolves (who are the Corporate leader's and the General managers) patrol the perimeter, looking for the next meal. The wolves are completely dominant and the sheep are completely submissive, and both are trained to play the same game but both use completely different rules. What both parties fail to realize is that they need each other to survive but I have yet to see either party completely come together to solve a problem as a group, for the right reasons.
When the corporate leaders say that all need to work together to realize a better future what is really being said is, do what we are telling you to do, do not make your own decisions if it differs from ours and don't rock the boat, or else.
Only certain select Corporations and the employees who work within these Corporations have benefited from Gordos leadership, the majority of people have not benefited from this leader at all. You are right in the sense that Gordos leadership is beneficial to to the future of your corporate greed, but that is all.

Please keep in mind when you vote that your vote is yours and it can not be taken away from you unless you allow yourself to be swayed by someone else's motives. If you vote based on all that is important to you then you have not "blown anything" but in fact you have remained true to yourself.

I have voted for just about every party option available over the years and have found that it matters not who gets in but how you feel about how you voted and why you voted the way you did matters most. In the end it is no ones business who a person voted for but the voter himself or herself.

Happy voting all


I wouldn't object to more incentives being put in place to attract people into the health care profession, BUT you still have to have people that want to work in that field. I find it hard to believe that some minor tax breaks would make all the difference for skilled workers that will make at least 60-80K a year as it is (that's without working any OT).

Where I think we could offer incentives is on the educational front. Why not cover part of the tuition for people wanting to get into health care in BC when they enroll in a BC post secondary institution to acquire their skills and education? If they stay and practice in BC for a certain period of time after grad, cover the whole works. Maybe retention bonuses would also be good for those working in underrepresented regions. We should also look at the overhead and see how much of that is really needed and/or whether it's too top heavy. It's easy to sit here and say that it is, but the health authority does still need people to adminster their finances, the IT systems, their payroll, real estate services, etc. Nurses and docs can't do that.

We also can't forget the demographic factor and the fact that like virtually every profession, our health care system has been and will continue to see a mass exodus as a result of retirements. Every government in the last 10-15 years should have seen this coming and planned for it accordingly. They didn't and now we're feeling the pinch.
Hey, I have an idea. Lets all vote NDP and go back to a 'have nothing province' with all our young graduates flocking to Alberta. Maybe we could charge 100 dollars a night for using a self-contained forestry campground. Man, I sure miss those days! Gordo's a freak but he's way,way,way above the NDP.
Stll; I wouldn't give my vote to anyone who lied to me before and neither should anyone else. If you accept that you will always have a liar for a premier and your children will believe it is OK to lie when it results in personal gain or power. I guess that's what British Columbians want because that's who they vote for: LIARS.
If free enterprise means giving away BCR and filling your friends pockets with money - vote Gordo. If F.E. means the largest rate of child poverty in Canada even when times were good - vote Gordo. If F.E. means giving away our rivers to yankees - vote Gordo. If F. E. means the largest cost over runs in the history of B.C. - vote Gordo.
If F.E. means giving away our trees so we can shut down local sawmills - vote gordo.
unfortunately the list goes on and on!!!
Remember people and pseudointellectuals - democracy is for the people by the people; not for the few by the giant corporations and their offshore boardrooms.
There are shortages of medical personnel for many reasons. One approach is to increase incentives to attract them, the other approach is to fast track immigrants from third world countries and fast track accepting their qualifications so they wont end up driving taxis. In some areas there are nurses only available and with no medical doctors or trained doctors.

300,000 people in Northern BC need somewhere around 900-1200 medical doctors if we consider 3-4 per 1000 people. It will take around 30 years to educate them with current output assuming that all stay put and wont head south.

1000 immigrants with MD from India or Bangladesh could be a much quicker fix at a time when BC brings thousands from Mexico to collect fruits, even as temporary measure.
"1000 immigrants with MD from India or Bangladesh could be a much quicker fix"

If their qualifications are equivalent to what a comparable doctor in Canada would have, then yeah, that is a good idea.
There is a huge incentive to enter the healthcare profession - double digit unemployment. Nobody should be on here complaining about being out of a job.

Healthcare and education are financial blackholes - no matter how much money you pour into them, people will still bitch about the service. It won't matter if wait times are 3 years or 3 minutes, its never good enough.
Interesting headline.

Are we concerned about not enough housing for the healthy professionals? Seems ot be the case reading this thread.

More than 68% reduction in housing start from one year to the next.

The table says 68.8% .....

Neat .... for the first time in some time it looks like PG is doing better than Urban BC which is coming in at at drop if 72.8% in April.

So why is the heading of the article not "despite dropping housing starts, PG is faring slightly better than the average urban BC figure"?

???? ...... ??????

A word of warning. Do not force people who do not like to work in healthcare inot that kind of work.

There is a higher probability of the people with 4 years of some very specialized training ending up quitting their job. That is expensive for the system.

There is also a higher probability that you will not get good care since their heart really is not into helping people. Their heart is more into making more money.

