Good idea Ben; but not enough shrinks out there for all the nutjobs that buy this crap!!!

Of course this will save us money! The local businesses will refund the public any profits they make.

This is the logic the "specialist" on CBC this weekend tried to sell.

My logic says will have far less to spend because essentials will cost more.

The HST will NOT save us money. It will put a 7% tax on a whole range of goods and services that are not presently taxable at the Provincial level.

What's worse. is that the Provincial government is surrendering its sovereignty to the Feds in an important area of taxation without even asking the people of BC if they approve of this, what really amounts to a Constitutional change. Something that, I believe, by law has to be approved in a referendum.

The last time this was done, and the Provinces surrendered their sovereignty in an area of taxation specifically reserved for them, was the agreed implementation by the Provinces of a Federal "Income Tax" as a 'temporary' measure during World War One.

'Temporary' indeed! Only Quebec has ever tried to re-assert what it once gave up.

The rest of the Provinces have become lackeys dependent on the Federal government for handouts of tax money collected within their respective jurisdictions.

And in BC's case, I believe far more has been sent eastwards than has ever been returned. WAC Bennett's words that the Federal government treated BC "...as a goblet to be drained', STILL HOLD GREAT TRUTH.

We need to STOP THIS TAX NOW, before it becomes law. What we are giving up if it is ever implemented is a price too high to pay.

CIVIL DISOBBEDIANCE, it is the only way! I'm in, are you?

sorry,"CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE"

I hope we don't let them get away with this. We stood by and let them rip us off with the carbon tax.

Still beating the same drum I see, taxi. Good for you. And as I said, good luck with it.

Has anyone done any research on what has happened in the other provinces that have implemented the HST?

Posted by: taxinapothole on August 10 2009 8:58 AMCIVIL DISOBBEDIANCE, it is the only way! I'm in, are you?

What have you got in mind? Go to Victoria and make potholes?

If it will work, I am in!!

The Liberals are counting on the people to forget this tax by the next election. People didnt forget when the Conservatives under Mulrooney brought in the GST, and in the next election the Conservatives had the biggest loss in the History of Canada. It took them 20 years to recover from the **kick in the ass** they got from voters.

The Liberals if they implement this tax grab are entitled to, and should get the same **kick in the ass**.

This HST is nothing more than a tax grab, and will cost the average BC Taxpayer approx $1500.00 per year. Can you afford to give the Government an additional $1500.00 per year, so that they can piss it away on cushy jobs for their freinds etc;??. Or spend it on stupid projects, or on the Olympics that you cant afford to attend, because you are taxed to the hilt.

Its time to do something. The first thing to do is sign the various petitions going around. This will give the Government some indication of how upset people are about this tax. The NDP petition that is being promoted by Carol James has passed the 20,000 mark, you can sign this petition by going to www.bc.ndp.ca/hstpetition.

There are also rallies being planned by former Socred Premier Bill Vandersalm, and other petitions being put up around the Province.

Anyone who thinks that signing a petition will have little or no effect is just kidding themselves. Doing nothing will have no effect.; If there is enough pressure brought to bear on this Government they will back away from this tax. So come on lets start building some pressure.

seriously, we do,what we did in the 80's. Poland was using Civil Disobedience, to take a whole country out of communist rule. They succeeded, with the determination of one man, that spread to a few people that spread to a few thousand more, that spread to the whole country saying, WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!

Compared to Poland, B.C.'s Solidarity movement in the 80's, was minuscule in comparison. But it worked if anyone remembers?? It brought British Columbia to it's knees. The Province was about to be shut down one Monday morning, when Jack Munro, President of the IWA, met with the then Premier Bill Bennett on Sunday night prior. A GENERAL STRIKE was alleviated because the Social Credit realized, they had overstepped their boundaries, and if they didn't back off, there were going to be serious consequences! The problem was solved that night.

The problem today, is out of control! If we don't stand up in LARGE NUMBERS against these thieving politicians, then we/you stand for nothing!! Gordo should be in JAIL for what he has stolen from us, but no, YOU put him back in. I say YOU, because I didn't vote for the drunken thief!

If you take a small stick, and try and break, it is very easy.

If you take two sticks together and try and break them, it becomes more difficult.

If you take a whole bunch of sticks together, and try and break them, you will not succeed.

