Too bad that Prince George is the last large city in B.C. where citizens don't have the right to choose whether they want to have their water supply chemically treated with fluoride or not!

The rest of the world has already begun to move towards the greater good which is to act with caution when it comes to the long term effect evidence of fluoride addition. This means the discontinuation of the practice is actually the greater good and that is what the vast majority has already done.

Children can choose to have it applied directly to their teeth, either in school programs or at the dentist.

Do I believe that the City will ever listen to the many who don't want to be medicated against their explicit wishes?

No. Absolutely not.

I agree. It must cost something to put this fluoride in the water. Therefore, take this money and use it to provide alternate sources of fluoride for those who want it. Would probably save the city money too.

Why can't fluoridation be something we choose to do?

What's I find amusing is we fluoridate the water, of which only about .5% is used for drinking, if that. Lots of people never drink tap water, but unfluoridated bottled water.

So this is, literally, throwing money down the drain.

I pray Dr. Rozen is not the best and brightest of the dental community in Prince George. She is very confused or has never read the current studies showing benefit is topical not ingested. She failed to mention the differences as not a single researcher can document a mechanism of benefit able to happen at 1ppm topical. The water is ingested quickly unless you hold it in your mouth for the day. There is ZERO doubt in research data the theory of pre eruptive ingested benefit is invalid. The new theory is topical posteruptive with full knowledge that does not happen at 1ppm. Yes it just may happen at 1000ppm as the British health just stated Aug 2008 no benefit for young kids below 1000ppm toothpaste. Rembember you put it on your teeth for a few minutes a then spit. Problem is most young kids swallow far more then they spit so get over dosed that way also. The ones that eat it even more or use large amounts many times a day. The Aussies said 5000ppm would work better but much more ugly dental fluorisis would result.
This dentist needs remedial training before misinforming more people who trust her as being informed. She is a risk to patients until then.
California has admitted dentists are not qualified to speak outside the oral cavity and can lose their license to practice if they dianosis a patient for a drug with whole body effects. Dr. Rozen is claiming unknown patients with unknown doses and unknown medical complications all have benefit as long as water is optimal dose.
What planet is she from?
The fluoridation product for first thing is H2SiF6 or AWWA b703-06 and has never been chronic safety or benefit tested ever in any country. Not once. Dr. Rozen please present your data on this site and to the newspaper as you are the only one that has it. The FDA after 60 years of fluoridation still classifies all ingested fluorides as new unapproved as there has never been a review or approval yet. Please respond Dr. Rozen. It is sort of grandfathered in claiming used prior to 1938 but did admit that was only for rat poison and insecticide as they could find no human use. Close enough for government work with mass medication.
The 1986 surgeons generals review had found severe dental fluorosis was a medical effect but the study was altered to reverse this with out the knowledge of the experts. The 2006 NRC review found 12-0 severe dental fluorosis is a medical effect also which makes fluoridation illegal by law. Also by 12-0 vote they said the MCLG is not protective and should be lowered. 11 EPA unions science unions petitioned congress in 2005 to immediate halt of fluoridation and a goal of ZERO exactly like other cumulative toxins with like toxicity arsenic and lead. These 7,000 whistle blowers have been ignored so far by the EPA management. The lawsuit in 1986 by them to halt fluoridation was also ignored. This is a pattern Dr. Rozen follows also. Yoder K.M. 2007 reveals dental professional ignorance is rampant and pervasive with only a tiny number knowing the current science when tested. Read it on Pubmed.com to see the worst test results you could imagine. Dentists are locked into beliefs and skip reading the studies as I have confirmed so many times listening to very shocking drivel passed off for facts. Show us some facts not endorsements, Please.

Its unfortunate that the city councilors and Mayor couldn't take the time to listen to the scientific evidence presented to them and make a smart health and fiscal choice for our community and get rid of this stuff!

Those promoting fluoridation simply refuse to read the current research showing it is ineffective and dangerous to health. Go to (www.fluoridealert.org) .and read several articles.
Read the letter from Dr. Hardy Limeback ( DDS, PhD Biochemistry) --- Head, Preventive Dentistry, University of Toronto entitled "Why I am now officially opposed to adding fluoride to drinking water"
He was the principal research advisor to the Canadian Dental Asociation for over 10 years in promoting fluoridation. His letter is an apology to other dentists and the public.
Over 140 Research studies listed, including:
Increased risk of bone cancer -- 13 studies
Lead, arsenic, radium contaminants causing toxic water -- 10
Link with fluoride and cancer -- 12
Fluoride causes birth defects -- 5
Fluoride affects the immune systems -- 12
Fluoride is neurotoxic (brain, nerves, lowering IQ) -- 11
There is also a petition signed by over 2600 professionals opposing fluoridation.

