Here is a question for everyone. Who has gotten a raise in the last 2 years other than government workers on all levels?

right on IMO

Here's another question. Who else, apart from government workers has had a legislated denial of pay increases under a multi-year ptogram?

Here's another one. Who else, apart from government workers, have had their pay cut by 15% under an illegitimate government program?

I suspect the answer to IMO's question is senior managers, bankers, corporate executives and Liberal politicians.

Its simple - If you are a government employee and think the bankers are overpaid, then go get a bank job. If you are a banker and think politicians are overpadi, then go be a politician. If you are a private contractor and think the union guys are overpaid, then go get a union job. If you are in a union and think the private... oh you see where Im going...

It has nothing to do with getting a job, it is about counteracting false propoganda. The blaming of unions by a couple of posters on this site is tiresome and absolutely false in its statement and its inferences. In any case, I don't need a job as I amretired. I do still have opinions, though :-)

Food and Beverage Servers who were paid approximately 30.0% more than their provincial counterparts. This statement has me so outraged I can't type fast enough. Over a ten year period 8.oo dollars an hour has never changed in this region. I worked in a gas station in the 90's at 8.00 hr. and that same job is still 8.00hr. The food and beverage service is the same. It's called wage negotiable (NOT)! As for, get an education. I know of a person whom works at a reputable bank teller and is only making 11.00hr. even after being there a year she is taking a second job as a server.
I can't express my feelings no more as I may type something wrong. Just outraged!

Your right hammy when you have an average wage of $11.55 per hour you are on the low end of the totem.

There is not a Government job anywhere in BC that pays $11.55 They would all come in at the high end.

It is pointless to talk about jobs using the **Average Standard** because the high wages tend to up the average.

It would be much better to state exactly how many full time employees receive say $15.00 per hour or less and how many $15.00 , $20.00, $30.00, or more.


There are a huge number of people in this town that earn between $8.00 and $11.00 per hour.

Ammonra: "The blaming of unions by a couple of posters on this site is tiresome and absolutely false in its statement and its inferences."

...in your opinion. It's almost as tiresome to read your constant defenses of anti-union posts.

There's usually three sides to any discussion... There's your side, there's my side and there's the truth.

Well MrPG, why don't you speak the truth right at the beginning? Why constantly post claims you have now said are false?

I do speak the truth... according to me. :)

And so do you...

ammonra don't feed the trolls.

As far as wages go, it seems like nobody wants to start at the bottom anymore. I started at minimum wage, decided that wasn't for me, then decided to get an education and a decent job.

Nowadays, it seems that people (and especially young people) want to start at $30.00 / hr. It doesn't work that way. Gotta love the entitlement generation.

Seamutt, don't you have a climategate/globull warming post to make?

hey Intersepter,it hard to just pick up and get a new or better job when there is 15% of the population on EI with another 3-5%unemployed that are not on EI.

As far as wages go, it seems like nobody wants to start at the bottom anymore. I started at minimum wage, decided that wasn't for me, then decided to get an education and a decent job. Well Mr. PG glad you had daddy or mommy to pay for that sweet education, or some inheritance. I've struggled ALL MY LIFE, even before mill jobs with a union were around. Lets see, my kids can no longer see a dentist, and well don't get sick because I can't afford the outrageous price of inhalers or meds. I could never handle a car payment again. As far as education goes WHO CAN AFFORD THAT without going bankrupt. It's 300 bucks just for a forklift ticket. Hell you even have to pay for a 35$ serving it right ticket before you can get a job in the service industry.Somebody has to pay the bills. I was a bottom wage earner 30 years ago, have gone full circle to back to a bottom wage earner making 3 dollars more than 5. Hell I've never seen 30 bucks an hour,and sure as hell probable never will. I'm damn sure I could out work and out play anyone who's supposedly EDUCATED!

"Well Mr. PG glad you had daddy or mommy to pay for that sweet education, or some inheritance. "

Nice assumption, but completely wrong. I worked the summers and got a loan for the rest. It's easy to sit and say "life's unfair!", but it's a lot harder to get off the couch and do something about it.

