GOODMORNING ALL! HAVE A GREAT DAY,SPRING IS IN THE AIR..OH! it's just dust!!

A few milligrams of some rare earth minerals will send you running [url=http://personalmoneystore.com/Payday-Loans/ for payday loans[/url], easily. Rare earth minerals derive from the 14 rare earth elements, heavier minerals that occupy numbers 57 to 71 on the periodic table, and they are often used for industrial and technology purposes.

Wow that’s deep. I’ll be busy thinking about that till next pay day for sure. But if I think it right people should stay off the "Lanthanum Series". Or stay on them if the voices in your head tell you to. Have a good weekend!

WOW! and all I said was have a great day!! (tap...tap...tap) hellow! ,hellow! anyone out there!

Good to see the Liberals have added more cost to private sale of automobiles. GST was not charged on private sales but now the Liberals on pg 80 of the budget are going to scoop an extra 5% into the coffers. Cuts to senior living allowances, cut medical aid to the poor and Coleman's excuse is to many people are using the services so the cuts were necessary, the HST, and the fiasco with a read my lips deficit at election time. Good thing this merry band of bandits was not in power during the French revolution or the guillotine might have been put to good use.

In any event, nice to see the roads being swept.

HST meeting at the University tonight. Please attend.

We're going to have real trouble in the future over the division of revenues brought in from the HST if we're unsuccessful in our efforts to derail that tax through the Petition process.

Just look at what's already happening with the scenario outlined by Resident above.

How long will a cash starved Federal government allow the Province to scoop any of the GST portion of the new tax that it doesn't already exact?

If it's going to be blamed for collecting GST on private sales of autos, etc., you can rest assured the Feds will want to keep the new found take. And likely a whole lot more.

You might be thinking that the HST won't make much difference to you individually. And in some cases maybe it won't. But what it's going to spawn, the FURTHER taxes that will follow it, will be.

If ever there was a time to say "NO", now is it. Sign the upcoming Vander Zalm Petition, and give the process all the support you can. It might be the last chance we have before all legal opportunity to derail the gravy train of governmental takings is lost.

And then there is the tax added if you sell your OLD vehicle. A vehicle that was taxed when bought new. Double dipping is wrong. Any more sheeple WAKING UP YET?

Anyone else noticing that the people all these new taxes are going to enable is the poor, sick and old? I am ashamed. I am awake Municca and will be at the HST meeting tonight.

Anyone want to take bets on a late snowfall so that we can sand and salt over our freshly swept streets... :-)

I admire the initiative of many to try and de-rail the HST, but I don't think it will happen. Too many apathetic people out there.

We all want the government to provide great things like services and healthcare and infrastructure and the money has to come from somewhere. Just wait until the baby boomers start retiring en masse, that will be interesting.

The lack of kids and young families in Prince George is an indicator of things to come. Fewer working taxpayers and demand for services skyrocketing. Where will the money come from?

The problem is that this part is not happening anymore.

"We all want the government to provide great things like services and healthcare and infrastructure"

Government is to big on all levels. Most of the money is being eaten up by high wages and administration. Very little is getting down to anything that may benifit US. The more they get the more they spend and next year the deficit will be larger and less will go towards "great things".

Go down to one of the social places for the elderly and talk to them. Most of them are in a state of panic and are wonder what they worked so hard for all their lives. They are very scared and I for one cry every time I think about them. It is the worst thing ever done to the elderly. All these new taxes target them the most. They are getting it from all sides and yet their money coming in has not changed. It is sick I tell you. Please stop the madness.

Good morning everyone. I wish you all a pleasant weekend.

For you MrPG, I wish you the same, but I would like to remind you, that the Government DOES NOT HAVE ANY MONEY! The money they have, belongs to us, the tax payers. We have entrusted the "Elected Government" to spend our money wisely. They have not! They have, for the most part, STOLEN from us. For the most part, most of them belong in PRISON. If you or I were to rob our fellow citizens like these thugs have, we would certainly spend a good amount of time behind BARS.

Wake up already! These thugs work for US, best we start giving these parasites some direction!

Once more MrPG, just in case you have forgotten already, THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO MONEY PERIOD. It is our money!

