I will be there!!! I will also canvess my ass off to get as many signatures as I can.

This should be about people standing up for democracy.

We were lied to last election and once in power only months after a multi billion dollar tax responsibility transfer agenda is started that will transfer more taxation dollars from corporations to citizens than at any other time in our provincial history.

The democratic process was ignored to make this happen and if it is allowed precedence our democracy is effectively dead. If the BC liberals can do it today, than what is to stop the ndp or some other radical group from getting elected on lies and then implementing further scary policies on this province from a hidden agenda after the election through undemocratic processes worked out in the shadows of corporate or communist board rooms?

Nobody and no policy or law is safe if we no longer follow a democratic process.

I wish I could be there, but I can't get the time off work. I hope people take it from the stand point of the threat to our democratic process that HST represents more so than just an us verse them tax debate.

The tax issue is secondary to the violation of process from my point of view.

Even as a secondary issue the idea of a $1.9 billion dollar tax transfer from corporations to citizens is a serious issue on its own, but nothing trumps the sanctity of the democratic process and we need to make that clear to all politicians and all political parties... and this is the best opportunity people will have of doing just that. I will sign the petition and encourage everyone I know to do so as well.

An economy that isn't democratic at its basis is nothing but a rotting society that will impoverish all in time in the name of efficiencies for those that have access to power. Time will tell.

The following is taken from an article written on March 10, 2010 entitled "Civil service: Too many jobs, too little service".

In February, Statistics Canada reported that public-sector employment increased 0.5 per cent in the final quarter of 2009. This may not seem excessive. But it was enough, year over year, to bump the number of Canadians who work for government to 3,650,000 from 3,350,000 - a public-sector infusion of another 300,000 people.

Canada has a labour force of 16.9 million workers - and a public sector that requires the full-time services of more than one in five of them. At the end of 2008, the public sector needed to employ 19.1 per cent of the work force; at the end of 2009, 21.1 per cent. Local governments were the most aggressive last year - expanding staff by 3.2 per cent. Did anyone in the country detect any improvement in efficiency at City Hall? Did anyone observe any gain either in productivity or in performance?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/civil-service-too-many-jobs-too-little-service/article1495774/

The following are some statistics from the labour force survey (for February) which Statistics Canada released this morning.

Canada had a net gain of 20,900 jobs in February. The public sector added 45,600 jobs. The private sector lost 7,500 jobs, and the self-employed lost 17,200 jobs.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/subjects-sujets/labour-travail/lfs-epa/t100312a2-eng.htm

HST, is a non issue. The deal is done. Vander Zalm is just trying to grab a little lime lite in his twilight years.

The bribe money has already been spent. so we can't back out of it. Gordon Campbell made the deal, he will get the tax in, take the heat, then announce his retirement. a done deal.

Good post charles...very good!
And He spoke...you may well be right, but Campbell IS going to feel the full wrath of B.C. taxpayers.
It is not going to be as easy as he thinks.
We can already see the "feel good" spin starting to try and deflect peoples attention away from the HST.
Pat Bell's article on here today is the start of it.
There is a line, and the lying B.C.Liberals have crossed it one too many times.
People like Gordon Campbell and his band of elected thieves think we are sheep and are betting we will not stand up for ourselves.
We don't have a choice this time.
While that may have been true to a certain extent in the past,this time, it will be different.

He Spoke. The HST is certainly a non-issue if everyone thought like you do. Hopefully they dont.

People can get out and get this petition signed. After that they force the Liberals to make some hard decisions ie; kill the bill in the legislature (which would be political suicide) or go to a referendum, which if passed would force them to recind the legislation.

This issue is far from being done, however it requires people to make an effort.

There is no glory in rolling over and playing dead, which is what they want you to do.

Go to the meeting, be a volunteer canvasser, and get something done. Even if it fails, at least you made an effort.

If you do nothing, they win hands down.

Well said my dear Palopu, well said!

