Here is a site that provides some more information on the types of projects that have already been built in the last 5+ years. I notice one or more also involved wood from Quebec.

As well, the US is involved in promoting the sale of their lumber.

The addition of one wooden floor on top of an existing 2 storey concrete structure is interesting.

http://www.canadawood.cn/english/a/dhc_002.html

This site is a bit dated, but shows that the US has been at it for at least 10 years.

http://www.fas.usda.gov/info/agexporter/2000/Feb/chinas.htm

Maybe Chinese contruction needs a bit more quality control. Does not look like there is too much rebar in the hollow pile footings.

http://izismile.com/2009/06/29/apartment_building_fell_down_in_china_12_pics.html

Dear China....
Keep him...
no one here that I know of wants him back

I was born in Prince George in 1946.I live in China for part of every year and have travelled all over China for the past 12 years. I have to laugh at the BS we get from our MLA's , we pay all this money for their trips to China as fact finding missions.One example... Here the Government and Hydro talk save energy in China they save energy and all the MLA's who have been in China know about it but not one has ever even mentioned it . All Hotel rooms and lots of apartments in China use and plastic credit card looking key,when you enter your room or apartment you insert the card into a slot by the door and it turns your power on, when you leave you take the card out and your power is off, Your fridge is wired separate. Save power Yes! fact finding MLA's BS. Talk to hotel staff and taxi drivers the Government fact finding trips are a bunch of drunken holidays where they become demanding and insulting to the staff. If they did that in this country they would be charged with abuse,maybe that is why we see now our elected representives raising hell in our airports,seems they think they are better than everyone else and can do what they want.
As for lumber Bell and them ceo's ( on our tax dollars )know that the first thing China needs are carpenters that can work with lumber. There steel, Concrete, plastic and glass are what they know how to use.

Are you sure that they need carpenters? It is easy to bang a few nails into a bunch of 2" x s in a rectangular fashion.

To put together a heavy timber framed roof is a bit more difficult than that. In addition, China is one of the main suppliers of wood furniture. Cabinet making, even with new cad/cam machinery, is a bit more difficult than framing a platform framed wood building.

chinese housing .....
http://thumb15.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/257926/257926,1246247308,1/stock-photo-windows-of-chinese-housing-blocks-32822965.jpg

Let me see .... I used to work for BCBC in the late 1970s, you know, shortly after the first "oil crisis". We began installing photoelectric sensors in some government offices on a trial basis. Any movement, the lights would go on. If you dozed off at your desk, the lights would go off. In addition, some newer offices had the outside light banks switched separately and some on sensors, so that lights would go off when the light outside provided sufficient light.

The same happened at CNC shortly afterwards in all their classrooms. Lights went off automatically when not in use.

The hotels we stay at in Vancouver have the same system you speak of. Open the door and the lights go on. Pain in the neck! I like low light in my living spaces. I work with task lights. Have for 40+ decades. I do not need the pain of having lights go on automatically when I enter a space and then having to turn them off.

No big deal. Nothing to learn other than teaching people to actually use those tecnical aids properly. Many simply do not.

Like those low flush toilets. End up flushing twice ... even three times.

Low flush toilets...bad...very bad!
Had no luck with them at all!

"Dear China....
Keep him...
no one here that I know of wants him back."

Now you do.

Doesn't Canfor do their own marketing anymore? Why is the taxpayer footing the bill for these trips? What business does Bell have in flogging 2x4's in China? What kind of business is Canfor exactly? The taxpayers subsidize their stumpage, build them bridges and overpasses ,and now evidently sells their wood as well. No wonder Patterson is rich.

Shame, Shame, Shame, How many raw logs have left the province and ended up in China at a very cheap price just to ensure that the Chinese continue to buy Canfor lumber. Pat Bell at work again.

Another truck load of B.S. The fourth trip in just under two years, show us the money Patty, where has $327 million gone, we still have the countries highest child poverty rate. We still have mills laying people off. How long are we going to put up with this clown telling us what we want to hear. Until he misses a few meals or pay cheques he has no idea what alot of people in this province are goig through.

Gus. Nice to see that when you worked (I use the term loosly) at BCBC you had lights that would go off when you snoozed. I suspect that the lights were off most of the time.

I agree with omygod when it comes to what happens when these dudes go to China or any other Country on taxpayers dollars.

Insofar as Canfor, or West Fraser goes, they have been selling lumber to China for over 20 years. All this hype from Bell is just BS. You can look up Canfor, or West Fraser, or other Canadian Lumber Sites and they will show you where their sales offices are located around the world.

Anyone who thinks that a lumber company needs Pat Bell to sell their product needs serious therapy.

Bell says that the top 4 floors of these apartment buildings could result in sales of 25 Billion board feet of lumber.


Seems to me that the total export of lumber from Canada worldwide would run around 25 Billion board feet. The USA buys at least 50%.

It seems pretty obvious that his numbers are bunko.

Ditto.

