I been out canvassing and have had eager people waiting for the petition. I have had 100 percent of the houses I have gone have wanted to sign. WE are going to get our signatures more then we really need. After this campaign I think this province should begin boycotting these corporate pigs that benifit from this rip off. Already I have already started this myself. I no longer buy anything new unless I really have to but I have discovered that it is easy to not buy all the time things not really needed. I intend to buy nothing here in BC. We should all start a RED SHIRT movement here. This province should go on strike. And just shut everything off until this gordo is removed from office and we get the PST restored to what it has been for the last several decades. II got no cable TV any more. They get no money from me. And if I need anything from now on I will buy it used from Ebay or yard sales or where eer I can with out tax. We should make this corupt goverment go broke. Stop buying lotto tickets. We could bring them to thier knees if they suddenly had no lotto sales. To keep going on like you do now is not going to be possible soon. They are going to literally bankrupt most people with this tax. I say fight back and stop buying all the things they want tax for. We could do it. I am doing ok without buying those lotto tickets. This is a major cash cow to gordo. STOP BUYING THEM. And stay out of the casino too. I would love to see this happen.

If everyone stopped paying their voluntary taxes (i.e. Lotteries, Casinos), the government would just get it in some other way.

Remember, taxes fund the services that everyone depends on.

Thinks maybe its time to order a million red shirts. It IS working in Thailand right now as I type here and you read this the red shirts are absolutely winning. It has taken them a few weeks but look what they are getting for the effort. Soon the corrupt and hated liars that think they can do what they want are being forced out. It shows that it is possible and if this petition going around here is any indication of what could be done here? Those folks there are not going to quit until these crooks are out of office. How bout you Mr PG would you wear a red shirt for a month? Or 2? Or just let them bankrupt every working person here in BC? Thats gordos agenda, to drive everyone into bankrupcy. Theres no way the people are going to be able to afford this. Already in the last couple of years the people have been really broke. So it seems rational that with this new tax it will only increse thier ability to pay. Thats grade 5 math.

I will take your word regarding grade 5 math mattyc - from the advanced logic that you present, it would appear that you have recently completed that level of schooling.

"Remember, taxes fund the services that everyone depends on."

Yeah, services like the Olympics, Sea to Sky Highway, Vancouver Convention Centre, and local schools. Okay, scratch that last one.

If it sucks so bad to live here, why not move? Listening to some people, it seems that anywhere would be better than BC.

You're right MrPG, but there IS a line.
And the HST crosses that line.
In fact,I firmly believe we were set up in the last provincial election.
Nobody can tell me that Campbell and Hansen didn't know they were going to drop the HST on us after telling us it was not on the radar.
But first,they wanted to win an election.
They new very well how the voters would react if they told us that before the election!
This government has lied to us before, and I can only assume they will do it again.
Right now,I think they are lying about the overall impact the HST will have on seniors and lower income people just for starters.
I think they know more than they are telling and I don't trust them.

So are you telling me that if (when) the HST gets passed, the 85% of the people who were against it will leave the province? That would be interesting to see.

Does anyone know if there is a central location in Nechako Lakes, (Vanderhoof, Fort Fraser, Fraser lake.) that the petition can be by signed ?

Thats right Andy, once a liar always a liar!

Typical MrPG logic, don't fight for whats right or what you believe in, just accept it or leave your home. The go'vt is doing exactly what needs to be done. Everyone needs to stay bent over because MrPG is and he has no problem with it.

Always defending the gov't MrPG. Whats with that?

Always whining and complaining Dragonmaster, what's with that?

Mattyc
I have been trying to decide whether I will sign or not. After reading your first post I am leaning more towards not signing.
If you truly are not going to buy in BC, maybe you should consider moving to where you are going to buy from.

Exactly the reply anticipated MrPG.

A bit off topic, but I need to post this as it's in reference to Lotteries and Casinos in BC, and it was referred to at the top of this thread.

Quotation:

"No new casinos! We don't want an economy based on losers. There will be no further expansion of gambling. We'll try to reduce it."