Even fluoridationists such as Dr. Rosen will be shocked to learn that, although fluoride collects in and can damage bones as well as teeth, no bone research has been done on children or adolescents which exonerates fluoride at the doses added to water supplies, according to Levy and colleagues in the scientific journal "Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology"

Levy and his team from the Iowa Fluoride Study has been following children since birth, counting their cavities and fluorosed teeth and is also looking to see what damage, if any, fluoride does to bones.

If you don't look for something, it doesn't mean it's not there.

They write: "...fluoride has clearly been shown to have pronounced effects on the skeleton… It has also been reported that fluoride accumulates in the developing skeleton of children at a much faster rate than in adults, so it is plausible that the effects of fluoride on developing bone could be significant. However,
neither the role of fluoride nor the interaction
between fluoride and calcium in bone development
has been widely studied in children or
adolescents."

So in effect your children are the guinea pigs in this on-going experiment.

Ironically, the first fluoridation human experiment started in 1945 in Newburgh New York hinted that even low amounts of fluoride were bone-damaging. After ten years children in fluoridated Newburgh had more cortical bone defects than children in non-fluoridated Kingston, New York.

Unfortunately, the experiment was declared a success after only 5 years due to political pressure. And this is the basis for the claim that fluoridation is safe

Fluoridationists need to take a critical look at the early fluoridation studies before they prescribe fluoride to entire populations with the false belief that it will benefit them.

Reading the Prince George Free Press, and the Citizen over the past few weeks, one would get the impression that fluoridation of the city's water supply is a hot topic.

Now go to www.city.pg.ca and scroll down to the section entitled "Hot Topics." You can report a pothole, and read about garbage collection, but there is nothing about fluoride.

Click on "City Matters" and look under "Public Notice." Nope. Nothing. Media releases? 2009 Councillor Over a Barrell winners. Nothing on Fluoride.

Where is the Mayor on this? For 50 years, the people of Prince George have been receiving this drug without consent. We need to contact Mayor Rodgers and hold him accountable.

His email address is Mayor@city.pg.bc.ca. His office number is 250-561-7609.

Drop him a line, or give him a call. Ask him to explain to YOU how he justifies medicating you and your children without your consent.

Sooner or later, someone will win a lawsuit against the city claiming their miscarriage, broken hip, child's learning disability is a result of the city's fluoridation of the water supply.

No matter what you think of fluoride, that will hit your pocketbook. And mine.

Reading the Prince George Free Press, and the Citizen over the past few weeks, one would get the impression that fluoridation of the city's water supply is a hot topic.

Now go to www.city.pg.ca and scroll down to the section entitled "Hot Topics." You can report a pothole, and read about garbage collection, but there is nothing about fluoride.

Click on "City Matters" and look under "Public Notice." Nope. Nothing. Media releases? 2009 Councillor Over a Barrell winners. Nothing on Fluoride.

Where is the Mayor on this? For 50 years, the people of Prince George have been receiving this drug without consent. We need to contact Mayor Rodgers and hold him accountable.

His email address is Mayor@city.pg.bc.ca. His office number is 250-561-7609.

Drop him a line, or give him a call. Ask him to explain to YOU how he justifies medicating you and your children without your consent.

Sooner or later, someone will win a lawsuit against the city claiming their miscarriage, broken hip, child's learning disability is a result of the city's fluoridation of the water supply.

No matter what you think of fluoride, that will hit your pocketbook. And mine.

Adam, the city avoided a referendum about ten years ago and spent over half a million dollars on the new fluoride addition equipment, ignoring the petitions not to do so. It would require a quantum shift in thinking for them to admit that perhaps it wasn't such a good idea after all!

That is not very likely to happen. That is why it is not even a lukewarm topic with the city.

Until recently the dental profession claimed that mercury amalgam fillings were totally safe and harmless. It claimed that the minute amount of mercury that leaked continuously into the bloodstream of the patient was within *safe limits* and would have no effect on overall health.

Not everyone is affected by the mercury fillings in their teeth, but far too many people have had very debilitating effects on their health, especially the nervous system which only stopped when all the fillings were removed and replaced with white fillings.

Some people trembled uncontrollably, some suffered tinnitus, others lost energy and were too tired to lead a meaningful life.

Not a word from the dental profession but it is somewhat telling that some dentists will now only do white fillings and no more mercury fillings.