Palopu,

I dont think you understand the theory of the 4 floors in China.

It is a vast market, currently they use other building methods, were not replacing other countries sales, it is creating a new market.

For those of you saying there hasnt been an upturn in the foresty market your mistaken, last winter, around Nov-Dec those working in the industry saw a pretty strong increase in the demands of the mills. Only problem is they want green spruce, not dry pine. This green spruce is headed mainly to China in "j" grade lumber.

Stompin Tom. I understand that it is a vast market, however Pat is implying that if we could get the 4 top floors in China it would amount to sales of 25 Billion fbm.

My point is that all the lumber ;produced in Canada and exported around the world amounts to approx 25 billion fbm, so it is highly unlike that we would cut off all our other customers to supply lumber to China at a lower price per fbm.

I dont doubt there will be an increase in sales of lumber to China (mostly cull) however it certainly would not be 25 Billion fbm.

Palopu wrote:

"Gus. Nice to see that when you worked (I use the term loosly) at BCBC you had lights that would go off when you snoozed. I suspect that the lights were off most of the time."

There you see the problems with Palopou's writings, folks. He assumes I worked in the inner bowels of a building rather than on the perimeter and he assumes that we did not, in our own perimeter offices, have lights banked so that they would not go on in outside offices. Finally, he does not take the clue that I work with task lights which, of course, are plugged into electrical outlets and are not connected to the lighting grid.

If palopou would only learn to be discerning, we may have some material to work with here. But he is not. :-)

Hey, does anyone have a clue where palopou works/used to work (again, using that term loosely of course)? LOL

Gus. I quote you **If you dozed off at your desk the lights would go off** So maybe I got it wrong, however Im glad that you installed lights that would go off if other Goverment workers (using the term loosely of course) snoozed. Either way you made the admission that there was the possibility of some snoozing going on.

Is the term **Government Worker** an oxymoron???

I wont tell you where I have worked Gus., but I will tell you that it has been over a very long period of time, in various capacities, including my own business's, and most of the time I was discerning, in many areas.

As a matter of interest whatever happend to BCBC, or is that a state secret.

http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/resources/global-etiquette/china-country-profile.html

Chinese business etiquette is extremely complicated and different from ours. They don't like doing business directly with companies but they prefer an intermediary who is of importance and can facilitate formal contacts and introductions. What is a better qualified person than a high government official, like a Minister of Forestry???

I imagine that there is a set of established rules to follow also when government officials from abroad are attempting to meet with Chinese government officials.

It is their country and if we wish to have a working relationship with them we must always respect their customs and gain their respect.

Pat Bell is a very hard working person who has already achieved a lot and sales to China have increased twofold since he first got involved.

It is not his fault that there are logging operations in B.C. who want to sell only raw logs. Nobody can force them to stop doing that.

To call his serious efforts "flogging 2x4s" is an insult.

If he would not make these efforts some people would condemn him for sitting on his butt in his office and not doing anything to promote B.C.'s forest industry.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Go figure.

Talk to someone in Mackenzie and hear what they have to say about Mr. Forests and Range. He likes to keep everyone happy with his sugar coated B.S., it will not be too long before he is collecting his big fat pension.

Palopu,

your doing a fine job of picking apart nothing. Read Mr Bell's quote again:

“If B.C. could provide lumber for just the top 4 floors of these buildings, it would mean the sale of 25 billion board feet of lumber every year”

The opperative word? "IF"

He is obviously stating the max amount possible. Nowhere does he say that Canada will shift all exports to China.

The point that is implied but not stated, it would create a HUGE demand for softwood lumber, therefor achieving 2 goals, 1st putting many people back to work, 2nd driving the price up to where it should be.

Your ability to create nonsense out of nothing is pretty impressive. One of these days you should try commenting on the actual story and quotes rather than periphrials based on half truths.

palopu

A question on your quote:

"I dont doubt there will be an increase in sales of lumber to China (mostly cull) however it certainly would not be 25 Billion fbm."

the mostly cull part, are you referring to the quality of lumber that they expect to ship?

If so you are so far from the truth it is mindboggling. The incease in sales to China this past winter were dominated by J grade lumber, the best of the best. Check with any mill in the area, that is why green spruce suddenly became very important again.

Just shows that you spend allot of time talking about many things you know nothing of.

dirtcheap

I spent 2 days in Mackenzie last week, people there seem pretty pumped about Conifex taking over, as well as the potential asia pacific deal. Didnt hear any negatives that I recall.

Stompin Tom. There may well be a small increase in J Grade lumber to China, However if you would take the time to look at some statistics you would see that in 2009 for the first time in BC History we exported significant more lumber to China than we did Japan.

However if you look at the dollar figures you would see that the revenue from the lower sales to Japan far exceeded the revenue from the increased tonnage to China.

The reason for this is quite obvious. The majority of lumber exported to China is low grade and does not attract the same prices that we get from Japan, USA, and other Countries.

I suggest that you do some research before you start shooting from your loose lip keyboard.

