enough talk..where can I sign the petitiom?

That's the question I have, where do I sign?

Where can people in Vanderhoof sign?

I'm signing but like everything else Campbell will just rip it up and tell us where to go even if we do win. As far as he's concerned and stated "It's a done deal"

If he does rip it up, it will be the last thing he rips up.

He will be sticking his middle finger up to the tax payers of this Province! I don't think that will go very well for him. What do you think Bruce?

Let the dance begin.
It will be interesting to see how well the people of B.C.stand up for themselves and democracy,regardless of the outcome.
Personally,I do not believe the HST is a done deal as Campbell claims.
It can be done providing the opposition from the public is strong enough and we don't back off, as I am sure Campbell is hoping we do.
Unleash the hounds and let's get at it!

Canvassers will be coming to your home for signatures. We are meeting on Sunday to receive our canvassers badges, instructions and Initiative papers. See you soon. :}

I WANT TO SIGN THE PETITION!

Dont knock on my door. As a small business owner I am in favor of it.

Lets hope you don't own a restaurant Stompin,because if I find out which one you wont see my business!

This HST is not good for the average taxpayer.

I can understand that some small business owners might be in favour of it, however it seems to me that it would depend on the size and nature of your business.

The tax itself is basically for large com;panies, and especially those companies who manufacture and export their product. This is a tax shift from Large Corporations to the consumer.

Stompin Tom. I think that unless your **small business** is quite **large** you will get no savings from this tax.

Remember that you would have to compare the amount of money you and your family are taxed as individuals to the amount you save through tax credits etc; in your company. Two entirely different processes.
In other words it may be somewhat good for your business but still bad overall.

As an example; Even though you own a small business you and your family will pay an additional 7% on the following. (Just a small list)
1. Restaurant meals
2. Cable TV
3. Telephone
4. Internet
5. Hockey Tickets
6. Hair Cuts
7. Admission fees
8. Membership fees
9. Movies,Theatres
10. Rents/Strata fees
11. Taxi Fares
12. Airline Tickets
13. Golf Fees
14. Funeral Services
15. Veterinarian.

The list goes on. (70 taxable items)

Average tax for a family of two with 2 children earning in the area of $40,000 to $80,000.00 per year could vary from as low as %500.00 to a high of $2500.00 per year depending on your spending habits. Remember this is a consumer tax. The more you spend the more you are taxed.

As the campaign to get signatures gets underway anyone who wants to sign will be able to do so before the end of the 90 day period. I heard that they might be setting up an office where people can drop in and sign the petitions.

Have a nice day.

Oh Palopu you got it wrong. Gordo says the money saved by businesses will be passed onto the consumer and employees.

Good point seamutt...and Gordon Campbell would never lie to us...would he??

Yes Seamutt, but will the businesses pass the money on!

you cant believe anything Campbell says he is a proven lier, I dont even understand why he is still around?
just a lier and a criminal but people still voted for him?????

I would like to sign, this tax is last thing any of us(taxpayer)needs right now. Mr. Vander Valm and the CIP need to announce to the province how we can sign. Especially the rural parts of the province. Get the young people involved in this petition.

Palopu

As a small business owner I am very away of how this tax will effect me, and I can assure you it is definetly in my best interest to support it.

What many here dont seem to understand is we as small business owners have been taxed and fee's at a very alarming rate the past 10 years, the amount of time and money we have to spend to keep up is crazy. To finally get a tax break is a big thing.

In my case I can expect to see a net gain of nearly $10,000 in the 1st year. That is my accountants figures, not mine.

and will you stompin tom pass on all that savings to the taxpayer that supports you.

Fair enough Tom, and I agree that you probably need a break from taxes, however so do the rest of us, as we are all taxed to the Max.

I dont see it as a solution for myself and others to be subject to a higher tax, so that you can get a tax break, however I can see why you would like it.

The fact of the matter is; We have to stop Government from screwing all of us. We need to find another way for you to get the benefits that you deserve to run a business in this Country and we need to ensure that others get some tax releif.

I dont think that the petition will pass or fail depending on the votes from Small Business, as there is a huge groundswell of support for this petition.

Lets remember that this year alone we have been subjected to:

1. An increase in Hydro rates that could go as high as 13% over the next few years.

2. The Carbon Tax

3. The HST

4. The kiting of $780 Million from ICBC to Provincial General Revenues. This money was originally slated to be returned to BC Drivers in the form of a safe driving rebate.
5. An increase in user fees at Government Camp Grounds etc;

6. An increase in Municipal taxes.

7. Two increases in Garbage taxes.

God knows what else they have in store for us.

