$51.3 million dollars. The Performing Arts Society, obviously have no sense of fiscal reality. Where do they expect the city and the local taxpayers will find $51.3 million?

We have a 10% unemployment rate, combined with recent hefty City Council approved tax hikes. With unemployment so high, the very last thing that we need is an iconic structure for a bunch of ballet dancers.

Come on PAC let's at least try to be realistic!

$51.3 Million

$51.3 Million?

$51.3 Million?

$51.3 Million. It does not matter how many times that you say the price, it just does not smell right!

A Performing Arts Center? Right on! NOT!

This is the biggest waste of money I've ever heard of. It's really not that hard to figure out. I've said it before and I'll say it again. We can add something really cool and exciting to this town and at the same time expand tourism. All we have to do is take that 51.3 million and put it towards an indoor water park or something of that nature. Make it spectacular! Make it amazing. Make it something that people will want to come from all over to see.

How many people go to Edmonton just to go there? They go there to see that giant bloody mall they have. It's an atraction. Is a PAC an atraction? Not at all. It's for a few people to enjoy and that's it. No one from out of town is going to come see it. Wouldn't it be great if people said, "hey let's go to PG and see that awesome new indoor water park/amusement center" Mind you it may cost more than 51.3 million, but at least it would be a draw.

All I'm getting at is that you have to give people a reason to come to this town. No ammount of trails, bike tracks, theatres, or statues are going to do that. Give people some family fun and entertainment. Market it properly. If we build it, they will come.

Just this guys opinion.

Why is this still an issue? 51.3 million!
When we can't even fill Vanier hall.

It looks like this is going to be rammed down our throats whether we like it or not.

Councilor Brian Skakun spoke up to say the City is “extremely financially challenged.”

I hope someone is listening.

I fear we are going to have this shoved right down out throats until we choke up the money they want.
I don't think we really need this...definitely not at this price...if they can come up with the money to do this and it doesn't cost me more in taxes...then go for it...I am not prepared to be taxed for something I have absoluetly no desire or chance of ever using...
'IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT THEY REALLY DON'T NEED IT"

That is kind of how things work in my household.

"$51.3 Million. It does not matter how many times that you say the price, it just does not smell right"

That's because you seem to be confused about the actual details. The range is actually $42.1M to $51.2M AND the city would NOT be funding the entire amount on its' own like you seem to be suggesting. Until the detailed case is put together, we don't even know what the required contribution by the city (and thus city taxpayers) would be. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?

"Is a PAC an atraction? Not at all. It's for a few people to enjoy and that's it. No one from out of town is going to come see it"

Actually yeah it would be. People come from out of town to watch concerts and events at CN Centre so why would they not come to town to watch events at a modern PAC? People from PG also travel to other cities to enjoy events at their PAC equivalents so it's pretty obvious that facilities like these can draw people in.

The presenters were on the mark tonight. That Graber guy seems pretty smart.

How about if we take away a soccer field or two or maybe a hockey rink or maybe even a baseball field? Way too much was spent on those.

Looks to me like the roads are being fixed. Rome wasn't built in a day. Be patient.

Mr. Rogers is doing a fine job. I am glad he's in our neighborhood.

Nobody dared mention the elephant in the room: How are the existing facilities (Vanier Hall, Theatre Northwest, Playhouse Theatre...) going to *survive* when the mighty modern PAC opens its doors?

Most of these are rarely ever fully used most of the time.

Some roads are being fixed, others are being left as is, year after year.

Obviously the Hart is not Mr. Rogers' neighbourhood.

Why don't we pay for these with a latte tax, or maybe a night club or movie consumption tax so that those that want this kind of entertainment are the ones paying for it and not the one just trying to maintain their home?

i think its all been said. the parties in involved need to give their heads a shake.

"Night Club"????

We are in PG in 2009 ... not in 1979 when people still
1. knew what a night club was
2. had night clubs to go to
3. went to night clubs

movies???? we just went to a movie recently since there happened to be a good movie playing here for a change. Somehow the ones we think are good rarely come here.

There was a double/triple line up outside down to the parking lot with youngsters waiting to get in to see the transformers .... hardly the crowd that would frequent a performing arts centre ... very likely to buy tickets to a rock concert or two at the CN Centre

A performing arts centre is more likely to cater to an older crowd interested in remembering when they were young.