Too many are like you and would rather whine than take personal responsibility and do something about it.

hammy you make some good points, but you also make some large assumptions about people who go to school, namely that they get everything handed to them. Sure in some cases that's true, but in others, it's completely false.

There are loads of people out there who worked their butts off to put themselves through school and made short-term sacrifices in order to provide themselves with a long-term payoff. It's ridiculous to paint these people as though they were handed everything they have or that their mommy and daddy paid for it.

Just take a walk around CNC or UNBC and look at the student base. There are loads of people there who are up to their gills in student debt so that they will have a better future. Many of these folks are also mature students, single parents or people on 2nd or 3rd careers. Can everybody do it? No of course not. But there are allot more people out there that could do it if they made the choice and put their mind to it. One of the main problems with doing it is that it's a lot of hard work. Like you said, we live in a society where nobody wants to start at the bottom and that includes people who don't want to "start over" when their situation dictates that is what may be necessary to get back ahead.

If every one went to school and got an education, and then went on to University, all we would end up with would be a lot of people with high grade education, working for the minimum wage.

There are not enough good jobs in this Country for everyone, so the people who manage to get one, especially those who get into the Civil Service, are very fortunate indeed. High wages, good benefits, holidays, sick pay, great pensions.

Not everyone has that opportunity, so the least we can do is recognize that those that have are very lucky indeed.

The cost of living in this Country is the same for a Government worker, or a service industry worker. The problem is the Government worker makes $60,000.00 per year plus benefits, while the service worker gets $20/25000.00 plus no benefits.

Obviously the system is screwed up. Why in hell are the workers, who pay the Civil Service being paid less than those who work for them?? Mainly because Union Jobs, and Government Jobs, seem to get raises every year over a long period of time, and those on the lower end of the totem get diddly squat.

Jobs and pay at one time were in direct correlation to your responsibilitys. Now someone off the street can go into a Union Government Job and get a high wages and benefits handed to them on a platter. Quite often they do not do anything more than stamp paper, send out the mail, and answer the phone.

Most people to-day, especially those in high end jobs, with some exceptions, are overpaid and underworked. For them to sit in judgement of those who work harder, longer hours for less money is ludicrous.

Look at your School Boards , Municipal, Regional, Provincial Governments, Universitys, Health Services, and you will see that the majority of the tax dollars in their budgets go to pay Salaries, and Benefits.

Its pretty obvious where the problem is.

Well folks (Palopu included), here are two great places to start for all of you looking for those huge salary, "no qualifications required", "gold plated" government jobs.

http://jobs-emplois.gc.ca/index-eng.htm

http://www.employment.gov.bc.ca/index.php?rLoad=1

You may also want to check the websites for the Health Authorities, other Provinces, RCMP, etc. I'm sure they too will have loads of $60,000+ a year jobs that are nothing more than clerical support.

Be sure to post back on one of the upcoming Friday Free for All's and let us know how you are making out. Best of luck with your new "no responsibility" and "overpaid" career!

"Not everyone has that opportunity, so the least we can do is recognize that those that have are very lucky indeed."

The more effort you put in and the harder you work, the luckier you'll be.

Nice try MrPG. This Country was built on the backs of hard working Canadians, not a bunch of pencil pushing, brainys who came after the hard work was done, and stayed to reap the profits.

I suspect that the hardest work you ever did was to roll back your bed covers.

Have a nice day.

"This Country was built on the backs of hard working Canadians, not a bunch of pencil pushing, brainys who came after the hard work was done, and stayed to reap the profits"

So which group do you fall into Palopu? Were you the fur trader or the accountant who was responsible for keeping track of the riches and returning them to the Queen?

Mr PG. The fur trader, and the Natives sold their furs to the Hudson Bay Co., or the Northwest Co., All these people were hard working.

I suspect the person who kept the books, also hunted for food, cut wood, packed water, worked a garden, etc;etc; etc;. The book keeping was a small part of his job.

To-day the book keeper stares into a computer and pushes buttons, while he drinks a cup of coffee (which he obtained on company time) and complains about how he is overworked and underpaid. About as far from reality as he can get.