People have to take a stand and bring this BS to a standstill. The first thing to do is **Kill the HST** This will send a message to all Governments. Ie; Federal, Provincial, Regional, and Municipal, that we have had it.

**NO MORE TAXES**

If this HST gets rammed through I personally will look at everything I would have normally purchased pretax and decide whether or not I will spend the money or not.
My own personal protest!

So how do you plan on turning that $10,000 into savings for the taxpayers Stompin Tom?
The only thing I see here is less money in your customer's pockets.
I fail to see how that is good for you as business owner who depends on the buying power of his customers?

Stompins vaction plans will change from the usual camping at Purden Lake to the Dominican Republic.

Gordo just got $250 million pesos from Ottawa as a down payment for the upcoming HST. Horrors if he has to pay it back if the citizens quash this tax. He probably spent it already.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9015942.html

First off, can someone explain this new math where if more items are now taxable that will save me the consumer citizen money?

Second, can someone explain to me how an increase in the HST to 15% across the board is to keep more of my money in my wallet?

Stompintom: As a business person, it is important to keep all your expenses low. You are in business to make a profit, that is a given. To do so by holding down the victim whilst the government has their carnal fun is not good public relations. In case you have not noticed, many here are tired of seeing business get all the benefits and consumers get the business. Democratic Government is supposed to be for the people, not to the people. All government has done is foist more onto the taxpayer as they party it up with their big business buddies on our dime.

Step back for a moment and forget you are a business person, and think as a consumer and a taxpayer. Now tell us all how this is good. If there is less in my wallet to spend, I will spend less at your business.

Stompin' Tom: It doesn't matter what you say, the rabid dogs that roam this site will pounce on you no matter what you say.

I am not a business owner, but I have heard the same Pro-HST sentiment from many of my friends who are.

Harbinger, first of all Gordon Campbell did not get 250 million dollars. We as a province got $250 million dollars.

Hammy, fine don't support Stompin Tom or as a matter of fact, don't support any business. Don't pay your taxes. After all this defiance, where are you going to go to buy food. how are you going to get there if you don't buy gas. Where are you going to go if you need medical attention.
We want it all, but you got to pay for it.

Seriously, if you can not afford the 12% on the restaurant bill, your likely not going out to eat at a restaurant anyway.

It is short term pain for long term gain. Sooner or later we will all go back to our spending habits anyway.

So who is this Bill VanderZalm anyway. Is he a worn out old politician trying to get one more shot in the limelight, hanging his hat on something that he knows he will never defeat, thus his name will end up in wikipedia as a good man.

Bill VanderZalm happens to be a former premier that was in power during one of the best economic periods in recent BC history.
It took 2 different parties succeeding him to tank the economy.

A nice man I have never perceived him to be. An effective and truly democratic party leader he was.

Loki, I was trying Sarcasm. obviously I'm not good at it.

I think the world changed since the late 1980's. Back then we did not live in such a green environmental climate. We believed that our resources would be infinite. We believed that we can demand to the world what ever we wanted, and the world has to pay for our standard of living. Back then we thought that we would always be the front dog.

its not easy for a redneck to admit. But, It is a better world we are living in. We realize that conserving and recylcing is a good thing. We realize that we need to be a part of the world economy. we all recognize that we were living a little too high on the hog.

I think if we Canadians are positioned better than the Americans, We have the resources, and the willingness too work hard. This could be our century.

I will take a visible consumption tax any day over an increase in income tax.

Just say no to the Anti-HST door knockers!

Well put, Payshisownway.

Sorry about the last comment, I went off the rails.

He Spoke. Your ass is out a mile.

Firstly there will be something in the area of 400,000 people signing these petitions.

Secondly. Governments collect more than sufficient money to run the Province and Municipalities. The problem is not how many tax dollars are available, but how many tax dollars are wasted, primarily on goofy projects. The only solution that Governments to-day have to solve any problems is to raise taxes. A five year old child could do that.

Thirdly. Most of the food you buy in this Country is sold to you by multi national corporations, who are quite capable of looking after themselves, so is the gas you buy. We already pay billions in health care and education, and have been for years.

Fourthly. No one on this site as far as I know are complaining about paying taxes for necessary services etc; They are complaining about being overtaxed, and the money being wasted.