For instance, Simon & Garfunkel are touring right now - New Zealand, Australia, Japan. Garfunkel was touring in the USA and will be in Richmond Hill's new PAC in October.

http://richmondhill.ticketwindow.ca/default.asp?SearchText=garfunkel

Here is Garfunkel's tour with links to many of the theatres in which he performed.

http://www.artgarfunkel.com/concerts.html

Mr Rogers and his neighbourhood better put this to a referendum vote and then we can finally get this BS out of our hair because we all know it will be voted down.

"Looks to me like the roads are being fixed."

Are you kidding me! The corner of Domano and Gladstone by the store is a 4x4 only intersection and believe it or not they painted new road markings on this mess.

The plan to spend even a potion of 50 million bucks right now is ridiculous. That money should be put to road rehabilitation.

Did they not just announce a 15% tax increase and are now suggesting another 7% to pay for this building.

Although I agree that a building like this would be beneficial, do it when we can afford it.

NMG ....There is only one taxpayer!! It does not matter where the $51.3 million comes from (City, Province or Feds), the taxpayer (you and I) are the ones paying 100% of the cost for this untimely monumment.

Try rolling 250 BILLION DOLLARS off of your tongue because that is what Canada is in the red for. Provincially and Federally we are going to be running in the negative this year and probably the next. All we here is how the public (normal everyday people) have been so stupid to get them selves in debt yet our leaders have spent us into oblivion!! Now our city planners are running wild on a spending spree planning on borrowing over 120,000,000.00 dollars for the Arts Centre, 11klm paved trail, police station and downtown beautification plans. When will they stop? How much more economic failure do they have to see before they think? How many more jobs have to be lost? How many more people have to leave here to find work before they clue in? STOP THE SPENDING!!

Omg! At the moment Canada's debt is 576.8 billion dollars!!

http://www.newlearner.com/courses/hts/cia4u/ecoho79.htm

National debts ......

Here are the national external debts for the 13 top countries based on CIA published data in US$

The debt is shown as a debt per person, agina using CIA population data.

1 Japan $11,741
2 Italy $18,236
3 Canada $22,653
4 United States $39,875
5 Australia $48,536
6 Germany $54,525
7 Spain $61,147
8 France $83,831
9 Belgium $126,076
10 Netherlands $136,217
11 United Kingdom $170,994
12 Switzerland $176,212
13 Ireland $438,000

Makes Canada look very good, which is one of the reasons Canada is considered to be an economically stable country with a good banking system.

This is the same table showing the public debt as a percentage of public debt.

1 Australia $48,536 --15%
2 Ireland $438,000 --31%
3 Spain $61,147 --38%
4 Netherlands $136,217 --43%
5 Switzerland $176,212 --44%
6 United Kingdom $170,994 --47%
7 United States $39,875 --61
8 Germany $54,525 --61%
9 Canada $22,653 --62%
10 France $83,831 --67%
11 Belgium $126,076 --81%
12 Italy $18,236 --103%
13 Japan $11,741 --170%

"NMG ....There is only one taxpayer!! It does not matter where the $51.3 million comes from (City, Province or Feds), the taxpayer (you and I) are the ones paying 100% of the cost for this untimely monumment"

Actually the entire taxpaying population of BC and Canada (including us in PG) would be helping to pay for our PAC IF we received Provincial and Federal grants and IF the project went ahead. The only real significant amount attached to us would be the portion that the city would have to come up with.

Yes we all pay taxes and yeah "there is only one taxpayer", but let's also be realistic. The direct amount of taxes from PG residents that would be represented in Provincial and Federal grants for a would be PAC would be written off as immaterial if you looked at the overall makeup for that pot of dough. The BC portion would probably be funded primarily from folks in the Lower Mainland and the Federal portion likely from folks working in the tar sands and in Ontario.

Like I've said many times, I'll take ANY inflow of Provincial and Federal dollars coming into PG because we're bound to come out ahead when you consider the proportional relationship between the amounts we receive as compared to what we contribute.