Cigarette smoking used to be claimed to be totally harmless. Now we know differently and even second hand smoke is considered by health authorities to be detrimental to our health.

Dr. Rozon did not make one persuasive point as to WHY fluoride should be added to the ENTIRE water supply. She had no documents from any health authority recommending that it is a safe practice.

Let her and the people who are convinced that it is the greatest thing since the invention of sliced bread buy little pills of fluoride which can be dropped into the water which they are about to drink.

It wouldn't be any more difficult than adding a pouch of artificial sweetener to their tea or coffee.

Allow the rest of us to make that choice or decline.

The city of Prince George promotes the use of rain barrels. Why?

As per the City website: "Rainwater is better for your lawn and garden because it is not treated with Chlorine and Fluoride."

It's good to know that the City is concerned about the effect of fluoride on our lawns. When you speak with the Mayor, ask him if he has any advise about mixing baby formula with the City's water.

Even the babies must make a sacrifice for the *Greater Good*! Both the dentist and the mayor insist that we all do!

NO exception!

What boggles my mind is how the city advocates water fluoridation in the name of health, while at the same time, they completely ignore doing something about the health issues that pertain to bad air. Truth be told, they actually make decisions that contribute to the bad air.

To make it even more bizarre, the benefits of fluoride are very open for debate (there is even evidence to suggest that it may be harmful), while it is almost universally accepted that the air in this town is a serious health issue.

One really has to wonder how city leadership reconciles the decisions that come out of their own heads.

NMG. Perhaps we should consider randomly picking people out of the phone book for political office instead of holding elections.

"Forty-two percent (42%) of U.S. voters say a group of people randomly selected from the phone book would do a better job than the current Congress. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that an identical number (42%) disagree, but 16% are not sure.

Last fall, just 33% thought the random group could do as good a job."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2009/42_say_people_randomly_selected_from_phone_book_better_than_current_congress

Has there ever been as much agreement about anything on O250? I doubt it. And it's so easy for the city to change too, and would even save them money. It seems like a no-brainer.

But of course, they know better than us.

To understand why fluoridation happened a book by Chris Bryson ,The Fluoride Deception is one of the best documented ever books with half the book filled with once secret government and industry documents showing the creation of a cover story to protect industry from huge air pollution lawsuits. Then when the AEC was threatened with even bigger lawsuits against critical suppliers to the nuclear bomb project the who fraud went into overdrive. Fluorides were used in huge amounts to produce bomb grade U238 in huge diffusion plants in Oak ridge Ky with almost no one knowing exactly what was going on. Certainly not that they were working exposed to high radiation. The kicker is more died from fluoride then the radiation and fluoride combines with most elements to make them more toxic and pass the brain blood barrier. They immediately noticed workers with negative brain function so bad it put the plant at risk. They ordered a brain effects study during the war. This study was never released but appears to be removed from the files as the number sequence is missing where it was supposed to be.
Marc Edwards documents H2SiF6 increases corrosion so severely it could increase pipe and associated mold and property damage to tens of billions especially when combined with the disinfectant chloramine. Washington DC had lead levels out of control for almost three years from 2000 to 2004 before informing the public. They lied for 3 years in a cover up of levels hundreds and even thousands of times over the MCL of 15ppb. They got caught when a worker told the truth and was fired. The testimony shows the CDC and EPA management assisted in the cover up to save face.
And these are the people you trust for almost all you foundational data. Not a wise choice.
The 2006 NRC was unique in that the chairman mentioned it was the first ever that allowed a person with a stated anti fluoride belief ever on a panel of the government. Garbage in ,garbage out. That way results can be controlled by ignoring the data that goes against fluoridation. This is creative public relation ,not science when only one team plays. That is exactly how things have worked for over 60 to protect fluoridation.
The sad thing is ingested fluorides never have had benefit and even the 21 city dean foundation study showed that. It only showed more fluoride gave more dental fluorosis. They tossed out the far larger number of cities in the study that had high fluoride and more cavities. They ignored all the other minerals like calcium ,magnesium, phosphate and even stontium 90 which have a bigger association with cavity reductions.
The biggest study ever on over 400,000 over 2 decades by teotia showed fluorideat .6ppm and above increased cavities especially when low on calcium. Same in Japan on 20,000 showing more cavities at .4ppm and above. Steellink in Tuson Ar showed in 22,000 kids as fluoride increased cavities increased.
Cavities vary by social class or income so it is easy to pick which groups are low and high to craft a study to Wink Wink prove anything. If you have a policy and ongly give grants to prove that policy and design and analysis and controls of variables are ignored. The study really means almost nothing about science. It just shows what designed for.
The two first test cities were claimed total success in the 5 th year knowing it would take 10 to 15 years to really see what would happen to later developing adult teeth. It takes 5 years before the first second set or you lose the baby teeth. So the data was incomplete and it was only conjecture passed off as science. They varied to data sets to meet their needs of distorting the reports. Delayed eruption is a fact from fluoridation and can skew the data appearing like cavity reduction when it is only cavities delayed but the same total. This is not reported in any of the studies.
http://www.iaomt.org shows the toxicology the dentists ignore usually. Dr Rozen either was misquoted , deceptive or just very confused. Demand transparency and full disclosure. Real current peer review data or risk groups like the 1993 US Tox profile which has been hidden from the US public after a promise in 2000 by EPA medical professionals would be notified. It has not begun yet. Stall and deception is the name of the game.

