Heres an opportunity to spend some of our money on a worth while project. Thats what paying taxes is all about.

This request is nothing compared to the $8.5 million that will be spent on River Road that will serve no purpose what so ever. Using he CN Intermodal yard on River Road to get Federal Funds under the Port Expansion Program, which means we have to borrow $4 Million in matching funds is bordering on criminal.

There will never be any meaningful containerization at the CN Intermodal yard,and even if there were, it would be the same business that presently goes to Vancouver for containerization, and would create very few jobs.

These dudes are still trying to convince you that somehow there is a difference between sending containers to Pr Rupert than to Vancouver BC. In actual fact it is almost the same thing. The difference is the service to Vancouver is much better than to Prince Rupert.

Lets give Mcbride some help for a worthy cause, and stop polluting the River and our drinking water. We shoud also be looking at doing something for Vanderhoof, because as far as I know they dump their sewer into the Nechako.

Let move into the 21st Century and start spending money on worthwhile causes, rather than political expediant projects.

While I generally agree with your viewpoints Palopu, let me mention that the whole reason for the excitement over creating more container traffic to and from Prince Rupert is that Rupert is a couple days closer to the Asian markets, and Rupert is less congested ergo- freight can get into the Eastern part of North America quicker than if it has to pass through any of the other major ports on the Pacific coast. Of course that may not be as meaningful today as it was a year and a half ago, but as the economies around the world come back to life, look for more rail container traffic out of Prince Rupert.
metalman.

Metalman. I have no ;problem with the containers that come from Asia through the Port of Prince Rupert and then go by rail to Memphis, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal. The service route from Pr Rupert to these points is faster that other West Coast Ports at this time. (Some US :Ports are having the UP Railway, and BN Railwy improve their service, so they can compete with Rupert, and reclaim this business.)

I also agree that sailing time from Asia to Prince Rupert is approx one day shorter than to Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, etc; So shipping Containers to Prince Rupert for furtherance to the Eastern US and Canada is a good business venture, and that is why Maher Terminals of New Jersey, and CN Rail along with the Federal Government and the Port of Prince Rupert set it up.

There are some things however that most people are not aware of:::

Example:: The Container ships that arrive in Prince Rupert are loaded with approx 12000 TEU's (20 ft equivelant Units) or 6000 FEU's (40ft equivelant Units) Most containers are 40ft. These ships only unload approx 900 40ft Containers in Prince Rupert, mainly from Cosco (China Overseas Shipping Co.) and Hanjin, ships. This means that the balance of the Containers ie; approx 5000 40ft Containers move on to the Port of Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Oakland Calif. Etc;

What this means is twofold.

(1) When the ship leaves Prince Rupert for other destinations it has only 900 spaces available for loading. The inbound containers net weight would be approx 20,000 lbs because it is loaded with light product for Walmarts, etc; The outbound containers, loaded in Memphis with Cotton, Products, Wisc. with Paper Products, and a little but not much lumber products from Alberta, and BC would weigh approx 40,000 lbs. Therefore to maintain a balance of weight on the container ship you would only load at most 450 40ft Containers and the other 450 spaces would be loaded with empty containers back to Asia.

(2) Once you have loaded the Containers from say Prince George on this ship, the ship then sails to Vancouver to off load and reload more containers, and then to a US Port (say Oakland) to off load and reload, and then it sails back to Asia. This is what is referred to as the Butterfly Route.

You can see from the foregoing that the service from Pr George to Asia is terrible. If you loaded a container in Prince George to Prince Rupert and then loaded a truck to Vancouver, and loaded a container, the Vancouver Container would be sitting on the dock when the Container ship arrived from Pr Rupert with the load from Prince George.

So in essence there is no benefit from a service point of view to load containers to Prince Rupert, and I suspect that there is no incentive from a freight rate point of view either.

If the Container ship could off load all 6000 Containers in Prince Rupert and load 6000 loaded containers and return directly to Asia then you would have a good service route in both directions, however at this point in time there are not sufficient loads available to do this, and its not likely there will be in the next few years, thats why the CN Intermodal facility in Prince George is in trouble. They are having difficulty securing loads to Prince Rupert.

When you ship loads to Vancouver you have the ability to send your product anywhere in the world, Asia, India, South America, Europe, etc; etc;. When you send it to Prince Rupert you are restricted to sending it to Asia only, as they are the only ships that go to Prince Rupert.

Container rates from China to US and Eastern Canadian destinations include the cost of returning the Containers to China empty. If the Railay manages to get a load in one of these containers this is additional revenue, however the whole concept was not based on getting outbound loads.