If we all band together, this thug will go down, and he will go down hard.

ARE YOU IN????

"Has anyone done any research on what has happened in the other provinces that have implemented the HST?"

Well, preliminary research shows that they did not go into a frenzy of civil disobedience.

Canadians in general are not good candidates for mounting campaigns of civil disobedience. A vast number of them don't even go out and vote in elections, federal, provincial, municipal or otherwise.

They don't worry about having their drinking water mass-medicated with fluoride, they don't protest against NAFTA, the coming of the NAU, the unpopular war in Afghanistan, the unpopular government in Ottawa (yes, the Conservatives which were obliterated because of the GST!) does as it pleases...

"If we all band together, this thug will go down, and he will go down hard."

Can't even get enough people together to sign a petition to finally address the problem of our bad roads - and bad they are in many places...good luck!

Right on the money, Diplomat.

You are so right "diplomat" lol I love your post. But I think we should try to turn these none believing morons around. This is our money, not the politicians. We need to impress that, upon the people that don't understand, and the politicians that do!! Enough is enough. WE CAN DO THIS, if we stand together!! The non believers are followers, and they will eventually follow us, and stand up with us as one!

We can no longer say, " we can not make a difference" Nelson Mandela made a difference, HELLO!! These corrupt political thieves, are payed by us, the working stiff!! We need to put an end to their arrogance, NOW!!

ARE YOU IN??????

I agree that it is very hard to get Canadians to do anything, they seem to be the **World Champions of Bull Shit** or as the old saying goes.

**He talks alot but he's not so hot, he's heap big smoke but no fire**

Having said that, we still need to try and get people to be aware of whats happening with this tax and to get them to sign the petitions, and attend a rally if one should be organized. To do less, is to join those who do nothing.

What gets me the maddest is the fact that these politicians beleive we are STUPID, and that we prove them right time after time.

Are you really so stupid that you will let this tax grab take effect without so much as a murmur. If you are then you deserve what you get.


Diplomat. Good luck is not enough. Why dont you get 10 or 20 people to sign a petition and send it in. Then YOU would be doing something. Let me know how you make out. Dont stop at 20 get as many as you can. Dont be afraid to sign one yourself.

A politician's job, as Franklin Delano Roosevelt once observed is, "To yield to pressure." It's OUR job to apply it.

WE collectively applied enough pressure to stop the sale of the Coquihalla Highway to a private operator who'd have been collecting tolls off us for the next sixty years.

We should've applied a little more pressure and stopped Campbell and Co. from increasing the tolls on a road that's long been paid for from $ 10 to $ 13.

WE CAN stop this tax if we stand together. And insist that it not go ahead, and that nothing else be imposed on us in its place.

There is NO NEED FOR ANY FURTHER TAXATION. Proper Provincial Accounts would reveal that we are already subjected to way more taxation than is justified by the level of services we receive from government.

Well said by all!
I'm in!
Getting sore fingers from sending emails to politicians who are not listening...or in most cases,not answering!
I guess that tells us a lot!

Count me in, but I have to say that we do not have much of an alternative to the B.C. Liberals right now. It would be quite a stretch to believe that the endeep-pee or the greenies would be any better for us, overall. It might be best if we had a civil uprising against the way this province is governed, if enough of us got together on the hst and other hot issues, we might be able to force the Liberals into governing FOR the people.
metalman.

All of you are right in that "we", the small person in the scheme of politics will pay. The only thing that I have read or heard on the news is that the "HST" is good for big business (i.e., CANFOR etc.). It's time that the "we" quit bailing out the big companies with our hard earned tax money. Prices are going up everywhere and "we" do not get an increase in wages or pensions. All governments lie to the people but this one is arrogant as well as being liars. Not one MLA will answer a simple direct question such as; ("Was the HST being planned or on the books before the election?")with a simple yes or no. Let you MLA know your feelings!

Sent a letter to Premier Campbell, Colin Hansen, and Pat Bell, about the HST.

Computer generated response from Campbell and Hansen, no response from Bell. Im sure everyone else is being given the silent treatment.

These people know full well that they are taking us to the cleaners for $4 Billion dollars. Im sure that the word is out to totally ignore any complaints, and that over a short period of time the complaints will die down, and it will be business as usual. They are counting on us to go back to sleep, that is why it is so important to sign a petition, and get all your freinds and relatives to sign so that they get the message loud and clear.