Fifthly. This HST is to replace the PST presently being paid by big business, ie: Canfor, West Fraser, Rito Tinto Alcan, Oil Companies, etc; etc; etc;. It is a tax shift pure and simple, the same as the GST was used to replace the 13.5% manufacturing tax.

Sixthly. I am sure that at the end of the day, if this tax remains in place that the people who supported it will get a letter of commendation from the Multi National Companies thanking them for helping them to reap bigger profits.

Seventhly. At least Bill Vanderzalm took the bull by the horns and is trying to have this tax recinded. This is a big project, and takes a lot of time and effort. I beleive that VanderZalm is 76 years old, and could very easily sit on the sidelines in Florida and watch us all get beat to hell by this tax crazed Government. Obviously he choose not to.

You dont know diddly squat about eating in a restaurants or what people can afford. And I might add its none of your business what we spend, where we spend it, or who we spend it on. The bottom line is, its my bloody money and I will pay a reasonable tax, and anything over and above that I will protest. To do otherwise is to be a foot stool. You on the other hand seem quit content to stand in your stall and be milked every day.

hmmm, Palopu,

Doesn't matter if you big business or small business, we need to be competitive. Thus HST, provides businesses to become competitive in local, regional and global market place.

Firstly, 400,000 people in the area. I was always under the impression that Northern BC had about 300,000 people.

Secondly, the government needs to collect more money to take care of all the gray hairs. I do believe 45% of the taxes are being spent on health care.

Thirdly, the only difference between a big company and a small company is number of zeros. Thus fundamentally, the principals of ensuring revenues exceeds expenses are very similar. Thus, you can own a small store like the Jolley Market, or Save on foods. Your still working on the same principals. The good thing about the huge companies, is that it does employ a lot of people, and working people pays taxes.

Fourthly, I am pretty sure the fundamentals of people protesting the HST on this site is about paying taxes

fifthly, your hatred for big companies and the expectation that they should bear the cost of our standard of living is a bit of skew. We created this mess, the multi corporations can leave, and we would all be unemployed.

It was a valid question, regardless of the sarcastic intent.

When times get tough and money is tight,we do what we have to do to survive.
The first thing we do is stop spending.
Common sense.
The Campbell government did not do that.
Even when they knew we were pretty much dead broke,they just kept on spending.
The Olympics did in fact, have much to do with that,like it or not.
But the Olympics were not the only folly the Campbell government indulged itself in.
Too many mega-projects when the cash cow was running dry.
They spent like there was no end to the cash with one project after another.
Mostly on the lower mainland I might add.
Now we are being asked to pay for something that we as taxpayers did NOT do,even though the government blames the taxpayers for always wanting more.
And that is what the HST is really about.
That federal money will cover up a lot of financial mistakes made by the Liberals that they would rather we did not see.
As usual,the truth is not in them.

sixthly, still the hatred for big coporation is not the answer.

seventhly, We have Vanderzalm, the States have Dick Chenney.

There is one thing I will admit about the HST is. The final end consumer will pay for it. The final end consumers are the people living in the province. We are the people relying on roads being plowed. We are the people expecting hospitals being able to take our sick relatives. We are the people expecting that social infrastructures in place to take care the have nots. We are the people that have children going to schools and post secondary. We are the people expecting the elderly being taken care of in homes, instead of we taking care of our own parents. We are the people that benefits from the taxes we pay.

We can recieve any level of service we want, the level of service is based on what we pay.

Waste in the government. Its no different than the waste we have at our own homes and businesses.

You're right He spoke...we do recieve the level of service we pay for.
If we want more...we have to pay more.
But what about when we are given what we did not ask for?
What about when what we are given only benefits a specific few?
Do we still have to pay for that, even though we recieve no benefit from it and didn't ask for it?
The government in all it's worldy wisdom simply tells us it is good for us,so suck it up and deal with it?
No way.

Exit right, No more comments on this subject.

He Spoke, Dont try and compare business in BC with Multi National Corporations, there is no comparison.

Some simple points.

1. If the PST is such a bad tax why was it implemented by the Provincial Governments and why was it kept for so many years.

2. The money to implement the HST has been available to Provinces since about 1993 why did the Provincial Liberals wait until 2010 to implement it. Are we to beleive that it took them that long to realize that this was a great tax for business and the economy, and consumers.

3. There was no mention of this tax when lumber was selling in the USA for over $400.00 per 1000 fbm, during 2004-2008. This was when the lumber companies were making millions in profits, and were keeping their months shut. Once the price dropped they hut down mills and laid off people, and now you want us to pay their taxes. Gimme a break.