Getting good service requires more than money. To get good service, the motivator needs to be interest in helping other humans.
Your comments, Nowicki, remind me of a famous quote from the a previous UK Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher.

" The trouble with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of everybody else's money" !!
While I'm not an NDP supporter, I would like to ask a few question to those who see Gordo as the messiah.

-Why are the job stimulus, debt creating, infrastructure projects being awarded, on a large scale, to U.S. companies?

-Why are none of the legislature raid court case details being reported in the media?

-Why during the last resource boom,with record price highs, not a single new mine opened in the province?

-If this government is so business friendly why didn't head offices flock to the "BEST PLACE ON EARTH"?

-Why do we need to finance private industry, by giving them above average rates to produce run of river power projects ? This isn't even firm constant generation. If they can't get by at market rate, why ruin our rivers, and give up our water rights?

-Why does it cost 100x the rate it is in the U.S. to get info under the freedom of information, and usually you don't get the info anyway? Clear and transparent government? Har-dee-har-har.

-Why the carbon tax B.S.?

I hope the Libs win the next election. That will test their true competence. I have my doubts.

P.S. The media love the liberals and don't let the public know the half of it!
"Why are the job stimulus, debt creating, infrastructure projects being awarded, on a large scale, to U.S. companies?"

I am not familiar with that. Can you provide some examples which prove that is is on a large scale? Say 30% or more are awarded to US companies.

---------------
"Why are none of the legislature raid court case details being reported in the media?"

Dunno. Because watching paint dry is boring to most people?

However, it could also be because you do not read all the media. Link for your reading pleasure from the Vancouver Sun about a week ago.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/bc-election/Kinsella+brought+Basi+Virk+trial/1550137/story.html

--------------
"Why during the last resource boom,with record price highs, not a single new mine opened in the province?"

Ask the mining companies. Maybe they were waiting for a Green or an NDP party to change mining regulations?

Actually I think it was because it takes a long time to open mines and the resource boom of which you speak was only a few years long.

If you do not believe that it was rather short, read the stats on exploration spending which is the first step required when mining companies begin to look for new investments.

In case you are trying to equate mining activity to governments in power, exploration slowed down in the last three years of NDP government and increased in each year of the BCLiberal government until 2008 which saw the world economies change.

http://www.empr.gov.bc.ca/Mining/MineralStatistics/IndustryOverviews/Pages/BCProvTrends.aspx

---------------
"If this government is so business friendly why didn't head offices flock to the "BEST PLACE ON EARTH"?"

Now there is an easy one. Because for national and international firms, head offices locate where they conduct most of their business. Why would Bombardier move their head office to Vancouver when the Canadian part of their business is centred in the province of Quebec?

Give me some examples of national or internationl companies that would benefit from having their head office in BC despite the fact that their BC operation is a small part of their buisness.

-------------
Now I will test your competence. Figure the last ones out yourself. Do some research. I helped you on the first four.
Okay, so I didn't help you on your first question. Just called your bluff on that one. :-)
BTW, SNC Lavalin, a Canadian company headquartered in Montreal since that is where the company started, is the firm in charge of the Canada Line.

http://www.snclavalin.com/contact.php?lang=en

This is the kind of company required to work on complex civil projects because they have the skills as well as the financial capacity to be successful with such projects.
"Your comments, Nowicki, remind me of a famous quote from the a previous UK Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher."

Palomino, the closest you can get to Margaret Thatcher and his conservative right wing party in the UK is George Bush and Brian Mulroney in North America. Next time don't hesitate to quote from Bush to support the election of Campbell or invite him to give a lecture.

I found it ironic that someone supporting a Liberal party leader quotes from Margaret Thatcher instead of quoting
Tony Blair. This shows how Campbell has covered himself in liberal dressing and fooling the Liberal grassroots. Vote Democrat this election, if you are a true liberal.
"I found it ironic that someone supporting a Liberal party leader"

Nowicki ... don't obfuscate the the case in the hopes that people are stupid.

The party is called the BCLiberals not the Liberals. You know as well as I do and hopefully most other people in BC who have the smallest bit on interest in the Party that the Liberal Party in BC died when the party that was resurrected by Gordon Wilson was taken over by a defunct group of Social Credit supporters who had the rug pulled out from under them. The BCLiberals is in fact, not by name a coalition of the right and the centre.

To make it out to be anything other than that is either ignorant or arrogant and comes accross as political posturing.
This forum is supposed to be about housing stats, not a political forum.

Me thinks all you Liberal junkies are getting frightened! eh!
The right in the US is associated with the Republicans, the left with democrats. The right in Canada is also called conservative. So you are telling us that the BC Liberals under Campbell are closer to the Republicans than to the Democrats in the US. The US Democrats who are attacked as being Liberals.

That is fine. It is election time and
this should be spelled out clearly for the voters. This BC election do you want to vote for a party following the Republican policies [the party of oil/forestry CEOs]
or Democratic policies [the party of
liberty, democracy and human rights]?