You can rest assured that this matter will be brought up when the legislature convenes next month, and if the NDP have 100,000 signatures or more, they can shake them in the face of Campbell and his cohorts and tell them that they have lost the confidence of BC Voters, and that they should cancel the HST idea.

There are other petitions to sign, however we know for sure that the Carole James petition will get the most attention in the legislature, plus it is on line and easy to access. They presently have in excess of 21000 signatures, and counting.

This is in no way showing support for the NDP, or its policies, however it is a good way to get the attention of the Liberals.

I'll start a political party... I started one before (BCDFP), but didn't have the resources to follow it up. BC needs a free enterprise party to bring us back to our roots as a free enterprise economy. By next election I think I could put together a party that could beat the liberals... if I only had the time and resources. This winter I think I'll work on that.

This HST tax in addition to a new tax on a host of things is also a transfer of taxation responsibility from the corporations to individuals. It comes at a time when the service industry is what is keeping our economy afloat and it is directed at the service industry. This tax kills BC sovereignty and insulates bad politics from fiscal accountability, because it will encourage spending by these politicians to use up their new 'budget' without taking responsibility themselves for the taxation. It limits BC sovereignty from the ability to decide where we think taxes should apply and where they should not, as well as the levels of taxation that we think should be collected. This HST act is treason to the people of BC especially since it was done with no mandate from the voter behind closed doors after an election where the ruling party ran against this very concept. It is treason no question about it.

I signed the facebook petition last week and it was up over 35,000 signatures. Will sign the ndp petition tonight and write to the MLA's as Palopu suggests we all do.

ndp server is down right now... must be a lot of traffic?

I sent two emails to the Mayor's Office in Prince George some few days ago. I got the email address from the citry's website.

No answer, no reply acknowledging that they were even received and that a real live human being is looking at them.

They concern an urgent matter; urgent and very important to me, anyways.

The Mayor and all his staff must be on an extended vacation all at the same time, I presume.

If they are not...well, then I come to a very different conclusion.

Once elected...

Doesnt the Gov of Canada have a 1.16 billion dollar carrot dangling in front of Gordo?? Thats alot of Olympic $ he could spend!!!!

Here are some interesting facts that will come with "HST": MINIMUM INCREASE YEARLY:
Cable T.V. - A minimum of 50.40
Golg fees - minimum of 210.00
gym membership - min. 58.80
hYDRO - MIN. 71.40
haircuts - min. 31.50
heating fuel - min. 64.00
internet - min. 70.00
income tax prep. - min. 21.00
sports games - min. u/k
movies - min. 40.60
newspaper subscription - min. 16.80
curling fees - min. 84.00
telephone - min. 40.32
vacation travel (air) once a yr. - 83.00

ARE YOU READY: THIS IS JUST A START BUT WELL OVER $2,000.00 PER YEAR. I'M TALKING RETIRED PEOPLE. IT WILL COST MORE FOR A WORKING FAMILY.
THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT WHERE IS ALL OF THIS MONEY GOING? THE OLYMPIC BILLS AT THE END OF 2010 AND BIG BUSINESS BECAUSE WE KNOW WE ARE BEING LIED TO ABOUT THE BOOK-KEEPING OF THE OLYMPICS AND WE WILL HAVE A HUGE DEBT. IT IS ALSO VERY INTERESTING THAT ALL OF THE MLAS ARE BEING VERY CLOSED MOUTH ABOUT THIS FOR THOSE THAT ARE LIBERALS. THE WORST IS; I VOTED FOR THEM.

Kider, the liberals made clear that they favored a tax revenue shift from corporations to wage earning citizens prior to the last election... they just didn't say how they would do this, but that was clearly their 'business' philosophy... everyone knew it.

The idea from liberals in BC has always been the trickle down effect that if big business is making money... some of that new wealth will trickle down to the people. This is classic trickle down set into policy with a little bit of centralization of power as a reward for the corporations future trickle down benefits to society once they are no longer paying any taxes for their privilege of operating in this province using our resources. That is what was on the ballot last election and everyone who voted for them knew exactly that.

I can see the day coming soon under a BC liberal government where a working mans tax load will be greater then his actual gross earnings.