Gordon Campbell, 1999

Add that one to the pile of lies that Gordon Campbell is accumulating.

Amen to that Pylot Project!
And that's only one of the lies on a very long list!

"Exactly the reply anticipated MrPG."

Glad I could oblige.

As for casinos, if they can't gamble here, they'll gamble someplace else or online.

My opinion is that gambling is going to exist whether we like it or not and if people are going to do it, I'd rather they do it at a BC Casino than flying to Vegas or wherever.

And to all the haters out there (and you know who you are), you will one day come to the conclusion that ALL governments lie, change their minds based on new info, and otherwise flip-flop on various issues. This is not unique to Gordon Campbell or the Liberal Party, nor has it been for hundreds of years.

If you think everything is going to change once a new party (or leader) comes into power, I have a bridge to sell you.

"And to all the haters out there (and you know who you are), you will one day come to the conclusion that ALL governments lie, change their minds based on new info, and otherwise flip-flop on various issues. This is not unique to Gordon Campbell or the Liberal Party, nor has it been for hundreds of years"

I don't think anyone really thinks otherwise MrPG. Why is it you try to have everyone believe it's ok and they might as well give up trying to change things for the better. You'd prefer everyone to just roll over and accept what our gov'ts do.
That'd be the wrong thing to do.

Over 100,000 signatures have been collected in the first week of the HST petition...Nanaimo has already surpassed their 10% by a mile...Peace river area(oil n gas country) has already surpassed their 10% total....Powell river sunshine coast is over halfway there!


Read more here...


http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/2010/04/hst-to-rescue-not.html

You need more information...Read this..

Today it has been revealed that Colin Hansen`s finance department started negotiating the HST with the federal government the day after the May 12/2009 election!!!!!

So much for the BS that it wasn`t on their radar...

Get a life Mr. PG.....You are the problem,your ilk...How much lube do you use?

Read the shocking story here!

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/BC-Politics/2010/04/15/TaxTalk/

"Why is it you try to have everyone believe it's ok and they might as well give up trying to change things for the better."

I said nothing of the sort. In life, you have to pick your battles. For some people on this site everything is a battle.

If you believe the HST is the be all end all, good for you. Fight it if you must. Just don't try to convince me that you are the ultimate authority on everything and I 'must' take action because you said so.

As for my buddy Grant G, time to get a life and read other websites besides thetyee. Good for you, you found a website that agree with your point of view. The real challenge is taking in all information (even ones that differ from your view) and coming to your own conclusions. Don't let thetyee do it for you. Can you do that? Probably not.

In my mind; it’s about registering a protest. Debate over the HST should be more than the smoke and mirrors logic of "it will be good for business" or "the savings will be passed along"; try follow those dollars. Following the additional tax costs associated with HST implementation is just as speculative.
It’s is a given that taxes are essential in civilized society; my issue with the HST is how our provincial authority to implement tax is subjugated to Ottawa. From implementation day onward, forever; two levels of government, both with their finger of blame pointing to the “other guy” will determine our provincial tax rate.
Imagine that being good for us and future British Columbians when pure politics is driving the bus.

Went down to 3rd Ave and signed my protest. Didn't want to miss them coming around to the house.

Mr. PG....The link to the Tyee isn`t the issue,.....

The story at the Tyee is from ...Drum roll please..

From a freedom of information request to the federal finance department..

800 pages were "whited out"..but,

There is smoking gun proof that Colin Hansen`s finance department immediately after the election started the final agreement with Ottawa over a HST deal!

It`s not an opinion piece, it`s the facts,no spin, it`s more smoking gun proof that the HST was already a done deal before the election...Gordon Campbell and Colin Hansen LIED,you hear me Mr. PG..LIED about the HST during the election and they lied about the massive $3.5 billion dollar deficit!

Gordon Campbell has NO MANDATE to implement the HST...