4. This HST scheme was talked about and brought into being behindclosed doors by Big Business and the Liberal Government. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dream world.

Sure allot of naive people on this site.

How many of your really understand how many small business people there are, just in this city alone?

A small business doesnt have to be a grocery store, a gas station, a restaurant.

The forestry industry is built on small business. Every one of your neighbors who own a cat or a skidder or a loader or a logging truck or a dump truck, they are all small business people as well.

Those of you who chose to sign a petition, thats your right, but what I dont understand is some of the idiot comments about the people who support the tax. Yeah, Stompin Tom is going to the Dominion for holidays, hey Tom, how you going to pass the savings along to the consumers who support you, the naive and idiocy goes on and on.

How many of you really stop to think about how much tax money myself and my small business compatriots put into the coffers? I will challenge any of you unionized workers to compare my tax burden to yours. I can prove to anybody who has the balls to put their information up that I put in an average of 10 times the amount of taxes into the government than any of you do.

I hear the whining and complaining that small business has all the advantages, Bull Crap! That is the stupidity of the uneducated talking. You have no idea what it takes, what we pay into the coffers. If its so great why don't you get off your ass and start your own business?

If it wasn't for small business we wouldn't have this great country that we have now.

I respect the opinions of those who have thought things out and have reasonable responses, the one line wonders, nothing more than welfare bums in my opinion.

Exactly Palopu!
He Spoke says business needs to be competitive and the HST will do that. Pfffft! ya ok!

Maybe if business wanted to be competitive they should lower their prices in line with the rest of the continent.
I have been spending a whole pile of my money over the past years in the good ole US of A and Alberta. The reason....if I can pay $180.00 for an item in the states and the same item here in BC is $40.00 more, why wouldn't I send my money to the states? Now the dollar is almost par with the USA they are getting even more of my money. So will Alberta.

Competitive you say! BC business knows not what that means. To them competitivness means a contest to see how much of the consumers money they can get into their bank accounts.

Gordon Campbell is right there making their dreams come true!

Once the federal government gets control of taxing us and ALL THE MONEY, we are in big trouble. The west gets ignored already. Do you think BC will get their fair share back? If you do, I want the drugs your on. If the provincial government wants to hand over the business of tax collecting to the feds then do we need them? Why don’t we just let the federal government look after us? Our constitution states that only the provincial governments can tax the people directly, what the hell happened to that? People, we are losing our rights! We are paying people to screw us over. Wake the hell up already.

Dragonmaster,

Im curious, what do you do for a living? Do you have the balls to be truthful?

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Oh I didnt realize it was so easy for a small business to be successful as to simply "lower thier price to be inline"... ok people... PLEASE open your own business and follow that logic. Thanks.
ps - If dragonmaster isnt a union employee I'll eat my hat ;-)

You people fail to realize that YES there are problems with our tax system, and yes small business has many problems operating. Bin der dun dat. However at the end of the day the onus is on the small and intermediate business's to fix these problems with the Government.

By fixing the problems, I dont mean to increase my taxes so that Stompin Tom can make more money. He should be chasing the Government to reduce his WCB Costs, his EI Costs, Payroll costs etc;

It wasnt me that overcharged Canadians $46 Billion dollars in Employment Insurance rates, and then kited the money into the Federal Governments General Revenue, it was Mr. Dithers the Liberal Paul Martin.

It wasnt me that asked for the bloody Olympics that costs us hundreds of millions of dollars, for a party for a few ingrates in Vancouver, it was the Liberal Gordon Campbell.

It wasnt me that spent $36 Million dollars on an airport runway that hasnt got any airplanes using it.

It wasnt me that asked for a bloody Boundry Road extension at a cost of $38 Million that will benefit those who **just happen** to own property along the right of way .

It wasnt me that stiffed ICBC for 780 Million .

It wasnt me who decided that ICBC should have 9 Billion dollars in investments.

The problem is not that the Province has no money, its that the Politicians are out of control, and need to be replaced.

If we dont stop these shylocks with the HST then they will just continue to tax us to death.

Stompin Tom can rest assured that once they put through this HST, then a few years down the road they will be back at his door looking for more money.

Just ask the Charities that gave up their rights to the Government in return for 30 pieces of silver. The Government is now cutting back on their grants.

I notice that although people make a lot of comments on this site they very seldom answer specific questions, is it because they dont have the answers or they dont understand the question??

Ill ask again:

If the PST is such a bad tax, then why did the Government keep it in for years and years.