"revenue neutral"
If it is going to cost me more, that is not revenue neutral.

If I get fewer services for the same dollar, that is not revenue neutral.

Has anyone ever seen a truly revenue neutral tax restructuring?

"Double dipping is wrong. Any more sheeple WAKING UP YET?"

Take a look at the direction of the complaints on this board and reconsider just who the sheeple are.

Born in BC, good comment!

taxi, you can get mad at me if you want, I am well aware of where the money comes from. I see it on my pay stub and on every receipt of everything I buy.

But the fact remains that the government provides services which we demand, and there isn't enough taxpayer money to go around. I repeat, the government is broke and the money has to come from somewhere.

Acting like a bunch of three year olds isn't going to change the situation.

There are a number of difficulties with the HST. The first problem is that this government was elected on a mandate of NOT bringing it in. The reason this is being implmented is that the federal government is giving $1.6 billion to the Liberals over two years in order to implement it-this hides the huge deficit this year and next (the Liberals claim that there will be a $2.7 billion deficit-it would be a billion more without the federal contribution).

As well, the Liberals have announced that the money they take in on the HST will be less than that taken by the PST. We will pay more in direct taxes, and the government will have fewer dollars to spend on services.

This is a tax shift, pure and simple. Most businesses love it, of course, (unless they belong to a service industry). We will pay new taxes, businesses will pay less taxes. The government is doing everything they can to convince us to go along-the latest being the the notion that all HST funds collected will go to health care. When this was announced inthe media scrum before the budget was brought down, the media actually laughed out loud. All monies collected now go into one big pot and go to pay for government services-this notion is an attempt to convince people that therre is going to be a massive change in health care funding. Remember, too, that the government will get less money now from the HST than from the PST.

Is the HST good policy? I can't say. But the ways in which it is being forced down our throats is completely against the democratic system. This tax change needs our consent-we can give that consent by doing nothing.

My point exactly MrPG!

And if they were to stop there wasteful spending during these hard economic times, things would be a lot brighter for the working stiff. Giving themselves numerous raises, while the rest of the wage payers for them suffer with lay offs and cut backs???? Come on, give me a damn break!! The list of useless spending would take up all the gigbites(sp) and more that I have.

This is not a democracy MrPG. this is criminal activity at it's finest. Because????? These morons are at the top of the food chain, so they think. Look at the whole screen MrPG, not just what suites your life style!

"in this world, nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes"
Benjamin Franklin, 1789.
To wit; get used to it, the hst and any other tax that a government wants or needs to foist upon us will be foisted. We can beller and moan, and we will, but it will
do no good. In the end they will still tax us. We have been told before "no new taxes" (Glen Clark) well, all that came from that was everything they do for us now has a fee attached to it. Government services (sounds like an oxymoron) that went for a fee before now go for a higher fee. They do that AND cut services such as and now they want to eliminate a lot of government jobs, so less service available to us. Hold on to your hats and save your empties for the deposit, she's gonna blow.
metalman.

Mr. PG There are a few of us thinking. Thanks
Governments worldwide are struggling with this same problem. Whether it be Liberal, Conservative, NDP, Republican, Democrat, Socialist or Communist. This world recession has affected all parts of the globe. Many of you will blame your own despised politician but it does not change the reality. We can not continue like this and will have to get our house in order. The tough thing to do is to cut spending and services. There is no other way. Beware the man or woman who promises you everything.
For example in Greece the Socialist Government has run out of money. The rest of the European Union is just about bankrupt and won't lend Greece any money. The government has had to drastically cut services and now the citizens are rioting. Is not that like both parents losing their jobs and the kids demanding that they carry on as normal?
The US has huge money problems with Trillions of dollars in debt, crumbling infrastructure and citizens with a perverse sense of entitlement demanding more. There is only one taxpayer, and it is you. Bills have to be paid and it can only mean more taxes and less services. That is the reality. Get used to it.
For all of you rabid anti HST and Gordo fans are you so naive to believe that the government has to collect the money from somewhere? If they don't get the HST it has to come from increased taxes and less services.
And beware the party who screams about decreased funding for everything because it will be your money they will be spending.

