Carney Hill School- Not The Way To Go

Thursday, February 18, 2010 03:45 AM

Even if you can make a solid argument about the manner in which the Fraser Institute grades school classes across the province, the very fact that Carney Hill School came in last is sufficient to encourage parents, regardless of their feelings ,to not have their children attend that school.

Carney Hill is an open learning school with a soon to be focus on Aboriginal teaching. It already has a school population of about 80% Aboriginal. Now if even the grading is say only 40% accurate would that be sufficient to send your kids to attend that school?

The problem is that the aboriginal population of BC is not graduating or showing the same progress as other children in BC. That is a fact, quite apart from the Fraser findings.

Under the new proposal, the school will teach more Aboriginal values and will have on hand elders to assist children in their daily studies. The school will provide 2 meals a day and has looked at a third.

Now let’s look at the proposal at face value.

The problem of the children receiving an education on a par with their counterparts in other walks of life does not begin in the school, but rather begins at home.

Why in the world would you encourage someone to abrogate their responsibilities for raising their children and then expect those students not to share the same values as their teachers? Loosely put the mothers and fathers feel no need to feed their children, why would the children want anything more?

If the senior family members of the individual family feel that education is a low priority, how then can you expect those school children to think any different in a school that will cater to their level of need?

There should have been a learning curve from when we sent off all aboriginal kids to religious schools, and while the new generation has come a long way, a segregated school in every sense of the meaning will not improve that learning.

I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.

Previous Story - Next Story

Email |

Print |

Facebook |

Twitter |

Digg |

Del.icio.us

Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 03:45 AM in Views by Ben Meisner

Return to Home

Comments

Posted by: rufus1 on February 18 2010 7:54 AM

very good points. difficult to argue and debate this question without running up against the "politically correct" wall.There are many academically successful aboriginal people --- I wish they would take the lead in discussing this question --- if they have I have missed it

Posted by: metalman on February 18 2010 8:08 AM

Well said Mr. Meisner, I agree with you. Canadian society is perpetuating, if not encouraging, division between aboriginals and 'all others' The concept of the aboriginal focus puzzles me. Why are we not encouraging all Canadians to unite, as one people, under one set of laws? At the end of the day wherever societies exist on planet earth, someone has to be responsible for maintaining some sort of economy, in order to provide a means of living, even if it is just the basics of life. To allow one distinct sector of a society special treatment provided and funded by the rest of the society is wrong.
All the children are going to learn is that they will be provided for, and that little needs to be done to earn the hand out. It has been proven time and again across the world that true, lasting help comes in the form of a hand up, not a hand out. Let the past lie, and let's look toward a better future for all, united.
metalman.

Posted by: Outwest on February 18 2010 8:40 AM

for some of us Education ,Training for a Job are top priority to make it in this World, other just don't care , unless thinking changes, nothing else will!

Posted by: The Real Moses on February 18 2010 10:40 AM

Rather than looking at the Fraser Institute report, one should look to see if the students who attend Carney Hill are doing better than they were before. If so, keep it up...it's going in the right direction.

Ben, this is an Aboriginal "choice" school. Parents choose to put their kids there. Comparing this to residential schools or other forms of segregation is not exactly fair. The school is open to all, aboriginal and non-aboriginal are free to choose this school (or another) so it is not segregation.

Yes, parents have a responsibility to make sure their kids are educated and fed. But if they don't follow through on their responsibility or are unable to...the broader society has to step in to help...for the kid's sake and for their and our future's sake. Yes, its costly, but it's the right thing to do, and it cost's less than letting them fall through the cracks.

Posted by: Harbinger on February 18 2010 4:04 PM

Why not make all schools "Aboriginal choice" schools? What a joke. Is this school gonna lower their standards to accommodate the lowest common denominator to help them graduate? If not, why not? And if that's the case maybe all the white kids who attend might get an easier ride through the school. Sure am glad the Charter of Rights says everyone in Canada is equal.

Posted by: Palopu on February 18 2010 7:54 PM

White kids have been getting a free ride in schools for years.

When was the last time you heard of a student failing a class. As far as I know they were moved through the system and graduated even though they learned very little.

I never could understand how the school system would allow people to pass into upper grades without the corresponding marks.

One day a **light** came on in my head. If people were allowed to fail, then over a short period of time they would drop out of school. (Just like in the good olds days). Problem is there would be a significant drop in attendence, and a corresponding drop in funding. Is it possible we keep them in school to keep up the funding???? I would hope not, however there does not seem to be a logical reason to keep them in school.

There is a high number of students who drop out in North Central BC, and a higher number of Aboriginals. There are many reasons for this, however generations of poverty are by far the main reason.

The conditions under which a lot of these students live make it almost impossible to advance through the school system.