Interesting post charles. I'd like to see the breakdown of where all of these people are employed. Based on info found on the website for the Privy Council of Canada, the feds only employ 260,000 people nationwide. I'm sure the Province of BC employs a fair number as well, but let's be honest, yours and my tax dollars DO NOT fund the vast majority of the 3.7 million jobs you speak of. Our taxes fund would the jobs for the feds (shared amongst all Canadians) and the province of BC (directly paid by us). It's a complete red herring to complain about ALL of the jobs as though you have a financial stake in them, because you don't. Cry about the feds and province all you want, but what Nova Scotia or the city of Halifax does, with the taxes paid by their residents, I could care less.

You also seem to be conveniently ignoring the realities of our demographics. Rest assured that within 5-10 years the number of public servants will be down to what you deem to be an acceptable level. Actually, it's more than likely that the numbers will be much lower than what you think they should be. Such is life when you have a huge percentage of the existing workforce ready to retire and not enough people around to replace them.

When that happens, and it will, just don't reverse your stance and start complaining about the fact that the services you've come to expect have dropped to levels that have never been seen or probably even dreamt of. That would just be hypocritical and well, rather annoying :)

I think the point Charles was trying to make was that you need private sector jobs being created in order to pay for the public sector jobs, and the reverse seems to be happening. I'm not sure he was concerned about service levels? From a national perspective I would think the stats Charles cites are very valid in assessing the true health of our economy.

Again, in specific terms, where were the public sector jobs created? Were there new jobs created at HRDC to help get more EI claims processed? Were more nurses hired to address some of the issues with health care backlogs? Maybe we're looking at more police officers being staffed somewhere to address organized crime? I haven't a clue.

The one issue everyone seems to not even consider, is the fact that the demand for most (not all but certainly most) government services DOES NOT decrease when the economy goes in the tank. Unlike a pulp mill who is only busy when people want to buy paper, hospitals need to be funded all of the time. The same goes for schools, protecting our borders, administering social programs, etc. Ironically enough, some of the demands for government services actually INCREASE when the economy goes into the tank (processing more EI claims, people get more sick because of stress, more people turn to crime as a means to make money, etc.).

I know that people love to throw out the good ole "government should be run like a business" line, so if that really is want people want, shouldn't we be supportive of governments when they try to maintain service levels for the "products" (services) they provide to their "customers" (citizens) when those products are in demand (which they typically always are)?

I agree that private sector job creation is critical to economic recovery, however, I'm not sure I see the relationship between slashing government spending and creating private sector job growth, because there isn't one. Slashing government spending right now would actually make things worse for the millions of people (you and I included) who rely on government services every day of the year.

If any of you donuts have an idea to reduce the administration costs associated with having two seperate taxes, increasing incentives to business, and increasing government income (which provides US with services) then we are all ears.

No one is interested in the people that point out problems without providing solutions, any idiot can do that. We need solutions people, not more complaining. If all the whiners on this site put there effort into something constructive then we wouldnt have any problems. Maybe you people should do everyone a favor and go jump in a pothole.

Can a person sign the petition online?

Imorge. You cant sign online. You must sign a petition from a Canvasser. Im sure that they will be going door to door, and will probably set up some places around town, so you shouldnt have any problem finding a petition to sign.

Born in BC. You and your blowhard co-horts like to ask others for solutions. I notice that your screwed up solution in to raise taxes. Any bloody idiot can do that.

Ask yourself some simple questions.

1. If this bloody HST tax is so good, why did in take Governments in BC 19 years to implement it.

2. If the PST is such a bad tax, why did the Governments of the day implement it, and why did they keep it for so long.

3. We are in serious debt to-day, because all levels of Government have been borrowing and spending like drunken sailors, and the chickens have come home to roost.

4. If the cost of services are high, it is because the Government allowed the public service to take them to the cleaners for wages and benefits, and also pay to much for anything they do.


We need a major downsizing of Governments, ie; Federal, Provincial, Regional, and Municipal. The taxes saved from getting rid of the deadwood, can be better spent by those who earn the money in the first place. Ie; the taxpayers of Canada.

Remember taxpayers must earn the money first, before there is any money available to pay for services. To many people to-day forget that without taxpayers their would be no public employees.

In this case there is no question as to what came first. The taxpayer or the Civil Servant. Its pretty obvious.

Last but not least, you **donuts** keep asking us to find solutions, and you complety forget that is why we hire public servants and pay them wages. Its thier bloody job to find solutions, and to be fiscally responsible, and when they are not, it is our job to get rid of them.