"This is not a democracy MrPG. this is criminal activity at it's finest. "

Isn't that what they always say whenever government brings in an unpopular initiative? Governments at all levels have been pretty unpopular for a long time now, I don't see that changing, no matter who we elect.

Costs skyrocketing, fewer taxpayers to spread the pain around. Something's gotta give at some point.

Let's face it, most of you hate taxes. But it's a necessary evil. I love the comments that Government wastes money. Sure it's not the most efficient and there is some waste. But for the most part it is a good system.

The complainers out there think that because it's not perfect we should scrap the whole thing. Let me tell you, there is no better system sitting on a shelf somewhere waiting to be used.

Vote out the Provincial Liberals......ok, then who is there to step into their place? The other parties out there don't seem to be very organized. So I doubt it would be much better, it could even be a lot worse.

I take a look at where the money does come from for the Province to run, it seems it used to come primarily from Income Tax in the 90's. I look at my tax return back then and the amount of Provincial income tax was a lot higher than it is now. So I doubt Govt was able to magically offer the same services with less money so where does the money come from? Well, HST is the obvious answer.

The biggest problem that I have about HST is it seems we are bending over backwards to have the best corporate climate in the world. How many greedy corporations are going to be responsible and give back to the Province........not to many I'm afraid. I think they are going to pocket a nice big bonus and retire in the Bahamas or Caman Islands. So what does that do for BC in the end. Shift wealth outside of the country. GREAT!!

I am done trying to change things or feel sorry for the underdog. I do not like government anymore than anyone else but it is what it is. I have tried waking people up and all I get in return is chit and abuse. I have a job, a good wage and I can afford what the government is doing. So be it. Live with your heads in the sand and chalk it all up to we need services and it costs money. Do not look at all the corruption and gluttony in government. I care less any longer. It will break soon enough. I will take care of my elderly father and pray for the rest of the poor, elderly and sick.
Happy Friday to all.

So, Caring, if I read you right, because some people have a different take on this matter than you, you're going to take your ball and go home?

Bye bye.

Yep, that is totally it MrPG! I care nothing about playing with people who do not care for others. bye bye

MrPG, what was that comment all about? I thought for a moment on this new and improved Free-For-All-Friday, you would be not necessarily improved, but new all the same. That was an uncalled for comment you made to CaringSoul.

This is a site, where everybody has a chance to post their opinion, not just read yours. Your oppinions seem to be very politically slanted! So, I think MrPG, you should take your ball and go home. If you can't play fair in the school yard little boy, you shall stand in the corner and think about your dreadful ways!

Actually, charles pasted a good article in the HST thread, "Civil service: Too many jobs, too little service". Good read and good place to start if we really want to tackle the problem.

Just another comment from someone who has his 'head buried in the sand'. lol.

Actually taxi, it's funny how people can get mad, and slag me and my opinions and when I even respond in any way, I read comments like yours.

Anyway, I don't care what anyone says about me or my views. I would hope that people have a thicker skin when they post on this site.

Nothing will ever be solved in the comments section here, but it's a good way to get your feelings out there!

Have a good day.

Kelli Steer innkeeper at the Coast Inn of the North and her husband Brian welcomed a new baby girl today!!! The new baby weights 7 pounds and 13 ounces.

Congratulations to the Steer family.

Here's an idea. BC has gone from planting over 260 million trees in 1996, to close to half of that this year. Ignoring the fact that we could and should be planting more here, it leaves a whole lot of slack in an excellent system of reforestation that we have developed. If we decided to grow an extra 50 million trees a year and sent those trees to Haiti, we could replant 20% of Haiti in 10 years.
Apart from donations, this could be partially self-financing through carbon credits that would be generated. This is just a germ of an idea, any constructive comments/criticism welcomed.

Kelli Steer innkeeper at the Coast Inn of the North and her husband Brian welcomed a new baby girl today!!! The new baby weights 7 pounds and 13 ounces.

Congratulations to the Steer family.

WOW MrPG, HaHa, tough crowd this morning :)

I'm a small businessman, I support the HST.

Call me selfish, It doesnt matter, its good for business, therefor good for me.

