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You Don't Need To Go To Oslo To Get The Prize To Know The Blue Book Tells Nothing

By Ben Meisner

Wednesday, December 23, 2009 03:45 AM

I wasn’t going to wade into the matter of what we pay the Doctors in B.C. , but  here I go.

Each year the “Blue Book” lists what they have earned and usually someone (without any idea of how business operates) grabs the figures and uses them, suggesting that Docs make a whole lot of money.

I know that to be quite different. My buddy has been a Doctor as long as I have known him and year in year out I have watched him have to decline to go fishing for the weekend, head off to Mexico with me , because he is married to his work.

For many years there were only two people in his speciality, so that meant he had to take calls every second day. "Want a beer?" I’d ask, "Can’t do it, I’m on call" would be his reply. He would be on call 180 days a year. Now that has changed and so has his income, problem is he is getting old and he is going to have to begin to take fewer calls.

So let me give you a little inside, let’s say the Doc bills $320,000 a year. Office help $36,000, including benefits and holidays. Cost of office; $20,000, Equipment and services; $10,000, insurance, (if he doesn’t do a good job we like to sue); $14,000. Vehicle, got to be up to date, because when you’re on call your expected to be on the scene right away, gas, insurance, depreciation and maintenance $15,000, phone pager, ( even if you’re at my house when the hospital rings  even if it’s midnight you come running or risk using that insurance policy ) $3,000, holiday help, you bet , the fellow coming into take over your practise while you're away wants money, he’s probably staying in a hotel , $5,000. Meals away from home, when you get called in the middle of the night, you can’t take time to whip up a ham sandwich and after awhile the cafeteria food gets pretty hard to take. $5,000. Accounting, $5,000, remember if you don’t have someone make up the bills and make sure you get paid, you don’t.

Now that adds up to $108,000 dollars. But keep in mind; if you want to have some RSP’S it will be up to you to contribute to them there will be no help from your employer, you are the employer. Statutory holidays, your staff gets paid; you get paid what you normally would for being on call. Overtime for those holidays, are you crazy you get paid by the call not the day you're working.

So here we have it, tax on $200,000, 50%, so you're left with a $100,000 for the year, $8,330 a month.

Now if you put in 65 hours a week , you will (after tax) put $28.52 an hour into your pocket.

Now did I forget, you may want to work fewer hours, but how do you tell the people that need your help that you have decided you’re going to take a few weeks off? Find another doctor. So you may want to work less and bill less but the problem is, as another old friend of mind found out, living in a small rural town, that when Johnny breaks his arm, there is no "on call" folks know where you live and they will soon find you.

There is a further problem that the blue book doesn’t talk about. The new generation of doc’s doesn't like to work long hours like the people they are replacing, (you know, the ones that bill alot) they are entering the market with no strings attached and no reason to work like the people they are replacing.

As a final note, did I forget to mention that it takes 13 to 14 years to become a specialist in my buddy’s field? Now I don’t know what the complainers might say, but I hold to the reasoning that if you haven’t had a pay check for the first 13 to 14 years of your work, you should be entitled to receive something for that. The blue book unfortunately doesn’t mention all this, nor do the people who like to complain.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.


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From the USA
http://www.forbes.com/2008/05/05/physicians-training-prospects-lead-careers-cx_tw_0505doctors.html

Quoted from the above linked article:

"As costs continue to increase and reimbursement rates are lower, salaries are decreasing. The average physician's net income, adjusted for inflation, declined 7% from 1995 to 2003, according to The Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan policy research organization that studies the U.S. health care system to inform the thinking and decisions of policymakers in government and private industry. The most lucrative specialties--radiology, oncology, anesthesia and dermatology--require the most training, and that means many physicians can't pay off their student loans and earn a substantial paycheck until well into their 30s."
BTW, if anyone is interested in the "blue book" it is a public document. The last 9 years can be seen here:

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/financial_statement.html
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

The above table provides some USA average NET INCOME pay for various physicians based on specialties.

Looks like spine surgery is the one to go get into ... average net income is just under $400,000 in the first two years of practice.
Good Article Ben
Dr's and others who are percieved as paid "abudantly" deserve our thanks and respect
When we hear the incomes and pension packages given to some politicians and their appointees this doesn't sound like a lot of money.
I've never had a problem with what doctors made. Anyone who has the smarts and ability to do the job should be well compensated IMO.
To the local newspaper that prnted the doc's wages, how about printing all your own wages. You know tit for tat.
That's not the way it works seamutt. Doctors are paid through our taxes and yes, we have a right to know that. Private industry, not so much.

That being said, I have no problem with the compensation doctors make. As others have noted, they put in a lot of time and effort and should be rewarded for it.
"As costs continue to increase and reimbursement rates are lower, salaries are decreasing. The average physician's net income, adjusted for inflation, declined 7% from 1995 to 2003,"
==========================================

I believe a correct understanding of this statement above is the key to understanding what's wrong in our entire economy.

How much did ALL 'net incomes', on average, adjusted for inflation, decline in the same period?

7%, or more, or less?

I don't know offhand. But perhaps Gus or someone else who has more time and ability to find the answer to that online than I do at the moment, could tell us.