Dr Osmunson did mention he emailed or called every dentist in the Prince George to extent the opportunity to debate or just give their side of the story and respond back and forth. All declined which is typical as the ADA in the US warns to never debate or even agree when correct data and facts are given. They know they do not hold the moral high ground nor the current science so it is in trust they must use and avoi8d discussion about specific science. Just give lists of endorsements and claims all the valid science supports fluoridation. But do not actually give the specific studies.
I just had the health department hold a secret meeting with the dentists because my dentist mayor asked for them to discuss how to rebut the science I have shown at many meetings at many city commission meetings. When I discovered this had happened two months later they told me I had no rights to any records. I then asked Dr Coleman for the agenda which I was sure was public record. From that I made other requests for power points and hand outs from the Florida ADA and Florida health department. I also asked for who and what was said specificly about me and what actions were to be taken. The director claimed no minutes, tapes ,transcripts or knowledge of who attended existed and I had no rights to it anyway. Florida have a sunshine law that all public meetings are public records and must be made available. They have refused and did say they did not exist also.
They took a dog and pony show to Deland Florida who was discussing halting fluoridation but I did not find out until a week after the presentation. I had asked Port Orange for 3 years to have a debate and they agreed. I was shocked when it was scheduled I was told it was only for health department and dental professions who are experts. I was told by the city managers office I would not be allowed to speak then. I asked before the meeting opened and at the end of the meeting the mayor confirmed no others could speak. The commission did give a couple sort ball questions but also gave thanks dentists would allow fluoridation becaue it would cut into their income in these tough times.Understand I had given them the data showing dentists make more income in fluoridated cities JADA 1972 by 17% more.
Also cosmetic work has doubled in the last 10 years being a mega cash cow many more now milk. Nothing causes more cosmetic damage then fluoridation show the CDC data.This is a conflict of interest of huge proportions. I am not saying this is the goal of every dentist promoting fluoridation but a standard of due diligence should apply. With 18 EPA unions as of 29 FEB 2008 asking to halt fluoridation as useless and a risk for diseases how can the 10,000 whistle blowers be ignored. Go to the http://www.nteu280.org union site and see the history of fluoridation fraud they document. Listen to several of the videos and see what real qualified scientists say. Dentists are not qualified to diagnosis on whole body toxicity issues. Ask them if they are? Canada health has admitted the CDC statement from 1999 that fluoridation was one of the top 10 public health policies did not contain proof to support that claim. In the same MMWR the CDC did admit the primary effect is topical not ingested as once believed. In other words it is the greatest but now proven to not work the way we claim. Also it has no proof to work the way we not claim topical at 1ppm. These people actually get paid big bucks to pass of this stupidity.
In the US most dentists now refuse to use mercury fillings but the ADA still strongly claims near total safety. Most dentists stopped because they read the data they were at the highest risk of all along with staff as they worked with the poison all day. Maybe it was they did not want to poison patients any longer. Maybe it is because they know lawsuits will happen soon just like with asbestos and so many drugs.

Why did the anti-fluoridation people have to bring a dentist in from the good old U.S. of A.? Is it because they think our dentists are stupid or was it because all our dentists believe fluoridation is a good thing? Did anyone ask any of our dentists or did they just find one that agrees with their stance?

I asked my dentist and she wouldnt come out and say "for or against" but she did tell me that flouride is not systemic so "if" it has any benefits it could only be for that brief moment that it might contact your teeth before you swallow.

I'm really surprised to read this quote from Dr. Rozon:

“We don’t want kids to swallow toothpaste because if they swallow a lot, it could cause that mottling look on the teeth, it is not toxic, it is a cosmetic issue.”