If the HST was such a good tax, then why did the Government not implement it in 1993 rather than wait until 2010.

If the dog didnt stop to S--t would he have caught the rabbit???

The taxpayers of BC are being conned, and there seems to be a hell of a lot of people who cant seem to grasp that concept.

Thats exactly why cons work. Just ask Bernie Madoff.

Palopu

Your picking the wrong guy for a fight.

You make my point with your 1st comment, in your words

"However at the end of the day the onus is on the small and intermediate business's to fix these problems with the Government."

Really? I should contribute 10 times the tax than you do the coffers, but I should sign away one of the 1st tax changes that makes sense for my business?



Get real.

The changes are good for small business in many ways. Small business is the backbone of the country.

I support it.

If you dont, sign your petition and quit looking for somebody to blame your problems on.

Oh by the way, I can reduce my payroll costs, by going out of business and laying off my employees. Maybe, just maybe this helps me keep them working. As far as giving back, do any of you dimwits consider if I can increase my cashflow I can do things to help my business like repair equipment, upgrade when needed, spend money at other local business's?

Yup, any extra tax breaks mean Im going to the Dominican. Some of you really live in a dreamland.

Hey Pal, I'm with you. Taxes are killing any initiative we may have left. If government didn't waste so much of what they take from us, I wouldn't care.

In all honesty, I prefer to give my money away to those in need. But, I resent the way government continues to take away from me and spends it on all of the special interest groups who grovel (lobby) for a piece of the pie.

I have been a business owner for over 15 years and I am against the HST. I am more concerned about all of my clients more than myself. The HST is not going to benefit anyone I know. So, I will be signing the petition and suggesting that all of my clients consider doing the same.

A breath of fresh air Chester. Thanks.

I wonder if and when Tom sat down with the Government and discussed the HST and what ramifications it would have on his business.

I suggest that the only people discussing this tax (behind closed doors) would be Colin Hansen, Campbell, and major Corporation, CEO's. Those people who draw down Millions a year in salary, and also get share value. These are the big winners at the end of the day.

If Tom was at the table, maybe he can tell us what was discussed. Who came up with the idea, Business or Government, and how they decided to implement it without us getting too pissed off.

If Tom thinks he is part of that crowd then he is clearly dillusional, he is nothing more than another pissed off tax payer, and for that reason alone he should sign the petition to put a stop to Government increases.

After the HST we can then go after some other concessions, and if they are not forthcoming we can kick them the hell out of Government.

Palopu,

Now your just being an idiot.

You started off with good points to support your side, but now nothing but fail.

Just got a email from fighthst.com asking for confirmation as a volunteer. I replied right away and looks like I be knocking on doors soon. We still need more canvassers so please get out and help. We WILL win this one Tom. If we dont then guess it will be like the election was. No participation. If a few more would have bothered to go vote ( I did ) so I can say this we would not be in this predicament now. I went out to vote in hope of getting rid of campbell no matter who was to replace him. Heres your last chance BC. Stand up and do something now or we all gonna be drove into the poor house. WE WILL WIN. DON'T FORGET THAT. >tom.

Just got a email from fighthst.com asking for confirmation as a volunteer. I replied right away and looks like I be knocking on doors soon. We still need more canvassers so please get out and help. We WILL win this one Tom. If we dont then guess it will be like the election was. No participation. If a few more would have bothered to go vote ( I did ) so I can say this we would not be in this predicament now. I went out to vote in hope of getting rid of campbell no matter who was to replace him. Heres your last chance BC. Stand up and do something now or we all gonna be drove into the poor house. WE WILL WIN. DON'T FORGET THAT. >tom.

mattyc

If you chose to make me your martyr, so be it, but remember something while your canvasing, other are allowed their opinions as well.

When we loose that, we lose everything.

Stompin Tom. I must have hit a nerve. Try this on for size.

A. YOU were the one to start up your business.

B. Presumably you looked at all the costs such as, EI contributions, Worksafe payments, ICBC, costs, Liability Insurance, Equipment costs, Borrowing costs, Labour costs, etc; and last but not least the Provincial Sales Tax cost.

C. Having reviewed your costs you must have weighed these against the amount of money your business would generate.

D. As an astute business man you would have included the cost of the PST into the contracts you negotiated.

E. At the end of the day you would have built in an amount that would generate a profit for your business.

So the question is, where did it all go wrong???? You certainly didnt ask any of the taxpayers to support your business by paying your PST, that came much later.