Another issue is that when there is sufficient loads coming out of the East, Memphis, etc; then they are not interested in, nor do they have the capapcity to pick up loads at Prince George. The reason they are getting some loads now is because of the recession in the USA and a shortage of loads.

Another issue that people are not aware of is what is called **Cabotage**. This is similiar to demurrage on rail cars. What it means is that on Containers owned by International Shipping Co's like Cosco, Hanjin, American President Lines, Hapag Lloyd, etc; Railways have a 30 day period from the time the Container is unloaded at a Port to get it to the Customer, and get it back to a Port to be available for return to Asia. There is a penalty for failure to do so, and the penalty can be as high as the cost of the Container itself.

Cabotage forces railway to move containers in a timely manner and not delay them to get loads at the cost of the shippng company, and also to prevent a shortage of containers to load in Asia etc; with merchandise. Cabotage rules are different in different Countries, and the penalties differ, however the intent is to keep containers moving in a timely fashion.

At the present time outbound loads from Prince Rupert are approx 40% of inbound loads, which would be in the area of roughly 400 loads per ship. Most of these loads come from Eastern Canada and USA.

Palpou- what exactly do shipping containers have to do with McBride sewer?
Surprised you didn't compare the story to the airport-or the bridge-or the other bridge-or the RCMP-or the PAC-or the CN Centre and the Cougars-or the river road-or the potholes-or the lack of the 'good old days'.
Isn't it a shame that things do change? And why so fast?

Perhaps somebody in McBride should talk to somebody in Victoria?
I hear they know all about dumping sewage and wastewater into the ocean down there,so they should have some very extensive knowledge that might help Mcbride out!
I also hear what they can't dump,they store in the parliment buildings?
But that may just be a rumour.
I love a good rumour!

red2b. As usual your a dollar short and a day late.

The point that is being made is that if the Governments of the day, didnt waste our money on infrastructure of things that will not happen like the Cargo Planes at the Airport, or building up River Road because they can get matching funds from the Federal Government, or Spending $45 Million on a Police Station when a $5 Million reno would be sufficient, then there would be money available for Projects like the one in Mcbride.

All the projects that you mention above are prime examples of Government waste, with little or no return, or value. Thats where the problems lies. If you support all these wacky projects, then you can take some of the responsibility when they go down in flames.

The CN Centre is a prime example. It doesnt make enough money to support itself. The City kites all the business it can to the CN Centre so that they can reduce the loses. In the meantime the Civic Centre sits empty all year. When it was built it was supposed to be for all the conventions that would come to town, and all the shows that would go there. Where are they????

So we have a huge empty Civic Centre, and a under used CN Centre, and a sorely under used Northern Sports Centre, a hardly ever used Art Centre, and we want to build a seasonally used Performing Arts Centre.

Meanwhile we pour excrement into the Fraser River at Mcbride and the Nechako River in Vanderhoof, which gets into our water system, and if it wasnt for the chlorine and flouride it would kill us.

So what do you want. Goofy buildings, stupid bridges, roads to nowhere, or good roads within the City and clean water. Duh????

"red2b. As usual your a dollar short and a day late."

That was rather rude don't you think?
Oh ya, I forgot-you can't say anything positive and you are rude to anyone who questions you. Such is life.

Well, Palopu, you have certainly taught me a few things about container traffic in North America, your comments seem credible. Thanks for that. We have certainly digressed from the the topic however, that being the matter of sewage treatment for the village of McBride. It seems to me that this matter should be a lot higher on someone's priority list than it apparently is. Surely the government types aren't going to stand by while raw sewage is, or soon could be, flowing into a waterway in our province. Isn't this of vital importance? Do I want to eat a fish caught downstream from McBride? Anyhow, I find this idea to filter village effluent through a wooded area to be intriguing.
metalman.

The system has been used in other parts of the world and it seems to work fine. Hopefully McBride will get the money and be able to move forward with the project.

“This lagoon has been at capacity for 15 years” says Margaret Graine, the Economic Development Officer for McBride. “We need a second lagoon just to bring us up to current capacity"

Does anyone understand these words?

There is "below capacity", "at capacity" and "above capacity".

This lagoon has been "at capacity" fo 15 years according to the words.

Then that is followed by "we need a second lagoon just to bring us up to current capacity".

Well, in that case, they have been exceeding ther capacity from the sounds of it.

If that is the case, they seem to have been dumping less than primary treated sewage into the river. Or have they? What exactly is the water quality like downstream of Mcbride. Where does Shelley, for instance, get its water from - the river or wells?

Yeah, I noticed the discrepancy too, at capacity. I gave her the benefit of the doubt, and assumed that current capacity meant all the building permits for new installations that they really should not issue yet.
metalman.