We have what they call an "underground economy". This HST grab will make the said underground economy "new and improved". Just like soap. However, IMO, after all the moaning and groaning and gnashing of teeth this HST will be foisted on us. And still people will smoke heavily taxed cigarettes, fill up the casinoes, line up fer lottery tickets and fill their shopping carts with liquor. And life will go on as it always has. I will get back to you on this in August. Cheers.

Speaking of taxes in the land of government grants,UNBC,the brainwased kiddies are bitchin about bottled water. The poor little souls. What is wrong with me wanting to buy a cold bottle of water instead of a pop or whatever. There is not exactly abundant sources of cold water available once you leave home. So if no bottled water is available I will be forced to buy something with calories.

Know look in a cooler, just about everything inside is in plastic, even the insides of aluminum cans are lined with plastic. Yes I do have an Suzuki approved water bottle but do not always have it with me and anyhow the water warms up.

I just want a cold drink of water, when ever.

Hey did anyone hear that Kelli Steer had a baby?

My wife and I spent 3.5 hours in emergency before being seen by a doctor last week due to a surgical complication - so we weren't wasting anyone's time being there. As I sat there, I thought, wouldn't it be great if I could just pay someone $100.00 and get looked at in say half an hour. But of course I can't - unless I lived in Vancouver where they have private emergency rooms.

I'm fortunate to have a good income and my time actually is worth a lot of money. There are many others like me. The fact is if they'd let us pay for private emergency care, and took some of that money to fund the underfunded public emergency care - we'd all be better off. But alas, I live in Canada where everyone get's to suffer equally rather than some benefit a more, and some slightly more.

OMG.....

Kelli Steer had a baby? No way!

I did NOT know that!

Ha ha ha ha... just kidding of course.

Congrats to her and her family.

"I just want a cold drink of water, when ever."

Brings back the days when there were drinking fountains all over the place. A rare find these days and those that are available usually do not have enough pressure.

Remember the time there were no automats in schools? I do.... :-)

I love water from Fiji .... helps suport their economy, the shipping industry, the oil business ..... and produces more and more of those little CO2 molecules floating in the air ....

She HAD a baby? What happened to it? Did someone kidnap it?

ski50 - at 40something percent of our budget I suggest that health care is grossly over-funded and inefficient.

Pat Bell must have developed a thin skin recently. Notice how his "top ten" submitted article does not allow comments. AKA "propaganda".

Hey rayban,I agree but it doesn't make my butt feel any better camping out at ER. I can't do anything about the admin heavy Northern Health so at least let me pay :)

In my opinion Pat Bell hasn't had an independent thought of his own since Campbell fired Paul Nettleton...His whole party is scared to death of the same thing happening to them...maybe they should all say bye bye Campbell ya criminal and start over....

tongue in cheek....
I wonder if all this bad air is from all them airpanes cirling our fair city waiting to land on our new and soooooooo busy runway.....

Baby Steer still has no first name....will keep everyone posted on this delightful event.

Its easy to say that Governments need money to provide services, and then not to give any detail as to what these services might be. As an example is Health care for the most part paid for by Federal Government Transfers to Provinces.

The Coquihalla Highway was built by assessing a toll.

The Various Airports in Canada are funded by an Airport Improvement Fee, and therefore paid for by people who fly.

The BC Liquor Control Board is funded by the people who drink and the excess cash goes to Government.

The Gambling Revenue goes to the Government and then is dispersed to cover some charitys, and some health costs.

BC Hydro is funded by people who use the service, and makes millions by selling this power to the good old USA.

Conservation is paid for at least in part by the cost of licences etc;

ICBC is paid for by people who buy insurance, and just recently transferred $780 Million to the Provincial Government.

Worksafe BC is paid for by individuals and Corporations.

Employment Insurance is paid for by workers and Corporations. The Government (Federal Liberals) recently transferred $46 Billion into general revenue.

I could go on, but you get my drift.

What Government services are we getting that we havent already paid for through users fees, other than Highways, and Transit???

I suspect most of the money goes to Salaries and Benefits.

However I could be wrong and Im sure that Mr PG will elucidate.

Did the Cougars make the playoffs yet?