And that`s why Mr. PG nobody believes a word out of your mouth, you are not respected,you are either PAB, or a good little toadie, either way you can lie to me but you can`t lie to yourself!

Sorry I meant petition

"And that`s why Mr. PG nobody believes a word out of your mouth, you are not respected,you are either PAB, or a good little toadie, either way you can lie to me but you can`t lie to yourself!"

You can see that some people are truly threatened by other people's opinions, and Grant falls into that category. Scary stuff.

My opinion is that gambling is going to "exist whether we like it or not and if people are going to do it, I'd rather they do it at a BC Casino than flying to Vegas or wherever."

So that only applies to non-consumptive activities?

An illicit activity is only an illicit activity due to a law being passed. Whether it is right or not does not matter. The fact of the matter is that there are numerous prohibited activities that folks want to participate in and do regardless (irregardless?) of its legal status.

You ave argued strenuously for the continued prohibition of a ditch weed, yet you can accept people falling into the known addiction of gambling with the governments support and all its known and proven hazards. Your rationale is that it keeps the money in the region rather than having that currency exported. The same argument applies to our long running debate.

You slipped on this one.

Viva La Non-Partisan Party!

MrPG - you are the one that suggested that if one doesn't like the HST one should move elsewhere. Just who is threatened by other peoples' opinions? Take a look in a mirror, if you can stand it.

MrPG - you are the one that suggested that if one doesn't like the HST one should move elsewhere. Just who is threatened by other peoples' opinions? Take a look in a mirror, if you can stand it.

MrPG - you are the one that suggested that if one doesn't like the HST one should move elsewhere. Just who is threatened by other peoples' opinions? Take a look in a mirror, if you can stand it.

sorry bout the triple post-opinion 250 hung up and i posted again

Loki, gambling is legal. Alcohol is legal. Pot is not. That is the difference, whether you agree with that or not.

Wow herbster, you must think that I have a pretty high opinion of myself if a suggestion I make in a post actually causes people to move from their homes. Unlike many on this site, I do not have any delusions of grandeur regarding my posts. You can take them or leave them. I couldn't care less.

Maybe we need a PRO HST campaign

Careful with that kind of talk, He spoke, you don't want to get the surly mob after you.

;)

mrpg - TROLL?

That is the main point that I have been making. Legality is a matter of legislation only. At one time not too long ago, gambling was illegal in BC except for lotteries and special facilities like the horse tracks. With enough pressure, change was made. Now it is legal and accessable.

No one is forced to gamble, it is a permitted choice. Some people still consider gambling to be less than desirable activity, but it is now legal so they must accept that it is permitted.

In the end, all it takes is a concerted effort by the populace to force a desired change. That is the empetus for this HST petition, for the current events in Thaiwan and for my own personal crusade. You have been shown the surveys and the statistics to support that a majority of Canadians want what I want. On this rare occasion I happen to be in the majority, discrete though it may be.

It is the freedom of choice that most of us want. Very few want a true nanny state. Most want public safety. The question becomes: how much do we need to protect oursleves from ourslves?

Back to the main topic, this hst will happen. Doesn't matter if we get enough names or what. This was preordained before 1991, Saskatewan was merely the first to fall. Sure, our current crop of party in power did know about it and did deny it was even there. They did not start it. Every one takes orders from someone, and Campbell is no different.

I still signed the petition, because we cannot expect change with out effort.

lastly:
Please stop name calling and personal attacks. It does not add to the debate. It takes away from your own argument and lessens the validity of your opinion. MrPG has a definite attitude that is intended to give you a rub. He does occasionally have fair arguments for his contrary position and we need all sides in a debate. That is how consensis is built. I just wish he/she/it would expand a little more with his rationale.