If you disagree, then spell it out clearly instead of personal attacking. Attack the opinion and not the speaker. For the record I remember that gus in the past argued in this forum that Prince George's population in this century will reach one Million and I disagreed with his opinion.
The only good thing about the BC Liberals is that "..defunct bunch of Social Credit supporters who had the rug pulled out from under them.." are back where they belong.

These people NEVER were "Social Crediters", they didn't know the first thing about 'social credit'; they were, and are, just a group of narrow-minded, self-serving, pocket-pickers who were looking for the most marketable label-of-convenience to coalesce under.

They found it in a latter-day, so-called, BC Social Credit Party. Fortunately, for BC, there was still a small measure of the original 'Social Credit' still left, then, (people like the late Cyril Shelford), to stave off their making a more complete disaster of the three year interlude we suffered under the NDP's Dave Barrett.

Go back in history, before WAC Bennett's BC Social Credit LEAGUE, (not "Party"), was first elected in 1952, and you'll get a taste of the same kind of doings under the BC Liberal Party then that we've witnessed repeatedly today. The leopard doesn't change his spots.
Nowicki .... guess what country we are in.

Ther is absolutely no comparison to be made with the two party system in the USA and the multi party system in Canada.

The term "liberal" in the USA has exactly that meaning dictionary meaning ..

liberal = "Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded."

conservative = "Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change."

Then we come to parties.

REFORM - My take on the reform is that while they are (were) right wing they were really conservative to the extreme, nothing reform about them at all.

Progressive Conservative - remember them? How can one be conservative but progressive? Somehting like "cautiously optimistic"?

Now we have the Conservatives - a mix of Reform and Progressive Conservatives.

Then we have the Social Credit.

And the NDP - New Democratic Party.

And the BCLiberals

And the Parti Quebecois

NDP - should actually be NDPBC since that is the formal name. New Democratic Party of BC. Why is that not being used?

Democratic - Are there parties that are not democratic? Or is this the "democratric" as used in names such as the old "German Democratic Republic" (the old east or communist Germany)?

Perhaps a better name for the NDP would be NSP - New Socialist Party.

Or maybe the Democratic Reform British Columbia party has it right, or left, or centrist.

Which, of course, leads us to the PDA Progressive Democratic Alliance.

What's in a name? Want to know something about a political party? How about starting with the constitution and then the policies?

Names are absolutely meaningless since they are the first part of any party's spin. First impressions.

BTW, these are supposedly current parties that have that have nominated candidates.

Bloc British Columbia Party
British Columbia Party
British Columbia Refederation Party
BC Unity Party
Canadian Alliance Party of British Columbia
Centre Democratic Party
Citizens Action Party
Communist Party of British Columbia
Democratech Party of British Columbia
Emerged Democracy Party of British Columbia
Freedom Party of British Columbia
Green Party of British Columbia
Libertarian Party
Marijuana Party
British Columbia Marxist-Leninist Party
Moderate Democratic Movement
Natural Law Party of British Columbia
Patriot Party
People's Front
Platinum Party of Employers Who Think and Act to Increase Awareness
Renewal Party of British Columbia
Sex Party
Western Canada Concept Party of British Columbia
Western Refederation Party of British Columbia
Work Less Party of British Columbia
Your Political Party of British Columbia
Youth Coalition
Nowicki ...

I said: "To make it out to be anything other than that is either ignorant or arrogant and comes accross as political posturing."

Based on your posts, it most defintely is political posturing.

If you do not realize you are doing it, then you do not know it and you are ignorant of that fact. It is an apporpriate use of the word "ignorant" = someone who does not know. In fact, it may be someone who does not know that they do not know. Then they are innocently ignorant.

In your case, I think there is nothing innocent about it at all, however. Igt looks to me, based on the contnet of your posts at various times over the past year+, you choose to keep a closed mind and try to redirect others to your way of thinking. That is fine. You have an agenda. Nothing wrong with that. But, I am attacking that agenda. Nothing wrong with that either in a debate.

As far as arrogance goes. You come accross as being arrogant just as much as I do at times. Just by responding this way to you, some people will consider me arrogant.

arrogant = having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance
Nowicki ...

"That is fine. It is election time and
this should be spelled out clearly for the voters."

Those voters who are interested in who they are voting for and truly participate in a democratic process will know. it is spelled out clearly in policies brought forward.

Those who are not that interested but do vote, I think they know which one is a right of centre as opposed to left of centre party.

"This BC election do you want to vote for a party following the Republican policies"

Why the refernce to the USA again?

"[the party of oil/forestry CEOs] or Democratic policies [the party of
liberty, democracy and human rights]?"

Why is everything black and white to you?

Do you believe in policies that are sustainable? If it is sustainable, one has to deal with all of those. Here we go with the "new" in the NDPBC name. What is "new" about that division? A community, a city, a province, a country and a world must be run in an integrated fashion.

You are still in the old antagonistic, head butting era. That simply will not work in a more complex and faster paced world.