And they still believe..........
they will come..
Getting to be an old song....
not sure who the special interest group was that got the longer runway and now the refueling depot in place...
but I think they know ...
"THEY AREN"T GOING TO COME"
and knew that from the onset....

You got that right BCRacer, this has always been about Politics, Local, Provincial, and Federal, and the need for the Politicians to be seen to be doing something.

I wouldnt hold my breath for any changes at the Airport.

It will take a little longer than the 2 or 3 minutes that you might be able to hold your breath before passing out.

Although I do not have much of an opinion on the airport runway expansion except that there is no point in complaining about something that cannot be changed. Wouldn't it be great if it becomes a success?
Assume that the governments, local and federal, came to any of the posters on this site with say 50 mllion dollars ,what would you do to increase economic diversification? Any Ideas? I sure don't have a clue what to do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this refueling station supposed to be finished and ready for business this past May?

There's always a reason why we need to wait a little longer. It'll be the same song and dance a year from now.

Take some of the negative responses with a grain of salt. Many of them come from the same people who think that CN Centre, the Civic Centre, the Art Gallery, UNBC and every other change made to the city since they grew up in some foregone era, have been bad for PG . . .

maybe if we offer ....free fuel....n cold drinks....they will drop outta the skys to visit us.

To all of you negative posters.... Why don't you hitch up your team or crank up your old MODEL T and move to Spuzzum. Nothing ever happens there and you can sit and watch the traffic go by. Just for excitement you can watch the river roll along.

The business model of the airport is flawed. We built a $32 million dollar run way, and will charging nothing for cargo planes to land on it. So the actual airport will make nothing on the landing of any cargo planes, if anything will cost them in repairs, maintenance and staffing. The companies that service the planes will be making all the money, if it ever happens. So you and I get to pay for this venture with increased landing fees and the rather high Airport Improvement Fee.

How much better would Prince George be if we turned the keys to the city over to the arm chair critics?!? I would think this would be the perfect City...Utopia in fact. In the meantime we just have to suffer through the fools and idiots who actually get off their asses and try to accomplish constructive and positive changes.

We could all set up some lawn chairs on our fancy new multimillion dollar runway and watch the planes fly over.

I'm all for ideas that are based on a sound business model, but let's be realistic... this was a very expensive gamble using taxpayer dollars based on some pretty wild assumptions. So this is what 'progess' is all about?

How much better would Prince George be if we turned the keys to the city over to the arm chair critics?!? I would think this would be the perfect City...Utopia in fact. In the meantime we just have to suffer through the fools and idiots who actually get off their asses and try to accomplish constructive and positive changes.

Interesting "fact????????????" presented by lunarguy who said:
_________________________________

" We built a $32 million dollar run way, and will charging nothing for cargo planes to land on it."

_________________________________

It appears??????????????? that lunarguy thinks he/she knows all about how airports operate.

Lunarguy is somewhat right. The Airport Authority isnt going to charge for the landing fees. These fees will be hidden in the cost of the fuel, and then paid to the Airport by the Oil Companies. This is another example of the ***Creative Accounting** that takes place in this City.

There is a big difference between what is referred to as **Arm Chair Critics** and those who blindly support all these projects but havent the intestinal fortitude to acutally do some research and check them out to see if they are actually viable, or just a drag on taxpayers.

Quote by Joe Klein.

**Faith unaccompanied by rigorous skepticism, is a recipe for myopia, and foolishness**

I suspect that their are a lot of faithful fools in this town when it comes to these projects.

I was watching the news last night and they are saying that China is bouncing back with an expected 8% growth.

If that report is at all true, I would think that the PG airport will be in a good position to be open for business when more cargo starts moving again.

I think all negative people will look pretty foolish once a single contract gets signed. I think there are people out there thinking that for this infastructure to make sense 20-30 companies need to make use of the service.

Not true, if 1 company uses it on a fairly regular basis it will be a success. As fellow PG citizens, can't you see that this is an additional sector that we didn't have before. We aren't building any new mills and call centres are closing their doors. This will be something that can be busy when other sectors going through a slump.

This is a good thing for diversifying the economy..........The more projects that we have like this the better. Promoting PG for growth is the way to go.

mwk. These Companies are already using Anchorage Alaska. To start to use Prince George on a fairly regular basis, would mean a change in the way they do business.

In order to change there has to be some incentive. The savings in Jet Fuel, and Landing and Take off fees are miniscule in comparison to Anchorage, and in fact there may be no savings at all when you fly West because you are flying into headwinds.

You seem to think that there are Cargo Airlines all over the World just waiting for a place to land. This of course in not true. These Companies have been
in business for years and years, developing their markets etc; They have never to my knowlege approached Prince George with a
view to establishing a business here.

What has actually happened is we built the extension and now we are approaching the Airline Companies to try and get them to do some business here. So far no one has shown any interest.