I'll give you a scenario.

You are a small business operater working in the forest industry. You have a contract with one of the major players, Canfor, West Fraser, Ketchum, Carrier, Dundley et al.

At some point the Company you had the contract with called you into the office and told you exactly what you would be getting paid for your services in the future. You may have yelled and screamed for a few minutes, but when they told you it was their way or the highway you settled down.

You now probably work 16 hours per day 7 days a week, stressed to the max, and up to your ass in debt, and are trying to find a way out.

This type of situation has happened to a lot of contractors over the past years and it is a direct result of Major companies flexing their muscles, and trying to get the maximum profit for their shareholders.

At this point your choice is simple. You can go to the Company with hat in hand and ask for more money. Which you deserve, however you already know what the answer would be. Or you can hope that by getting a break on the PST you can stay in business, however that requires myself and others to pay the PST that you should have included in the costs you bill to the Company you contract with.

The problems you are encountering with your company are not because of the PST, as much as it is your inability to negotiate a contract that would generate sufficient money to make you a profit.

Many logging contractors, chip truck operators, highway transport companies, etc; are facing the same problem.

How this somehow becomes my problem eludes me.

Nuttun personal tom but the people in BC is fed up with people like you and your mentality. There comes a point when the people just aint gonna tolerate it no more. Tom we just aint got no more money for you. Your bussiness should be paying a fair share too. We bled dry already and it is incomprehensible how you can say we all now have to pay more to keep you high rollin'. There is thousands of volunteers right now in BC in every corner, and we will get much more signatures then the 10 per cent. Its possible we get 60 or 70 or more. There is so much hate for this rip off that my bet says we win big. So pack up your bizness and move to domineca or something. Good riddins.........

Why don't those people like Stompin Tom,
"small business people",INSIST that the supposedly cash starved BC government do its books under the same rules and conventions of double-entry, accrual, cost accountancy that EVERY ONE OF THEM USES IN THEIR OWN BUSINESS? Or their Accountant uses for them, (possibly in Stompin's case, and others too,
without them really having the foggiest idea just exactly what he's doing.)

You don't run your own business solely off a "budget", though most businesses will have one, so why should the Government?
Lets see a Government drawn up
Balance Sheet for the Province of BC showing the ASSETS and 'Equity', instead of just the LIABILITIES shown as the Provincial Debt.

We don't need any more taxes. What we do need, to start with, is some proper accounting along the same lines as the accounting used in EVERY private business.

Hear, Hear.

Stompin Tom, what I do for a living is none of your business.
What do you do for a living?

Interceptor, if you're not a below the poverty line minimum wage paying liberal loving business owner, I'll eat my hat!

Taking more money out of your pockets and diverting it to a centralized system is BS. If the province wanted to help business they would have rewritten a few rules and regulations. Instead, they are shifting the power of taxation directly to Ottawa, (which by the way, is not free of the will of the Queen contrary to many believe). NWO, tiptoes on one freedom removal at a time.

Now, where do I sign so I can at the very least do something to help those of you who still have your blinders on?

commoner wrote:-"Instead, they are shifting the power of taxation directly to Ottawa, (which by the way, is not free of the will of the Queen contrary to many believe)."
------------------------------------------
And a very good thing it is not, too, commoner. For the ultimate 'check' in OUR somewhat informal system of 'checks and balances' is the citizen's right of petition directly to the Crown.

The politicians in Ottawa, whatever their Party, don't ever want us to realise that. They'd like us all to believe the Queen is no more than an archaic figurehead that has no real function.

This is not the case. The modern monarchy retains three very important rights. The first is the right TO BE CONSULTED by the elected government; the second is TO ADVISE that government; and the third is TO WARN it.

Those are three very real powers which, under our system, keep any Premier, Prime Minister, or Parliament from transferring the "divine right of Kings" which took so many centuries for "we, the People" to defeat and limit to OUR service, over to themselves. They, like the Queen herself, are OUR 'servants'. Not our 'masters'.

An elected government is composed of MPs or MLAs who are supposed to be our 'representatives'. Not our 'delegates'. There is a very big difference.

While I do not think we will have to go so far as a direct Petition to the Crown to defeat the HST ~ there are many other options open to us before we get to that point ~ NO elected government could remain government in the face of a united and clear majority opposed to its policy and expressed formally in such a Petition.

In such an instance, the Queen, or her representative, the Governor-General, would be completely within her Constitutional authority to dismiss that government. No monarch would make that move unless the People were solidly behind it, and no elected government would have any legality to oppose it.