"What Government services are we getting that we havent already paid for through users fees, other than Highways, and Transit"

Well, here are just some of the Federal ones:

- National Defence and Armed Forces
- Department of Justice
- Corrections Canada
- Parks Canada
- Health Canada
- Bank of Canada
- Canada Revenue Agency
- Fisheries and Oceans
- Coast Guard
- Canadian Security and Intelligence Service
- Canadian Space Agency
- Elections Canada
- Canada Post
- Environment Canada
- Federal Court System
- Royal Canadian Mint
- Office of the Auditor General
- Statistics Canada
- Transport Canada
- Veterans Affairs
- Customs and Border Services

And some of the Provincial Ministries:

- Education
- Finance
- Forests and Range
- Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources
- Environment
- Tourism, Culture and the Arts
- Housing and Social Development
- Children and Family Development

In short, tax dollars play a rather significant role in making Canada one of the best countries in the world in which to live. As for your statement that most of the money goes to salaries and wages, where else could it go? I suppose there would be some capital expenditures and of course operating costs througout the year for the various departments, but the last time I checked, we still do need people to do the work. I don't think we've created robots for that yet.

Who is Kelli Steer? Congratulations on the new baby!

Mr. PG wrote:-"We all want the government to provide great things like services and healthcare and infrastructure and the money has to come from somewhere. Just wait until the baby boomers start retiring en masse, that will be interesting.

The lack of kids and young families in Prince George is an indicator of things to come. Fewer working taxpayers and demand for services skyrocketing. Where will the money come from?"
----------------------------------------
It'll come from where it's always come from, Mr. PG. The Banks. Which are those institutions that actually , as the first Governor of the Bank of Canada, Graham Towers, once told a Parliamentary Committee on Banking, "...make 'money' just as a steel mill makes steel."

Every time any Bank spends or lends it is creating 'money'. Loans create deposits, as does all Bank spending, whether it's to buy securities of any kind, or to meet their ongoing operating expenses, or for any other reason.

The system is "creditary". And there's nothing wrong in that. If it weren't "creditary", our actual 'progress' would have been greatly retarded in all the real advancements we've made in the last 500 years.

But what is lent or spent today through the banking system is done so in anticipation of a 'greater return' from that lending or spending tomorrow. The system is 'dynamic', not 'static'. Money not only 'flows', it IS a "flow". And as long as that 'greater return' materialises, the lending and spending that enable it can continue, ad infinitum.

And there's nothing wrong in that either. None of us willingly do anything that is not, in some way, 'profitable' to us. Why would we?

Our problem today, however, is NOT the one identified by Palopu above ~ primarally that the Government pays too much to its hired help for salaries and benefits. It's not that Palopu is entirely wrong, it often undoubtedly does. I certainly won't argue that it doesn't. That, however, is but the tip of the iceberg.

If we could cut those wages and salaries to the bone, or even eliminate them altogether, the "real" problem would hardly be touched at all. And may, in actuality, even be worsened. That's without other changes being implemented too.

The "real" problem is that that expected "greater return", so necessary for the process of Bank lending and spending to continue, is NOT, in the economy as a whole, materialising.

It can't, so long as there is ongoing "labour displacement" continually occuring, and "incomes" are still mostly arising from wages and salaries.

In that case, which is where we are now, OVERALL "incomes" are FALLING in ratio to the OVERALL "costs of production" ('money' that has arisen from Bank loans)that are continually coming forward in "prices" (and "taxes".)

In business accounting, the Principal of every Bank loan made to Firms is amortised from 'profit'. But if "incomes" are falling, spending from those incomes will also be falling, and with it a FALL in the general rate of 'profit', as what has been made, or could be made, cannot entirely sell for want of 'money'.

When a sufficient number of existing loans can not be repaid, the Banking system 'chokes off' further lending. And this sends the whole economy into the kind of malaise we are now witnessing.

The "real" problem is NOT that we pay some too much. It's that 'money' itself, in its totality, is chronically insuffient to fully liquidate "prices" when that 'money', to those who would consume what they, and others would produce, comes from wages and salaries alone.

We need a way to "augment" earned incomes. And by applying the principles used in double-entry cost accountancy ~ the accounting used by EVERY private business throughout the whole economy ~ to the government and economy as a whole that source of 'money' would become readily apparent.