I would be very surprised if net incomes in general, adjusted for inflation, 'increased' in that same period. Even though the 'dollar' figure of those net incomes may have for many, or even most.

You may be getting 'more', in dollars, in other words, but it takes still 'more dollars' again than that to meet your overall ongoing COSTS of living. And I don't believe the difference, if there is one, can be explained away by saying that we have 'that much' more of a better STANDARD of living, over that same period.

Here you go .... :-) 1 minute through google + posting time ...

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2006/07/24/prsc0724.htm

"The study said the average net income adjusted for inflation for all physicians dropped 7% from 1995 to 2003, the last year studied in the survey.

In contrast, income for nonphysician professionals increased 7% during that time."
I think Doctors deserve to be very highly paid. They have incredible responsibilities and burdens. They are responsible for people's lives every day.
Their jobs are incredibly difficult and stressful.
I only ask that as a patient or family member that I should be treated with respect when I go into their office, this includes dealing with their receptionist/assistant or whomever. I can honestly say lately some people have been treated incredibly rudely. I personally was shocked at one doctor's receptionist - and I wasn't even complaining. All I wanted was to clarify something and lady refused to let me even speak......it was shocking!!
Its a fact tha our Doc's only chew up asmall portion of Medicare. Pharmacy costs and the Hospitals eat the rest

Maybe the family doctor is left behind in income but what about the specialists and elective surgeries that take out close to a million bucks annualy. And there are many that that play politics with their patience to increase their take home pay.

So the guy only takes home $100,000 a year. Thats still a nice chunk of money compared to those who have tnree jobs to support their family. I wouldnt shed a tear for our Docs its all about choices

Cheers
Its all in the numbers, and how you do business.

Years ago we had a doctor, that had his wife working in the office, and she brought in 2 preschool kids. This of course was significant savings for them, and after about 5 years of pumping people through the office they packed up the family, the horses, etc; and headed off to Ontario.

The fact that a doctor has to have a good vehicle also works in his favour as the vehicle and insurance gas, etc; is tax deductible, and therefore means that he probably does not have a privae vehicle . This is in fact a savings to him of $15000.00 per year as opposed to a cost.

His releif during vacation is covered by the fees paid by the patients looked after while he was gone, and therefore would be included in his overall income.

$5000.00 for meals might be a bit of a stretch.

His investments into a RRSP are not taxed until he takes the money out, so therefore he should have significant tax savings, plus a good pension when he retires.

So we can probably say that his take home is closer to $10,000.00 per month, which is a good salary.

Of course there are the additional hours, the on call time, etc; but these issues go with the territory.

One alternative might be to be a logging truck driver out in the middle of nowhere in -30 degree weather at 4am getting loaded. Or the guy that is sitting on a loader freezing his ass off.

There are a lot of jobs that I would avoid like the plague, so in the final analysis a doctors position, etc; would not be the worst by a long shot.

Having said that, I am not opposed to what they get paid, and would not want to be without one.
And all this has what to do with Oslo?????????
I like the one about the logging truck driver. He is living in a 500,000 dollar house with all the toys while only claiming he only makes 30 grand a year. Its like doctors, some making big money, some not. CRA is catching up to these people.
Check Dentists. There's real money.
Dentists take cash, credit cards, and dental plans. Not like doctors. Ever notice there are no shortage of dentists? Must be the cash and our rules concerning our socialist doctors.

Imorge:- "Check Dentists. There's real money."

Not to hear the dentists tell it they don't, Imorge.

Nor, lawyers, especially ones in the USA. There's too many of them, and they're crying poor. Have heard the same is true here for many of them.

My sister-in-law is an electrical engineer, and says the big bucks aren't to be found there either. Nor in "engineering" in general.

So just who are these "nonphysician professionals" whose net incomes "increased 7% during that time"?

Optometrists don't appear to be doing too badly. They can nick you directly for about twice as much as the BC Medical used to pay them for an eye-exam. 'Course there might've been a fall off in business when BC Medical stopped payments, too.

But who else?
I wonder if the guy sitting in the truck freezing his ass off paid $20,000 a year for 13-14 years to learn how to drive the truck. Or the guy on the landing did he spend 13 years learning how to buck?
Oh, and do you think all of the doc’s that show up at the hospital for an emergency call come between 9.00 and 5.00pm.

Just a little thought goes a long way
I think you are not reading the posts trudy. I would say most are okay with the so called salaries for medical doctors.

BTW, I say so called salaries since, as we know, the dollars attributed to doctors in the Citizen are not salaries at all, but the billings that doctors did to MSP.

As Ben pointed out in his article, there are costs associated with that since the doctors have basically all set up some sort of company under which they work. As those who are familiar with companies know, there are all sorts of good uses the money left over after all offcie expenses are paid can be used for, including investments by the company, not by the individual. The amount a doctor pulls out of the company for a salary depends on how much they have available to pull out and how much they need to live on.

Some have side interest. They might invest in a local coffee shop or bagel place. It might go sour and the investment becomes a business loss.

Others migh invest in real estate, etc. etc.
I wanted to be a tree surgeon once. But I couldn't stand the sight of sap.