A drive from Cache Creek to Dawson Creek to Prince Rupert, with a few side trips should give you some indication of the conditions that a lot of people in this Province live under.

We shouldnt confuse those who reside in and go to school in college heights, or some other upscale areas of the City with what is available for people from other areas who do not have access to high paid cushy jobs, Government Jobs, etc; etc; etc;

Those who have, always seem to think they earned it, when in fact it was handed to them on a silver platter. Those who have not must work 10 times harder to get to the same level.

I dont have a solution, however I doubt if segregation is the answer.

Posted by: supertech on February 18 2010 9:57 PM

The only way to get rid of this problem is education but, unfortunately, that needs some resposibility from the parents. Many of those parents are kids themselves so this becomes a catch 22. It can't be fixed either way. They have no money and no guidance--better get Krause on it.

Posted by: detoe43 on February 18 2010 10:39 PM

Multifaceted issue. Personal experience &
observation...I'm currently watching a young lady struggle with her grade 8 studies. Part of the problem is that the elementary school she attended adopted
the lowest common denominator philosophy.
As a result the dumbed down marking guidelines ill prepared her for the more stringent requirements in high school.
I can't lay all the blame on the education system as parental responsibility
is huge, but certainly there is some measure of blame to be laid at the feet of our education system.
We walk a line when we try to positively
encourage our children. I've always tried to shine a light on the flip side. That
failure is a part of life & not always a bad thing. It's a learning tool & how we react to failure is a measure of how we will live our lives. Maybe the education system can relearn this simple lesson &
help prepare kids to deal with the realities of life. Let them fail, but help to rebuild & learn from it.

Posted by: caranmacil on February 19 2010 2:33 AM

Palopu, i dont know what schools you are talking about but the elementary and high schools my kids go to do fail kids. Just for your info. High school students routinely fail courses and oftenn do not graduate if they cant make them up.
Ben, I would say that the message sent by providing meals in the aboriginal school is worse than you suggest. I think it tells the kids (and the parents) that they need help to feed themselves (or their kids).
As for this not being segregation because anyone can go, get real. Ben is right. This school is aimed at giving aboriginal kids a school of their own, where they can learn a different curriculum, taught in a different way, possibly with different standards. Whats wrong with that you ask? Nothing, except that when they graduate they will be flung into the mix again, and they will not have been taught to adapt to and compete in mainstream Canadian life. Of course they can always go into aboriginal studies in University.....

Posted by: Eagleone on February 19 2010 6:59 AM

I failed grade 1 because I was too busy horsing around (so did Albert Einstein it turns out), but I didn't like doing that grade again when all my friends moved on, so I tried really hard and they put me back in grade 2 after Christmas. Then in grade 3 it was a split grade 2-3 class and I really liked this girl that was in grade 2, so I failed grade 3 on purpose so we could be in the same class the next year (we were roller dome friends lol). My mom went ballistic at the time... I wasn't to concerned though... eventually I got a university gpa of 3.23 while working full time... so its all relative.

Elementary school should be about learning to self learn, more so than just learning to remember stats. Learning to self learn is about wanting to learn and enjoying learning.

I know a lot of good smart people that didn't cut it in the grade school system because they saw it as a waste of time and irrelevant to their future. Most were wrong about that, but a few turned out really well... I have an uncle with grade 10 education that is a very successful tradesmen with at times as many as a 100 guys working under him. Education is a tool and like any tool in the real world its how you use it... not where you learned it or what your marks were. At the end of the day it comes down to competence to get a job done, and that is what matters most, but not necessarily what was 'learned' in school.

I don't agree with a segregated school system, because it removes some kids from the norms of society, which are just as important as the subject matters in the class room. I do however like the idea of providing meals at school so kids can have an equal opportunity to learn with a full stomach.

Posted by: Eagleone on February 19 2010 10:08 AM

Too much info....

Posted by: detoe43 on February 19 2010 10:10 AM

That was funny Eagleone. Even at a young age you showed...uh...Initiative? Your
post illustrates to me what I've always felt about school.While the basics are
super important to survive in our society,
school should be a place where you learn
how to learn. It sounds like that is
something you grasped at a young age. I also have an aquaintance that failed miserably in academics, but was chosen as on of the top machinists in BC a couple of years ago.

Posted by: caranmacil on February 19 2010 2:35 PM

I would like to see schools measure up to the old system a little better. My parents both went to school until the end of grade six. By that time they knew the countries and capitols and could pick them out on the map. They could read and write and SPELL. they had enough math to live their lives with.
Why is it that people cant spell after 12 years? Why do kids need calculators to do simple math? Learning how to learn is a good thing. Maybe the best way to do that is to make kids learn the basics in a timely fashion.