You know what Mr. Krause, it is time our City Councilors started looking out for the people that pay taxes, not so much for the people that don't.

We have all the homeless shelters that a City of this size needs. We have all the help for the "DRUG INFESTED" community we are. We have a "Tall Top" van running around, handing out needles. We have the needle exchange on 3rd Avenue. We have a disgusting downtown, that any decent person, does not want to visit.

Big question for you Mr. Krause, when they knock down the Prince George Hotel, where are all those people going to go. Lets be truthful here Murry, there are a lot of people that live there on a permenant basis, where will they go?? January, and they are out of a home????? Now there is a "Health and Welfare" issue don't you think??

one more thing Murry, I have had some bad stuff happen to me in my life!! Broken back, one lung removed, but never have I asked for a hand out. I work today, and I continue to pay taxes. When will it be my turn to benefit from this "Great Country"!

I am tired of paying for people that won't help themselves!! DO YOU HEAR ME MURRY????

one more thing Murry, I have had some bad stuff happen to me in my life!! Broken back, one lung removed, but never have I asked for a hand out. I work today, and I continue to pay taxes. When will it be my turn to benefit from this "Great Country"!

I am tired of paying for people that won't help themselves!! DO YOU HEAR ME MURRY????

sorry, I posted that twice. And yes, I know what I did wrong.......lol

Samiam. It should be posted twice in the hope that if Murray missed it the first time, he would get the message the second time, however I doubt if he will. Murray is basically an employee of the various Government Agencies, around Prnce George, I suspect most of his cheques in the last 30 years have been signed by one form of Government or another. He has a vested interest in working on these projects.

I agree its time to get real about the cost of all this to the average working person.

instead of reinforcing the resources to keep the homeless downtown, move those resources closer to industrial areas like the BCR site or major retail clusters like the Canadian tire/home depot/walmart or right beside the jail so they can see their potential future.

It is further from sources of drugs and alcohol, and closer to potential employers. If they don't want to be around that area, then they don't want to be helped that bad.

The way I see it, if "we" keep putting services for junkies and drunks near their source, we are only enabling the continuation of a dysfunctional lifestyle. By having those resource further away from those abused substance sources and closer to potential employers, "we" empower the homeless to overcome.

The other side of this coin is self medicating mental illness. The simple solution is OPEN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL. Maybe up by the UNBC medical university.

Samiam
Sounds like you have seen some benifit from this "Great Country " through the medical system. Lately I have too . I wouldn't want to guess what my bad genes have cost us. I hope the lung removal wasn't done because of smoking.
Regards.

"Broken back, one lung removed, but never have I asked for a hand out."

Luckily you have not had a brain injury....

"I agree its time to get real about the cost of all this to the average working person."

Palopou ... can we quit talking in generalities.

You know as well as I do that there are many categories of people who do not need help and many who do.

I am not going to make a long posting identifying some of the obvious situations. Then again, I find that is often needed since not everyone has the same perceptions of what is obvious.

As long as people keep talking about generalities there will never be resolution.

I think you like talking that way because you and others are not interested in resolving the problem.

As far as the people wanting to perpetuate their area of work, please remember that those people, whatever the work, know the problems more intimately than any of us.

Why do you have to come to the conclusion that they are defending their jobs? Why can you not accept the fact that most simply defend the work they do because they believe it is required not fro them but for the people who require the assistance?

Your stance accomplished nothing!!!!

"The simple solution is OPEN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL."

Gee Loki!!!!! That is where SOME of the problems started. It was too expensive to institutionalize those with mental inllnesses. As a result of new meds, it was decided to de-institutionalize some to save money. The system we have in place now is supposed to be cheaper. I do not know if anyone has dared to compare.

A psychiatric hospital or re-instituionalizing some will not mean less taxes. It may mean more taxes and less "freedom".

We hate being around people who are not as well off as we are, don't we. It makes us realize how vulnerable all of us can be. It makes us feel awkward when we have to walk by those asking for a handout on the streets. At the same time, it makes some much more hardened individuals who learn to look the other way and not care.

Walk down Burrard in Vancouver some time during the morning and afternoon rush hours and the weekends when people shop at Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Roots, etc. etc. Each corner stil has someone sitting, often with a sign telling their story.