Although she is speaking specifically about the risks associated with ingesting fluorodted toothpaste, her comments could be easily construed to be referring to fluorosis in general. Fluorosis is NOT only a cosmetic issue.

Here's another questionable comment:

“There has been no research to link Fluoride with any disease.”

This is patently false.

Here we have a professional opening herself up to liability because her comments may be used by the city to set policy. Perhaps her lawyer should give her a good talking to.

The party-line of her profession is that fluoride IS toxic in large amounts, but that in controlled doses, the benefits outweigh the risks.

By refusing to acknowledge the risks of the treatment that she is advising, no matter HOW minimal, she is setting herself up for legal problems.

I would be more on-board with this whole anti-fluoride thing if the vast majority of anti-fluoride people didn't come across as a bunch of conspiracy theorist wingnuts -- the types of people like Marilyn Juds who write monthly eye-rolling letters to the editor in the local paper.

I Agree, MrPG, and I always skip over those letters and a few others as well. It is always the same people writing the same drivel. I don't know why those letters get printed. I guess because of freedom of speech, not because they are interesting.

Just 5 grams of fluoride,taken at once,will kill most men. 99.9% of fluoridated water ends up in the rivers and streams.Watch this 5 min. video to see the effects: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvExFr5J9BI

A note to MrPG and duffer:There are consciously thinking people that have gone to a lot of time and effort, and using logical reasoning to be informed on this issue. Your comments portray people as conspiracy theorist wingnuts fringe minority that jump on any band wagon going. This is not about infighting, and "you're right & I'm wrong". At the end of the day, plenty is wrong in this world and politicians are not fixing the issues, peoples rights are clearly being eroded, as if we can not take personal responsibility for our own lives. Plenty can and want to, this flies in the face of personal freedoms and choice.

Your comments suggests you have done no studying on the topic and hardly helps the situation.

Cognitive dissonance keeps us stuck and unable to go forward. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvExFr5J9BI

"There are consciously thinking people that have gone to a lot of time and effort, and using logical reasoning to be informed on this issue. Your comments portray people as conspiracy theorist wingnuts fringe minority that jump on any band wagon going."

Really? I'm not portraying anything, this is just my perspective after reading the anti-fluoride people's comments. Many people feel the same way I do.

Oh yeah, and youtube links (no matter how many you provide) do not prove or disprove your position. There is a lot of strange stuff on the internet, some interesting, some just plain wacked out. Lots of conspiracy theories out there as well. And guess what, most of them are just plain false.

I'll make my own mind up, thanks. This is what the anti-fluoride people seem to hate. They want to make everyone's decision for them.

"I'll make my own mind up, thanks. This is what the anti-fluoride people seem to hate. They want to make everyone's decision for them."

The people who are deciding for everyone are City Council. Colin Kinsley avoided a referendum in 1998, not wanting to risk a negative result.

The subject has never been brought before the people.

Whether you would choose fluoride or not, is irrelevant. The decision has already been made for you.

A note to MrPG and duffer:There are consciously thinking people that have gone to a lot of time and effort, and using logical reasoning to be informed on this issue. Your comments portray people as conspiracy theorist wingnuts fringe minority that jump on any band wagon going. This is not about infighting, and "you're right & I'm wrong". At the end of the day, plenty is wrong in this world and politicians are not fixing the issues, peoples rights are clearly being eroded, as if we can not take personal responsibility for our own lives. Plenty can and want to, this flies in the face of personal freedoms and choice.

Your comments suggests you have done no studying on the topic and hardly helps the situation.

Cognitive dissonance keeps us stuck and unable to go forward. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvExFr5J9BI

"The people who are deciding for everyone are City Council."

Isn't that why we elected them? I don't recall electing you or any of the other vocal minority.

"Isn't that why we elected them?"

Perhaps YOU elected them to relinquish your personal rights, but that isn't what elected officials are for.

Most of us elect a representative governments, not dictatorial ones. Where are you from?

Sorry, but that's your perspective. Unlike yourself, I live in the real world. I live in a world where the vocal minority does not get to dictate public policy (although it doesn't stop them from trying).

If you don't like it, run for city council or move.

The real world has people named MrPG?

Uh, nice comeback. If that's your way of saying that I'm right, then I'll accept that.

Hahaha! I'll take that as a touche, MrPG! It doesn't look like we're getting anywhere. Have a great day. Think I'll go crack open a bottled water. ;)

Cheers!