We have been trading with China on a regular basis for over 30 years. This idea that this is a new market is not true. Go out to WalMart and any other store in Prince George and you will see that most of the products are made in China. This product arrives in North America and has been distributed all over the Country without any help from Prince George, and because it works on the basis of **economies of scale** it is highly unlikely that Prince George will ever be involved.

mwk. Check out the following article on China.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sheldon-filger/will-chinas-economic-cris_b_230068.html

I usually don't take part in the personal assaults that happen on here often but I do actually know a fair amount of what goes in pg. I attend the various AGM's, monthly meetings, read the reports, can comprehend them and offer up what I do consider to be a fact and nothing less. Course if I am wrong, I gladly accept a correction, but no need to get into personal assaults people.

Oh well, guess we will all have to wait and see who's right.

Here's a question for Palupo, Charles and all the others that think the Airport upgrades don't make sense, what is the answer? Surely you have all the answers and this should be an easy one.

I suppose we should just have a small airport with just a couple of flights to Vancouver and that's it. Well, I think we have to be willing to try some things in order to get somewhere. I think the majority of people in PG want a better city and will do more than just comlain to make it happen.

Well said, mwk! Let's hear some proposals!

What would the naysayers have done to increase PG's business and job prospects for the future?

I'd like to see the PG Airshow come back. Maybe now with the changes at the airport we could get the airshow back. Just a thought :-)

nonocoooooooooooondndn

nonocoooooooooooondndn

nonocoooooooooooondndn

Dont know what happened above.

Some points to ponder.

The BC Stats population forcasts for Prince George show an increase of approx 4000 people by the year 2025. This is approx 260 people per year.

The Airport Authority Annual Report is projecting a revenue increase of between 1.9 and 2 percent per year, over the next 5 years.

Those numbers put out by the Airport Authority and the Government show quite clearly that they do not expect any big increases in business in this area in the foreseeable future. In fact the Airport is expecting a decrease in passenger traffic in the next couple of years.

There has been no indication that private business will be doing anything on a large scale in this area in the immediate future. Oil in the Nechako Basin is just a bunch of rubbish. A steel mill in Pr George is also rubbish. Lumber Companies have been closing mills all over BC. Mackenzie is for all intents and purposes dead. Prince George and area, has lost at least 7 lumber mills in the past 15 years, approx 1700 good paying jobs.

Its against this backdrop that we have to try and create some jobs, and keep people from leaving. How do we do this.

(1) Because of our location we need to do everything in our power to attract and keep people here. Its not good enough for City Hall to say our taxes are equal to Citys of similiar size in BC. We do not have the tourist, or weather advantages that these other Citys have, and therefore we must reduce taxes, so that we can boast we have the lowest taxes in BC if not in all of Canada. We can do this if we quit spending all our tax dollars on BS projects, like $40 Million PAC or Police Stations, or Co-Generation plants to heat water to heat buildings. We need to improve our infrastructure, and pave our roads so that we can boast that we have the best roads in BC.

(2) Northern Health has to take its responsibility to provide Class A health care more seriously. The time has come to stop paying out all this money in Salaries and Benefits, and allow some money to be spent on actually providing a service. Once we eliminate wait time for operations, and allow more time for Surgeons, etc; we will be able to boast that we have the best hospital services in the Province.

(3) Its time that the School District does the same thing. We can no longer be paying out horrendous money for Education, when most of that money goes to salaries and benefits, and very little dribbles down to actually providing a Class A education for students.

(4)Every town in North Central BC has a declining population, and they all think that tourism will pull them out of the spiral. There are not enough tourists to go around. Some towns will continue to shrink. We need a comprehensive strategy for attracting tourists to this area. We should quit Bull Shitting ourselves that we have a lot to offer. Our local lakes are contaminated with weeds. If you go swimming you get the itch. If you go outside the City to some sites the bathrooms have been removed and people are excreting on the ground and chopping down trees for fire wood. These campsites have to be restored to a prestine condition, and then maybe tourists would stay for a day or two.

(5) We need to take advantage of our rivers. Someone should be providing Class A river tours up the Nechako to the Isle Pierre Rapids, or up the Fraser to Huble Landing (Could spend the day exploring Huble) or down the Fraser to South Fort Canyon.

(6) We need the Government to get out of our face. You need to be a Philadelphia Lawyer to figure out where you can fish, when you can fish, what you can fish, what you can fish with, whether or not you can use bait. Whether or not you can use a barbed hook, etc; etc; etc; People just throw up their hands and say **To hell with it, its not worth the bother** Lets make things less complicated.

(7) We should be spending huge dollars on reforestation. Both Industry dollars, and Government dollars. We dont want to hear a bunch of bullshit. We want thousands of jobs replanting the forests.

(8) All the people in this town who bitch about jobs etc, cant get out to Walmart or some other store fast enough and buy cheap products from China. Local producers cant make a red cent in this town because most Citizens are to cheap to buy their products, even though they are locally grown, and fresher. We have a number of places where we can buy vegetables, beef, chicken, eggs, etc; however because we are a bunch of cheap lazy asses we buy it all at the super market and support the Big Boys. People in this town bitch about the price of local produce, and then go to the liquor store and pay $25.00 for a case of crappy beer.

If we wont support local entreprenaurs then we dont deserve to survive.