You know what is true about those areas of Vancpuver. There are no social services in those areas. There are no police stations, no needle exchanges. Those individuals who are there are there because of the traffic. The probability that someone will throw some change to them is much higher.

I guarantee you that if we ever get more people downtown, the other will not remove themselves. In fact, I think there will be a greater reason to be there to get handouts.

Relocation does not solve the problem. De-institutionalizing them does not solve the problem. Re-institutionalizing them does not solve the problem.

gus: normally I agree with your ideas, and I really appreciate the data mining you provide. In this case I have to wag the index finger at you.
You slammed palopou for speaking in generalities, well sir, I think your comments in this story need a positive suggestion included. Being a constant nay sayer is not conducive to any solution.

I suggested a psychiatric hospital because I am aware that the reason many brain injured and other mental health subjects were cast to the streets when they reduced all the mental health institutions. The proof is on the streets that we as a society need those institutions.

notice I used the term subjects instead of victim, because the mentally ill often are not suffering. It is those in proximity that suffer from their illness.

Sure hope that the "Wellness Centre" downtown might have a lab a lot better and bigger than the one with the phone booth size at the Phoenix Medical Centre on 10th Ave. What a cubbyhole of embarrassment. Especially if ya gotta wait around two or more hours while ya get yer diabetes test. People lined up out the door into the lobby and all the way right up to the elevators. Smaller is better? Right? We have a bunch of underachieving know nothing ninnies running this town.

Go to the lab in the hospital, then, Harbinger. It is staffed by the same people as the Phoenix which is a blood collection satellite of the hospital.

Gus. I am not going to explain everything that happens in this town just so people dont have to get off their asses and find out for themselves. A general statement on a lot of issues quite often is enough.

However to make your day, I would ask you to give us some indication of how many various facilities there are in Prince George to look after the needy and homeless. I cannot even begin to list them all, however the biggest one of course would be social welfare (or in Orw ells 1984 double speak Human Resources) Then we have the Salvation Army, St Vincent de Paul, St Pats House, Activators, Asap, Awac, Phoenix Transition, Elizabeth Fry, Detox, Native Friendship Centre, Detox. etc;etc;etc;

In addition we used to have a Treatment Centre (Nechako Treatment Centre) but the Government in its wisdom closed it down. There is also the new centre that opened up at Baldy Hughes.

There is no overriding Agency that keeps track of all these different organizations, and the services that they provide, and if you think that people do not take advantage of the services provided you are naive.

The housing ;provided at 17th and Queensway, 18 Units that cost approx $234,000.00 per unit is a prime example of how stupid and out of control this situation is. One the one hand we have homeless people sleeping on the streets, and on the other hand we have homeless in $234,000.00 apartments, with heat and lights provided.

The street people(Downtown) are provided three meals per day, by St Vincents, in addition they are provided all their necessary clothing on an ongoing basis.

Some (not all) smoke, drink, gamble, and do drugs, and have phones. Some are waiting at the banks at midnight so that when their welfare cheques are deposited they can get the money and head for the Casino, or the drug dealer, or liquor store.

I suspect that this whole town is nothing more than enablers. We need to have more control over how these people are looked after, so that there can be some sort of way to get at least some of them into treatment.

Even our jail system is a form of service for some of these people.

By providing some money to these various organizations the Government of the day has basically downloaded their responsibilities.

We have four levels of Government in this country, the very lowest paid Government worker would be in the $50,000 per year range. We have literally hundreds of thousands of Government employees,, elected and otherwise, and we cant solve this problem.

I suggest we cant solve it because the Government lacks the will to deal with it.

Simply put, most homeless, and needy people do not Vote.

People not like us are like moths around a flame? Snuff the flame and then they will go away? Not die. Moths don't. Just go away to somewhere else?

"We have all the homeless shelters that a City of this size needs."

Really? So it is just a figment of our imaginations then when we see destitute people on the street?

"notice I used the term subjects instead of victim, because the mentally ill often are not suffering. It is those in proximity that suffer from their illness."