"Now our city planners are running wild on a spending spree planning on borrowing over 120,000,000.00 dollars for the Arts Centre, 11klm paved trail, police station and downtown beautification plans"

Are they? Really? Which of these projects have been finalized? Which ones have been approved? Where are the detailed costing plans for the projects? Which project has broken ground? Heck, where are the minutes from the council meetings confirming that these loans have been secured? Surely you have a source? Maybe?

Prince George food bank sees sharp hike in number of clients

Northern B.C. has been hit hard by deepening economic crisis

Doug Ward, Vancouver Sun
Published: Saturday, May 30, 2009

Two days ago, the Salvation Army Food Bank in Prince George was contacted by a family desperate for help after the suicide of its main wage-earner.

The man had been in despair, unable to cope with being laid off recently at a local sawmill, said Salvation Army Capt. Bruce Kirk.

The man's family is now joining the ranks of house-rich, but cash-poor, blue-collar families in the Prince George region who are heading to the Salvation Army Food Bank for the first time.

"The situation is getting quite dire with the collapse of the wood industry up here," Kirk said.

The Salvation Army food bank, the largest in Prince George, has experienced a 30-per-cent increase in the number of clients over last year, he added.

"These are quite perilous times for us," said Kirk. "I can say that in my 20 years with the Salvation Army, I've never seen us under fire the way we are now."

And the economic crisis in Prince George and northern B.C. appears to be deepening every month.

Forest giant Canfor announced Friday the closure of three sawmills in the B.C. Interior, including the Rustad Bros. sawmill in Prince George, which employed 205 workers. Canfor had already shut down two mills in Mackenzie and one in Chetwynd.

The ACS call centre in Prince George closed earlier this month, putting 230 people out of work.

"We've had many first-time recipients walking through the doors of our food bank," said Kirk, executive-director of the Salvation Army Food Bank.

http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=4f19df5c-3f34-48a9-96f5-e4dd24ba19e2&k=95232

NMG. We can apply your hypothesis to any and all Cities in Canada, with larger and smaller populations than Prince George, and guess what?? Your argument becomes invalid.

The fact of the matter is any and all monies that come from the Feds, Province, City, Region etc; etc; is taxpayers money, and should be treated accordingly. To suggest somehow that we are getting **free dollars** from other areas of the Country is bogus. On a per capita basis we pay our share.

I suggest that the new PAC be built on the extended Runway at the Prince George Airport. This runway is not being used, even though it cost us $33Million. We could take out 2500 Seats from the CN Centre that are not being used and put them into the PAC. We could take some of the Art from the Art Centre to put on the walls of the PAC because very few if any people go to the Art Centre to see it.

We could use all the equipment, and material from the Playhouse Theatre for the new PAC because Council in its wisdom plans to tear down the Playhouse, even though they have spent millions on renovations over the years.

We could also move the RCMP into the spaces vacated by the call centres, the space vacated by the Hollywood Casino next to the Ramada, the Odeon theatre, etc. etc.

Or perhaps we should not tear down the old Duchess Park Secondary and put the RCMP offices in there.

Palopu........ please think NMG's point through a bit more logically.

With a population of 33.5 million for Canada and 75,000 for Prince George, if Canada was to put $18 million towards a PAC in PG and PG taxpayers paid as much as the average of taxpayers in Canada, about $40,300 of the $18 million would come from PG taxpayers.

If that PAC in Prince George does not get built here and nowhere else either, then everyone could save the money or the money could be applied to say the registration of guns. In that case, I would agree that we should not be asking the Feds for the money. But both you and I, Palopu know that is whistling in the wind. We have little control over that. The fact is that the feds will continue to put money towards projects such as PACs.

So, if that PAC were to be built in St. Catharines, for instance, we would still be putting $403,00 of our tax money towards that centre and receive no benefit from that money.

What we need to do is to get as much access to those funds that the feds dish out for these types of projects as we possibly can. Some people are better at that than others. I do not know how well we are faring. Someone at City Hall might have a better idea of whether we are ahead of the game.

In the meantime, send best wishes to St. Catharines since they just received the $18 million, with the proportional contribution of about 0.22% from PG taxpayers. The Citizens of St. Catharines thank all Canadians for our contributions towards their future improved quality of life.

http://www.ontariomcp.ca/news/canada-and-ontario-support-new-st.-catharines-performing-arts-centre