I agree. Keep Pine Valley where it is.

Although seemingly advantageous to the argument of keeping Pine Valley where it is, you cannot compare Pine Valley to Fort George Park. One is open free of charge to the public, the other is not. Yes, there would be an uproar if parts of Fort George Park were packaged up and sold off, in the case of Pine Valley you have a limited amount of people that actually care about the place one way or another.

With all due respect to the "Friends of Pine Valley", if the city can sell those lands at some point in the future AND replace Pine Valley with a similar course, it's a no-brainer that they should do just that.

Pine Valley, as a golf course, is a dump. Let's be honest here. Every other Par 3 course in town is better. The only thing Pine Valley has going for it is location and accessibility. The layout is mediocre, the condition of the course is terrible and it's not exactly safe given the cris-crossing of holes, the experience level of people using the course and the fact that there are virtually no trees to serve as a natural barrier. As one fellow I know puts it, it should be renamed "Pineless Valley", LOL.

The absolute best case scenario would be for the PGGCC lands to actually sell and as part of the sale conditions, ensure that a portion of the existing golf course lands are converted to a new 18 hole Par 3 course that would then replace Pine Valley. There are a number of already great Par 3 holes on the PGGCC lands that could be retained and it probably wouldn't take much to convert or add the additional holes that would be required to make it an even 18. You may even be able to stretch it into a 27 hole course. The quality of the course would be increased by ten fold overnight, the number of users would increase (better for the city from a profitability point of view), you wouldn't lose any of the benefits of the existing Pine Valley (location, beginner course, etc.) and you would also then have another developable chunk of land in the existing Pine Valley lands, that the city could hold for eventual sale. Such a re-development would also add retain some green space for that entire parcel of land.

It would be a no-brainer. The big IF is whether the PGGCC lands will ever sell.

The only reason that the City would build a 18 hole par 3 Golf Course on the PGGCC land, would be because they could then access the land that Pine Valley presently sits on, and sell it for development. They have been trying to get this property for years, and it seems it is now within their grasp.

HOWEVER THERE IS A FLY IN THE OINTMENT.

The Prince George Golf and Curling Club property has not been sold. It seems that because the City controls the zoning, they can stall any sale as long as they please. The original plan was to be located at the new golf course last year.

The PGGCC now has serious problems. Memberships are down, revenue is down, debt is up, average age of members is probably around 60. They have to do some major tree clean up this year at considerable cost.

What happens if the PGGCC goes broke.
(a) No new Golf Course in North Nechako.
(b) City takes over the Course???
(c) Those members of the PGGCC who are presenlty members could get a new membership in the new 18 hole par 3.
(d) The new par 3 would be run by a contractor such as is now done with Pine Valley, and with the closure of Pine Valley the new course would be quite busy.
(e) The Curling Club would remain in its present quarters for the foreseeable future.
(d) The restaurant and club house would probably remain.

(e) The City gets the Pine Valley property for development.

(((F))) The general public who presently go to Pine Valley and enjoy themselves in duffer heaven will get the Royal Shaft, because they will have a hard time getting on, and golfing at the new par 3.

This is just supposition on my part, but hey, since when has Joe Sixpack ever got a deal from anyone in the town.

The question that I think needs asked, is why is the PGGCC in such dire straits? Is there an issue with the core viabilty of the business, or is it more of a management issue in regards to how that business is operated?

I have a gut feeling that if the course did go broke, there would be a number of investors willing to purchase it and take it in a different direction.

As for the current PGGCC members taking up all the tee times if the lands were re-developed into a Par 3, that is laughable. First off, the only way the lands would be re-developed into a Par 3 would be if they were sold. If they do get sold, that means a new full sized course would be developed so the members would go there. Secondly, you simply cannot compare a Par 3 course to a full sized course like the PGGCC. It's apples and oranges and they serve different niches. People that are accustomed to playing full sized courses, would not accept playing a Par 3 as a permanent replacement for their pastime. If you golfed you would understand this. A high end Par 3 course would certainly attract more people overall, however, the overwhelming majority of people who were accustomed to playing the big course would still play at a big course. If there were no PGGCC then they'd go to Aberdeen or even Aspen.

There is enough demand in town for all of the courses that we currently have. If we can do a significant upgrade to Pine Valley and still be in a high net positive cash position afterwards, why not?

NMG. Your overlooking a few obvious points.

(1) The PGGCC is a registered society, and therefore I doubt that they could just sell the Golf Course. Who would get the money? The members. How would you compensate past members. How would you decide how much money each member would receive. I doubt that they could legally take the money. So if they dont relocate then I suspect that the Course would revert to the City, and it would become part of their planning for that area.

(2) As I mentioned the average age of the members for the PG Golf Course is 60 years. These people are not about to go to Aberdeen which is not a walkable course for older people. Some might go to Aspen, however if the executive 18 hole course was any good at all they would probably stay where they are. Especially the women, and the curlers.

(3) If there is such a demand in town for these courses, then why is the PG Course going broke. Why is golfing way down at the Par 3, and why are green fees, and memberships down at Aspen and Quesnel. Why are courses going broke in Kamloops, Vernon, and Kelowna.

The fact of the matter is there are less people golfing these days, not only in Prince George but in North America as a whole. Green Fees in North America were down 300,000 in 2007 over 2008, and I expect that it is even worse now.

When you are in a recession you dont spend a lot of money on golf.

(1) No clue how that would all work but I'm not sure it could just revert to the City. Wouldn't that create similar issues to reverting to another entity?

(2) The PGGCC may indeed be a walkable course, but how many of the 60+ year olds are actually walking it? I'd hazard a guess that most of them are already using power carts. Also, I'm not sure how much fun they'd have going to an Executive Par 3 course where they'd have to leave 60 or 70% of their clubs in their bag or at home because they'd be useless on a Par 3 layout. It would be like telling a jet boater to stop boating on the Nechako and instead spend all their time at Tabor Lake. Sure they "could" boat at either location, but would they?

(3) Why is the course going broke? That is the million dollar question. A few thoughts: They don't really cater to the general public (despite whay they advertise) so they don't get as much new business as they could, most every time I've been out there the restaurant sits virtually empty (while still paying the operating costs) and they have more viable competition in town from Aberdeen (no longer the only game in town).

Then there is also the recession argument that you raise, however, that's a short-term trend and most any organization that has been around as long as the PGGCC, should be able to absorb a short-term hit like that. Why they seem unable to is beyind me. Maybe that's a better question for their board of directors.