Which orfice did you pull this out of?! Ignorance is bliss I guess. Here is a link should you choose to swallow your venom, breathe and understand the issue through education:

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/mhd/fact_sheets.html#MentalHealth

Some severe mental health cases require institutionalization but that is not the issue here. The issue is to provide a centralized service to society's most vulnerable. The Health and Wellness Center is one solution.

Did you know?

"Mental health is a vital part of a person’s overall wellbeing. Mental health problems and disorders, including addictions, are widespread throughout all sections of society. One in five British Columbians, or approximately 882,000 people, will experience some form of mental health disorder this year."

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/mhd/

Myth vs. truth regarding mental illness:

http://www.cmha.ca/bins/content_page.asp?cid=3&lang=1

For those to lazy to click the link here are four of them copied and pasted from the site:

"How much do you know about mental illness? Here are some of the common myths -and truths.

People with mental illness are violent and dangerous. The truth is that, as a group, mentally ill people are no more violent than any other group. In fact, they are far more likely to be the victims of violence than to be violent themselves.


People with mental illness are poor and/or less intelligent. Many studies show that most mentally ill people have average or above-average intelligence. Mental illness, like physical illness, can affect anyone regardless of intelligence, social class or income level.


Mental illness is caused by a personal weakness. A mental illness is not a character flaw. It is an illness, and it has nothing to do with being weak or lacking will-power. Although people with mental illness can play a big part in their own recovery, they did not choose to become ill, and they are not lazy because they cannot just "snap out of it."


Mental illness is a single, rare disorder. Mental illness is not a single disease but a broad classification for many disorders. Anxiety, depression, schizophrenia, personality disorders, eating disorders and organic brain disorders can cause misery, tears and missed opportunities for thousands of Canadians."

Palopou.

I spoke about people and their specific problems, not facilities. Many of the facilites you named are hand out placed, not hand up places. They are places that answer the question "do you have a coat?" with "here it is" rather than "here is what YOU have to do to get one and here is how we will help you get one for yourself."
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You responded to Samiam who wrote in part:

“ ….. it is time our City Councilors started looking out for the people that pay taxes, not so much for the people that don't. …… We have all the homeless shelters that a City of this size needs. We have all the help for the "DRUG INFESTED" community we are.”

You then responded in part with “…. Murray …. as a vested interest in working on these projects. ….. I agree its time to get real about the cost of all this to the average working person.”

Loki then posted in part: “move those resources closer to industrial areas like the BCR site or major retail clusters ….. the other side of this coin is self medicating mental illness. The simple solution is OPEN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL. ….
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Samiam lumps all people that do not pay taxes together and implies that all those individuals are druggies.

Palopou builds on that and provides the opinion Murray and others working to help those who need help in the community are doing so out of self interest and making sure they will continue to have a job.

Loki brings up an idea that will mean MORE money should be spent by re-institutionalising people which would be expected to cost more money and that the solution for the others is to move them away from downtown.
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I provided my opinion that one cannot lump all people together. Each has their own characteristic and one must deal with each differently.

I am not a social service provider. I am not a sociologist. Nor are you.

I do know people who are on welfare and are on their own. I have experienced those with downs syndrome. Also those who are autistic. Also those who are teens and have been abandoned by their family and have been kicked out of school. None are/were drug users. They ALL need a support system either for their entire lives or for parts of their lives while they get it together. None, from my point of view, were or are lazy. I also feel none ought to be institutionalized where they are likely to get progressively worse.

ALL get/got support in one form or another. NONE of the ones I know/knew show(ed) up downtown. Many of you forget or may not even know that each of those cases have access to public funding through their family.

The essential difference not that those at home are different from those downtown. It is that those who are downtown do not have a familial support system. That is where the social services come in, to support those who do not have a home safety net any longer. It is not the same, but it is better than nothing.

It is amazing how often people forget that humans are social animals. With the exception of a few loners, most of us need the moral support of others in order to develop as humans. Remove that support and you get caged animals – depressed, mood swings, aggressive, withdrawn, anti-social, etc. etc …..

You want solutions from me? Think support, not abandonment.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/08/05/HomelessInPortland

Here is a site on taxpayer support for autistic children. $46 million a year in BC.
http://www.kelowna.com/2009/09/17/b-c-government-axes-intensive-therapy-program-for-autistic-children