The ndp on the other hand... those people too knew exactly what they were voting for as well... they were voting for government employee benefits, subsidy, social programs, and welfare (both corporate and domestic) revenues transfered from someone else to their accounts.

One set of voters votes out of personal greed, and the other out of a false utopia of fantasy land promises that expire on the election night. The realist middle majority don't even bother with the charade anymore, or simply throw their votes away to petty single issue concerns knowing full well this thing we call democracy is only a front to surrender the legitimacy of our representation to backroom special interest deal makers at the party level.

Check out C.D. Howe Institute Commentary from July 2007. Michael Smart presented a study called "Lessons in Harmony: What Experience in the Atlantic provinces shows about the benefits of a Harmonized Sales Tax"

The four provinces included Newfoundland, Labrador, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. I believe the HST was implemented in 1997.

I quote; "This shift in burdens from business to consumers is usually regarded as a major obstacle to such a reform. But, all taxes are ultimately paid by some people, somewhere and never by businesses. That is, we must distinguish between the "statutory burdens" of a tax - who the tax law says must pay the tax - and the true "economic burdens" of a tax. True economic tax burdens depend on how taxes levied on businesses are shifted forward to consumers through higher prices, or shifted backward to factors of production, like labour, capital, and land through lower wages and rental prices. Estimating true economic burdens is difficult, but it is the key to understanding the ultimate impact of a tax on consumbers and on the distribution of real income in the economy." End quote

The issue I have is the sneaky way this government has been meeting behind closed doors with the Feds and without consulting the electorate, or business for input or consultation. An agreement referred to as a "Comprehensive Integrated Tax Co-ordination Agreement with Canada" should have included the stakeholders. In my opinion.

Time to put the squeeze on these folks. They have their own agenda and we have not been included. That kinda sucks in my view.

Eagleone
Get on that ASAP cuz I need a reason to go to the polls next time-not just to keep the NDP out! There is literally nothing out there worth voting for and no sign of anything down the road either. It really sucks having a two party province (a lose lose proposition all around)!

"We should've applied a little more pressure and stopped Campbell and Co. from increasing the tolls on a road that's long been paid for from $ 10 to $ 13."

Hey, that is the reason why we have to cut back on spending now. There is no free money coming in from transportation.

BTW, did anyone notice how much goods that are transported via tha corridor have dropped in price? I figure I am saving at least 10 cents every year as a result of the removal of the toll booths.

"("Was the HST being planned or on the books before the election?")"

Of course it was. I gather Ontario led the way. It is a negotiated deal with the feds and 3 provinces. Such a deal does not happen overnight.

Here is an Ontario view on their "fiberals" . We do not have to fight this alone. We have the largest province we can join forces with. We need to oppose the divide and conquer tactic and use the join and conquer tactic.

http://discuss.50plus.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=22193

Here is the Ontario announcement in March.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_33227.aspx

Here to stay. Manitoba may be in as well? And PEI? If Alberta were to join, would anything change since they have no PST?

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/grab+spell+beginning+Liberal+government/1869294/story.html

I'm in too. The Liberal party would do themselves a fovour if they booted Campbell out and put another leader in.

I am waiting for the budget. I expect a cheque in the mail to follow Ontario's example will be announced to compensate for the switch over.

The question is, will the citizens of the province buy it then?

If there is no money to compensate, and businesses do not lower prices and keep the money they will be refunded, then the government will be in even worse trouble.

I am not sure whether the government has even worked out the details of this yet.

THE OTHER THING ..... why are we letting the Federal Conservatives off the hook here for enticing the provinces to do this? What are the Fedral Liberals and NDP doing about that? Are they all in bed together on this?

The Conservatives blame the Federal Liberals for starting this HST thing before they got in.

As if they had no power now to stop it!

They did not have any qualms about reneging on the Kelowna Accord which had been signed by the Liberals and the First Nations!

No lack of power and determination then!

Okay, people are buzzing. Keep it up. Spread the word. Kidar did a little research, do some calculations on your families budget. Now get mad and stay mad.
Share your consternation with your friends and neighbours. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Th people have to hold this government accountable.

It is now or never. Let's get moving.

nothing like a tax increase to make people poop their pants in anger! Anyone know of any big tea shipments hanging out in PG?