I actually fall into both catagories and can earn a living either way, or run my own business. I knew what a callous was at a very early age, and hard work was just a part of growing up.

There are many people in this Country that work hard every day at jobs that would put the average (Educated Canadian) in traction if they tried to do it. Someone has to do the hard work, and therefore you should be grateful that it is not you. I am certainly grateful it is not me.

I have no problem paying hard working people a good wage, however I balk at paying Civil Servants, and some Union people extremely high wages to sit on their asses and do nothing. Nor am I overly fond of some business people who make their living off the backs of people, and then stand around with their pigeon chests pushed out, pretending that they have made some sort of contribution to mankind.

Palopu, you are either truly ignorant (and I mean that in the literal definition of the word) about the types of jobs people do and what is required of them to do those jobs, or you are the most jaded and cynical person in Prince George. Either way, this most recent post of yours does nothing but to cast doubt on your ability to form a reasoned opinion on the subject being discussed.

You think the average nurse sits on their ass for their 12 hour shift? What about your average guy controlling the border? Our soldiers, you think they are lazy? Crown prosecutors, you think they spend their days golfing instead of working cases? Your position is actually staggering in its inaccuracy!

Now, for every hard working person doing a physically demanding job, there are also people doing jobs that require a high level of intellect and education. They are all required to keep our society functioning and they are also needed in the public and private sectors. Obviously we also need to pay these people and we have to pay them at a level that will attract them to the jobs.

Oh by the way, have you checked out any of the government jobs on the links I posted? See anything you are going to apply for or do you have to head back to school to upgrade your qualifications first? Are the wages good enough for you? I know many of them don't pay the $60K you proclaim they do, but you have to start somewhere I suppose.

NMG, I like a lot of what palopu has to say, but as you've pointed out sometimes he is off in left field.

No palopu, I don't dig ditches or fall trees or whatever it is you consider to be 'real work'. The economy requires more than physical labourers to move along.

I'll write off your posts in this thread as you having a bad day. You're clearly off the mark.

Palopu: "I suspect that the hardest work you ever did was to roll back your bed covers."

For what it's worth, you're wrong again. I spent many summers working in the forest industry in the great outdoors. And suffice it to say that I wasn't pushing pencils out there.

On a side note - how many people complain about how the "system is holding them down" and yet have made thier own luck... I know two people that complain about thier employment status and yet thier background shows a small drug possession charge, or perhaps they left two or three jobs because they couldnt get never along with the boss. He was always a jerk... blah blah. Never your fault of course. Guess what? Sometimes you have to look at the lowest common denominator...

As usual when I talk about Government workers in General people bring in Nurses, Police, Soldiers, etc; to prop up their case. Soldiers actually get diddlly squat for wages.

I am talking about the group of Government workers who do next to nothing each day. Drive around in Government vehicles pretending to do work, and going golfing in the early afternoon while still on the payroll. Or workers who stamp paper, and mail out letters, but because of the Union they get the high level of pay and benefits, even though a trained monkey could do thier jobs.

People who go to work at 9 with a Tim Hortons in their hands, take a half hour to get organized, and then break for coffee, then get re organized and go for lunch. If you care to keep you eyes open, you can see these people all over the place. They may be in Federal Government offices, Provincial, or Municipal, but rest assured they are all around you.

Some Union jobs are the same, some people rarely do any work, and if they do it is under protest. I know of individuals who went from Private Enterprise to working for the City who were told specifically to slow down, not work so hard. Safe it for another day seemed to be the mantra.

So we certainly have a mix. However my point it that Union and Government workers are protected by their Unions and get raises on a regular basis, which is not based on anything other than the fact they negotiated it.

Other people who are not fortunate enough to have this Union protection generally get it in the ear.

City of Prince George recent job postings

Billings Clerk 27.34 hour ($56,867.00 year)

Bylaw Enforcement Officer $57,288.00 year

Custodian $55,577.60 year.

Have a nice day.

"I am talking about the group of Government workers who do next to nothing each day."

In your infinite wisdom, what percentage of workers fall into this category? Yes, in every workplace there are slackers. Hardly a revelation.

As for those professions you noted above, what would be a fair wage in your eyes? Please enlighten us.