My guess, at the moment, is that if there are an overwhelming number of British Columbians that sign the now circulating Petition, which is something quite different than a direct petition to the Crown, we'll see what's supposed to be a "done deal" become an UNDONE deal very quickly.

Gentlemen,

Keep fighting your fight, thats your right.

As for signing the petition, dont knock on my door, sorry, havnt heard one compelling argument for me to walk away from the 1st tax break my business has had since it started.

Just a little info for you from my accountant, I dont have any "links" to back it up, but it is from a well respected partner at Deloitte and Touche. According to him small businesses in our industry have had taxation and fee's increase 10 times as much as the average working for wage man, and I pay on average 10 times the tax you do into the provincial coffers.

Meanwhile you have seen a decrease in income tax and EI rates, while I have had my taxes and government fee's increase 10 times?

Allot of very naive people on here. To go after small business and claim that they should turn this down to support you? Very, very naive.

Palopu

A, yes I started my business and I will run it till the day I die, I will never go back to where you are, having to rely on somebody else, sitting around bitching and moaning that the "man" is screwing you.

B, Yes, every cost if factored into my business. What you cant seem to get through your thick skull is those government inceases I can do nothing about. They are mandated, we have to pay or go to jail. How many times have I received an increase out of the blue with virtually no waring? I cant count how many. How many times has a new level of burocracy came in and added new costs and fee's? So after 23 years of being in business on my own, paying 10 times the tax's you do and getting countless increases with little to no warning I am now supposed to turn this one down, one which actually works for small business?

So let me ask you this, you make the assertion:

"Where did it go wrong"

Who says it has gone wrong? Because I support a tax break in means I am going broke? Nope, what it means is it helps generate more cash flow which inturn helps make my business stronger which inturn helps make other business's stronger which inturn keeps your sorry ass's in jobs.

In your naive world we should continue to cut to pay more and more tax's and fee's to your benefit, and finally we get a break and we should turn it down to appease your sorry ass? No thanks.

And by the way, personally I pay every bit of the HST that you do, probably a hell of allot more.

Another quote from you:

"The problems you are encountering with your company are not because of the PST, as much as it is your inability to negotiate a contract that would generate sufficient money to make you a profit."

My company is encountering poblems? My inability to negotiate a contract? Once again allot of assumptions and naivity on your part.

Let me ask you this, how much money do you have invested into the local economy? How many jobs have you created? Where does your job come from? If it wasnt for people like myself who stimulate the economy we all would be welfare bums like half the people on this site.

Palopu

I quote you from a previous post"

As an example; Even though you own a small business you and your family will pay an additional 7% on the following. (Just a small list)
1. Restaurant meals
2. Cable TV
3. Telephone
4. Internet
5. Hockey Tickets
6. Hair Cuts
7. Admission fees
8. Membership fees
9. Movies,Theatres
10. Rents/Strata fees
11. Taxi Fares
12. Airline Tickets
13. Golf Fees
14. Funeral Services
15. Veterinarian.

How many of those items are optional? You know what, other than funeral services each and every one of them are. You dont have to go to a hockey game, you dont have to go golfing.

In small business, how many of these are optional:

PST, GST, EI, CPP, Federal tax, provincial tax, ICBC, WCB, NSC, Safe Companies, personal income tax, MSP, Property tax, CVSE.

I have probably missed some.

So, I get my 1st reduction that I can remember and I should turn it back? Sorry, no thanks.

Like I have said many times, you go and sign your petition, I havnt tried to change your opinion on that, but dont bother knocking at my door.

Atta Boy Tom!

Visible consumption taxes are the only way to go. The only form of taxation a person can control with their spending choices.

A no brainer! Just say NO to the Anti-HSTers.

I hope they knock on my door. I will have some questions for them, along with the facts in writing that I predict will cause some dumbfounded stares and a simple walk away.

PaysHisOwnWay,

You know what worries me more than anything else with this subject?

The vigilante attitude of so many of the posters. The get hyped to go out and knock on doors, they try to convince those that dont support their views, they get mad, crap hits the fan.

How many signatures will they bully their way into signing. I will use my wife as an example, she is very non-confrontational, she knows my opinion and supports it, but if Im not home and somebody like Palopu attacks her at the door like he has attacked me here, she will sign just to get him to leave.

I dont care what the cause is, I dont like people knocking at my door. Whether your Jehovah, political campaign or selling vacum's dont knock on my door. I guess girlguide cookies are about the only one I support, and even they dont go door to door anymore, they set up in a mall or store.