For all 'money' is based on THE CAPACITY TO PRODUCE ) actual, useful, goods and services) And we have a far, far greater actual capacity to PRODUCE just about everything in this country (and province), than we ever have to Consume it. "Monetise" that capacity. And the supposed need for things like the HST, and the majority of modern government's obscene and ever larger takings will disappear.

Lets have a proper NATIONAL (and Provincial) BALANCE SHEET. Showing total national Assets, Liabilities AND CAPITAL. Lets see where all the things we pay for, but still always seem to 'owe' on, show up as Assets and Citizen's Equity.

Equity, that in any properly run business would be growing as the Assets grow, if the Firm is run properly, and would pay a 'dividend'' periodically to the "shareholders" as it does.

Think about it in a way you haven't thought about it before. Why does the "government" now supposedly have to provide all the services that our forefathers were quite able to provide for themselves? Could it be because too many now lack the 'money'? Well, if it is, will 're-distributing' something that's 'insufficient' through taxaes like the HST make it 'sufficent'? Long-term? In a pig's-eye it will!

Good to see that Mr. Hamburger has posted his list. Notice it is in bold type and no chance for comments. Is he real or just a ghost writer?

NMG wrote:-"As for your statement that most of the money goes to salaries and wages, where else could it go? I suppose there would be some capital expenditures and of course operating costs througout the year for the various departments,"
------------------------------------------
If it ALL went to 'salaries and wages' there really wouldn't be any problem. Not with it going there, I mean, not whether those receiving it are actually giving us our "money's worth". Which they may, or may not, be.

Salaries and wages are "effective demand" for goods and services. Both government provided ones, and ones that are, to a far larger extent, provided by the private sector.

They represent money that has been 'costed' into the 'price' of those goods and services, with 'taxes' being analogous to 'price' for services provided by the public sector.

A moment's consideration would reveal that in such a scenario "costs" and "prices" are one and the same in amount, and the economy would be (relatively speaking) fully financially "self-liquidating" as what was spent in "costs" is recovered in "price" (or "taxes").

Money, in such a situation would "rise with Production" , as the Banks create it as "costs", and "fall with Consumption", as the Bank's creation returns to it (and oblivion)through " prices" as what's been produced or provided is consumed.

Because the process is ongoing, or dynamic, we often lose sight of the fact that while a sum of 'money' may circulate, and in that process transfer many goods from hand to hand, it can only liquidate ONE set of "costs", those being equal to itself. Loans create deposits, the repayment of those loans destroys those deposits.

In a modern, industrial economy, NOT ALL "costs" are CURRENT 'Labour' costs. Many, and an ever increasing many, are what we call 'Capital' costs. These 'costs' are PAST 'Labour' costs, and represent, to a large measure 'money' which has, for various reasons, returned to the Banks (and oblivion) BEFORE the "costs" (and "prices") it created on its journey FROM the Bank through the costing system of industry or government have been fully liquidated.

This creates a disparity between "prices" of goods and services for sale, and "incomes" still available in the hands of the public to meet those prices.

The disparity is made up through various ways, but mainly through increasing debt, so long as it CAN BE INCREASED. (This is becoming increasingly more difficult to do).

When the 'floating' debts of the private sector can not be fully repaid, (when the general rate of business profit falls, from reasons previously explained), the government moves to convert it to the "fixed" debt of the public sector.

This is occuring now, as we see ongoing efforts at stimulus spending to inject needed new 'money' into the economy. This will only result in higher and higher taxes in the future, until there will most certainly be a catastrophic collapse, and quite likely a very undesirable social outcome.

Allowing taxes like the HST, Carbon Taxes, and all the other takings that Governments are increasingly removing from us is simply accentuating the problem.

If Government were to truly compare itself to a private business (which it should), it would do its books in much the same way every private business does their's. In that instance, it would be revealed that we are being literally robbed blind to pay tribute to a Banking system that has sown the seeds of its own destruction. Unfortunately, OUR destruction will quite likely accompany that. Which, on both counts, is completely unnecessary, if only we would move to make the needed changes. Stopping the HST by Petition would be a very good first step.