(9) People from the outlying areas come to Prince George to shop, and spend millions in this City. How many of us reciprocate and go to thier towns to spend some money. Mcbride, Vanderhoof, Quesnel, and other areas need our business as much as we need theirs. Instead of spending all our money in Mexico or some other tourist trap, maybe we should spread it around our own area.

(10) We have to solve the bad air problem. Everyone knows that the problems lies with Industry, and therefore Industry must fix it. Governments must if necessary apply pressure to see that this is done. When people vist Prince George and smell the air they are not in a big hurry to get back.

(11) The biggest growing demographic in Prince George is Seniors. We should be ensuring that there are lots of cheap, good, facilities for them, to encourage them to stay in Prince George. If we dont then they will go to Kamloops, Penticton, Kelowna, etc;

Being buried in the middle of the Province, in a snow belt, with cold six month winters, we have to be better than other Citys in order to survive. This means that we have to take doing something serious. If we just pay lip service to the problems, then we will come up with the same solutions.

Truth is required, BS has to be relagated to the back seat. The Airport Runway Extension was no more than a $36 Million dollar investment in a chunk of concrete.

The huge cost of the Cameron St., Bridge (probably in the area of $15 million) when a $750,000.00 repair job would suffice, was a total waste of money.

I could go on, but you get my point.

Have a nice day.

That is a great post Palopu.

Observer

"The BC Stats population forcasts for Prince George show an increase of approx 4000 people by the year 2025. This is approx 260 people per year."

Where on earth does BC Stats get their data from? Stats Canada is reporting actual facts that show an opposite trend.

Population trend of PG has dropped by 3.1% every five years since 1996.

1996 - 87,731
2001 - 85,035
2006 - 83.225

Good post Palopu, you make some very good points.

I do agree with you 100% that we need to find a way to attract people here and keep them here. I guess where I differ a little bit is that I think it's the very facilities that you seem to be against, that I think play a significant role in helping us achieve that goal.

The biggest thing I think we need to focus on is quality of life. That means a clean environment, things to do and having an affordable place to live.

Regarding our property taxes, the amount per 1,000 in value may be higher than some other places, but what about the property values themselves? Would someone in PG living in a $350K house really love to move into a $350K house in Kelowna, Nanaimo, etc., just to save a couple hundred bucks a year on property taxes? I'd bet that most WOULD NOT when they actually saw what they'd be living in as compared to what they were accustomed to in PG. It gets back to balance. Pay a little more in property taxes and live in a much nicer home, or save a bit in property taxes and pay much more on your mortgage for a lesser home.

This is a complex question and there's no doubt that opinions differ on how to address it. At some point we need to get a plan in place and stick to it, because I get the sense that the City is just wandering around in a daze hoping that they stumble onto something that will work.

NMG. Prince George with its Heavy and Light Industry, and Property taxes takes in huge amnounts of money. The problem is they continually find projects to spend this money on. Look what they plan for the next few years.

(1) $50 Million dollar Police Station
(2) $50 Million dollar PAC
(3) $48 Million for road from Highway 16 to 97 which will only service the people who have bought up the ;property in that area. It does nothing for the taxpayer, and in fact, we have been using the Old Cariboo Highwy as a cut off for years. This road could be upgraded and would be sufficient for anyones needs except, those who want to develop the property West of the Airport. We shouldnt spend a red cent on this project until the Airport can show us conclusively that there will be some business to support it. As it now stands I suspect the main use of the property will be the development of an Industrial Area, that will draw business away from the BC Rail Industrial Park, Danson Industrial Park, and Carter Light Industrial Park. Why should taxpayers be on the hook for $48 Million to develop a road for a Industrial Park???

(4) Co-Generation plant to produce heat to produce steam (water) to heat Government buildings downtown. Cost???? $10-15 Million. Why??? What the hell is wrong with Natural Gas or Electricity???? We will never get back our money through cost savings by going to this system. Aside from the Co=Generation plant itself, the piping has to be put in place etc;. At the end of the day you will have buildings that have, Gas, Electricity, and WaterHeat. Even the Queen of England doesnt have these options.

(5) Debt servicing now stands at about $12 Million a year for Prince George, in addition the shortfall from the various recreation facilities, ie; skating rinks, swimming pools, CN Centre, Library, Playhouse Theatre, etc; comes in around $12 Million per year. This is a horrendous cost, and it will keep rising if we do nothing, and continue to spend like drunken sailors.

As I said before comparing taxes, or any other service to other Cities like Kamloops, Kelowna, etc; is a waste of time. The fact of the matter is, this is Prince George, and we can make our own decisions in regard to taxes etc; and there is absolutely no need to make comparisons. We have to reduce taxes, and cut spending. Its just that simple.

If you cut off the money to City Hall the spending stops. Its only because we allow them to tax us to the hilt, that they can piss away $100 Million per year.

I note that some industries are now taking the various Citys in the surrounding areas to court to get their taxes reduced. Good for them, that is the only thing that Municipalities understand. Once they are faced with a court case, they start to listen. Maybe a group of local Citizens should get to-gether and sue the City for wasting tax dollars.

Have a nice day.