Insofar as Bells stupid statement goes. He would have been far better off to keep his mouth shut, rather than make such a dumb statement.

Palopu,



The big increase going to China now is in J grade lumber used for actual building purpose's rather than remanufactoring.

Maybe you should do a little research before spouting off as that is the market that Bell, Canfor and West Fraser are going after.

Of course your negativity towards pretty much everything will prevent you from having an open mind.

As for Bell's statement, it is an absolute truth, there could be a market for as much as 25 billion board feet per year. If you have a problem with that, thats your own problem.

You seem to miss the point Tom. 25 Billion per year would be the total production of all of Canada, and would never happedn

Secondly you should know that in the not too distant future we will have less lumber available for export because of the pine beetle etc; The projections for the next 20 years in BC are for approx 16 Mills to close. If we were to increase our exports to China, and maintain our other customers around the world, then we would run out of timber sooner rather than later. Its not as if we have an unlimited supply of timber. We are trying for a sustainable forest industry.

Bell, Canfor, and West Fraser would drop China like a hot potato as soon as the American and Japanes market rebounds. (Its all about the money)

BC Stats. (Same Government that Bell belongs to states the following.

**Another commodity that has benefited from demand from China is softwood lumber, year to date exports (Aug 2009) the value of lumber exports to Mainland China has doubled. In fact, in volume terms, China has surpassed Japan as a destination for BC lumber. However China's lumber purchases have been concentrated on low value lumber, particularly beetle-killed wood, such that Japan still ranks well ahead of China in terms of value of lumber exported from BC.**

**China's demand for economy - grade wood has been a boon to regions suffering from the blight of the pine beetle as the Chinese are buying up as much low grade lumber as the mills can produce**

So there you have it. I have seen no mention of J Grade Lumber except from yourself, however do doubt there is some market for it.

If you dont like these stats I suggest you take it up with the BC Liberal Government and Pat Bell as they are the ones who put them out.

Go to BC Stats Export on your search engine, and read them and weep.

Palopo

You seem to have a real problem with reading comprehension.

Go back to the quote you call stupid and what ever else you claim it to be.

“If B.C. could provide lumber for just the top 4 floors of these buildings, it would mean the sale of 25 billion board feet of lumber every year”

What is the operative word?

IF

The 1st word in the sentence. The point his is trying to make is correct, if these buildings convert to lumber, there is a potential market for 25 billion board feet.

Its that simple, there is a vast vast potential market they are working on. IF they were converted to lumber are we naive enough to think all that lumber would come from BC? No, Canada? No.

But it is well worth working on, taking the steps required to help create that market. If it meant an increase of 1 billion board feet that would be a great feat.

Your criticism is unfounded and simply stupid.

If you have an axe to grind with him thats your problem, but quite wasting time arguing about this, your point is totaly out of context.

As for you last point, you use information from Aug 2009.

The projects that Bell has been working on have taken flight after that, the shipments have just started in the past few months. Talk to any log buyer from Canfor, Dunkley or Westfraser. They are buying up green spruce at prices higher than they have paid in 4 years. Why? So they can sell J grade to China.

Its black and white, pick up your phone and ask them.

West Fraser Mike Sarabyn 250-991-5431
Dunkleys Doug Nelson 250-998-4215
Canfor Jim Reimer 250-567-4725

Anything else you need to know?

One last point, China's interest in lowgrade lumber? Same as always, they use it in reman, simple, plain, what more do you need to know?

The current projects are all for high grade lumber.

Palopu

just for your information according to stats can, in 2005 Canada produced 84,000,000 cubic meters of lumber, which converts to 37 billion board feet.

Here are the export stats in C$ and cubic metres ... conversion is just over 423 board feet per cubic metre

http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/bus_stat/busind/trade/swl.asp

If you look at the money received for softwood lumber shipped to the USA and shipped to China, there is really no difference. They all use the dame cheap lumber we do.

The higher grades go to Japan ... getting about $270/m3 instead of about $140/m3 ... Europe is the highest at about $750/m3 averaged over the last two years.

Intersting to see the drop in BC shipments to the USA

2009 - 5.0 billion board feet
2008 - 6.7 bbf
2007 - 9.7 bbf
2006 - 11.7 bbf
2005 - 12.1 bbf
2004 - 11.3 bbf
2003 - 10.1 bbf
2002 - 9.8 bbf
2001 - 9.1 bbf
2000 - 8.3 bbf
1999 - 8.5 bbf

So, down to half of the 10 year norm ....

BTW, total CANADIAN shipments of softwood to Japan has dropped to 1/3 of what it was in 1996, the high point at 2.6 bbf

It sure is nice to have meaningful increases in sales to China, who are paying as much as the USA, but considerably less than the Europeans who seem to like top grade wood.

I say let's sell 4 BBF to China and let the USA buy from Russia. We can sell some of our Alberta tar sands oil to transport the stuff half way around the world when it could be had next door ... :-)