"I dont care what the cause is, I dont like people knocking at my door. Whether your Jehovah, political campaign or selling vacum's dont knock on my door. I guess girlguide cookies are about the only one I support, and even they dont go door to door anymore, they set up in a mall or store"

That says a lot about your character dude as does calling most of the posters here "welfare bums".

I can just imagine what your employees think of ya. Remember if it wasn't for people spending money at your place of business you wouldn't have your imaginary 10 times the tax you pay more than anyone else! Pffft. That imaginary 10 times more tax is money that comes from your customers pockets. How many of your employees are the unfortunate recipients of the generous Liberal minimum wage gift you pay them?

The HST is a tax taken away from business, increased, then dumped into the laps of the citizens of BC. Campbell and Hansen say it's good for us. Us being his corporate pals. They'd have to drug my cornflakes to convince me the HST will be good for anyone other than business in BC.

Dragonmaster,

Welfare bum hit home didnt it.

Have you bothered to read any posts, or is reading comprehension another weakness you have?

I currently have 2 employee's. The 1st has been with me for 11 years, the 2nd 7 years. Both made well over $60,000 according to their last T4. Both earned their wages, very good men. Both are a month into their regular spring holiday of 3 months. Neither gets layed off, the retain their benefit package. They cant collect EI because they make to much money, yet they pay the max every year for it, as do I.

Where your naivety really comes into play is you have no idea what "small business" really is. Yes it encompasses resteraunts and cleaning companies, but it also includes contractors and doctors.

Small business is by far the leading employers in all of Canada.

So I dont like people knocking on my door with their hands out or trying to change my opinion on something? That says allot about my character?

Really now, I would like to hear just what that does say. Enlighten me.

One last point Dragonmaster and Palopu

I stated my opinion and I have defended myself, but I have not wasted anytime trying to change your opinion on the matter.

Why is it you feel so compelled to attack me with the expectation that you can change my opinion?

That says something about both of you.

Tom - The Girl Guides convinced me to purchase 2 boxes of cookies at Walmart on the weekend. I would have made the decision to purchase them even "IF" they would have been subject to HST.


I also agree with the bullying for signatures problem. I equate door-knocking with desperation. If the cause was so righteous.....there would be no need to go to the people.....the people would come to you.

PayHisOwnWay

Exactly.

Set up tables at the malls, in front of WallMart, what ever it takes, but going door to door is not welcome on my property, and I know many who agree with me on this principe.

I have a gate at the end of my driveway for a reason.

A word of advise to the door knockers, if your in the country and see "Beware of Dogs" signs, you are fully warned, those signs are there for a reason. My dogs protect my property and I assure you they will keep you in your vehicle till my family calls them off.

They must go door-to-door BECAUSE THIS IS HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS. They must follow the law on this.

If this was such a RIGHTEOUS tax, why then did it not go to referendum? WHY ARE WE SUBJECTED TO HAVING TO SIGN REVERSE PETITIONS?

It is ass-backwards, plain and simple.

"We understand that almost ALL of BC wants to sign and wants to have their voice heard, we are doing everything in our power to make this happen. Since this is an Elections BC Campaign, we are forced to work under VERY Strict guidelines which can sometime seem unreasonable.

Thank you for your understanding and for caring so passionately about BC."

http://fighthst.com/

This is where you can stay informed about the canvassing and the petition.

Hey tom
from fighthst.com
Elections BC would only issue the petitions on April 6th, so the first day was spent madly rushing to print and get petitions into the hands of canvassers. However, despite the challenges, thousands of signatures were gathered at several locations throughout the province, with Ft. St. John taking the prize with over 1,800 sign ups in one day – a new provincial record

YES WE CAN

How bout this one

“We were able to gather 10% of the required signatures for Point Grey in just one day! Once our troops get their petitions distributed to them and begin knocking on doors, we will increase that number dramatically in the next 89 days of the petition period,” Vander Zalm explained.

Shows that it would be easy to recall gordo in his riding. Thats next gordo.
YES WE CAN

"If this was such a RIGHTEOUS tax, why then did it not go to referendum? "

I had to laugh at this one. When did ANY tax in Canadian history ever get put to a referendum?

And let's for the sake of argument say that one did... who would vote 'for' any new tax no matter what it was?

Yes MrPG.
I was using the same fuzzy logic as this statement:

" If the cause was so righteous.....there would be no need to go to the people....."