Boy this is not rocket science. I have not seen or heard of a politician in a long while who did not lie through his/her teeth while bending you over to grab your ankles.
If you believe everything you see a politician do and nothing they say you will be well on your way to actually being able to understand how they operate.
Now having said that the reason they must increase taxes and user fees is because they have squandered the money they presently have coming in from all revenue sources and they need a massive infusion of cash. Things like 2010 Olympics and Fast Ferries and a hundred other money sucking schemes that benefit a few while the masses have to cough up the dough to pay for it all have put us into massive debt. Politicians do not have a desire to see anyone of us suffer. They are not out to break the people of this province or any other province intentionally. But that is what is happening as the tax their way to prosperity. So now they don't have enough for the basics such as the medical care system, roads and infrastructure and the things they should really be looking after as well as line their own pockets as well. Will the stop paying for the core services. Not on your life. They would have a revolution. But they will also not stop with the corporate dole and making sure they get their fair share of the public trough as well.

That is why they must find even more creative ways to fleece the taxpayer.
If you look at a politicians much the same as you would a Mafia Boss you would not be too far off the mark. It is just a little different type of crime. Sort of white collar crime with no ring around the collar.

Loki: "That is the main point that I have been making. Legality is a matter of legislation only."

That's a pretty important point. It determines whether you go to jail or not. For the record, I have never advocated that pot should be illegal forever, just made the point that the chance of it ever being legal in our lifetime are slim and none. There is a difference.

Loki: "Please stop name calling and personal attacks. It does not add to the debate. It takes away from your own argument and lessens the validity of your opinion. MrPG has a definite attitude that is intended to give you a rub. He does occasionally have fair arguments for his contrary position and we need all sides in a debate. That is how consensis is built. I just wish he would expand a little more with his rationale."

I totally agree. Many times people have resorted to name calling, and that's when you can tell they've run out of coherent things to say.

It's too bad that people cannot have different points of view without being attacked.

Whoa...c'mon you guys...group hug!
;-)

So...we now know that the Liberal finance dept.were communicating with the feds in regards to the HST as early as May 15.
Hmmm...and when was the election again?
Of course Hansen says he didn't do it...no,no...it was the people in the finance who just took it apon themselves to do this....
Sure Colin...sure.
As usual,Campbell has nothing to say.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that,yes,we WERE in fact lied to.
I also noticed that Campbell looked and sounded,well...a bit "testy" on the news, in regards to the Kash Heed mess,which just keeps getting worse, by the way.
Hearing footsteps are we Gordon?
And while it may not stop the HST,my guess is Campbell's caucus is going to eat him and a couple of his hit squad...soon.
No point in everyone drowning along with the skipper when the ship is going down!

Lets concentrate on getting as many valid signatures on the Petition as we can.

Civil disobedience, or boycotts, "Red Shirts", general strikes, etc., are all things that are entirely pre-mature. And, at this point, a call for actions that will register with many of our potential supporters as being those of the immature. And lose us their much needed support.

We have a unique opportuinty before us here to successfully refuse a tax, and do it entirely within the Law as it now stands. And we CAN do it, if we don't unwittingly blow it.

Don't play into the hands of Gordon Campbell, who is just waiting for an excuse that a descent into anything that resembles "mob rule" will give him to have his way through being seen as the upholder of legal due process.

Lets give it our all, legally, and not ease up after we've reached the 10% threshold, plus a margin for error. But go on far beyond that.

If we could mobilize over 50% signatures of those on the Voter's list in well over half the ridings there is no way the Liberal MLAs could vote FOR the HST if they choose to hold a vote on it in the Legislature instead of taking it to a Referendum. Not and still claim to be "OUR" representatives.

WE can beat this tax if we stay the course. Just let "the People" make their own choice, without any intimidation or coercion, simply by affording them the opportuinty to sign the Petition if they so wish.

Do your civic duty - BOYCOTT SAVEON Foods.

Everyone has their own idea of the best way to stand up for their freedom and democracy. Signing the reverse petition is one tool.
However, I am quite proud of this way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V86zV5vSUtU

Socredible has it right. We can talk all we want on these posts about our different opinions etc;, but at the end of the day we need to get off our asses and sign the petiton.

The last thing we need to happen is for people to become complacent.

I think it is pretty obvious that we have been duped by this Government. Not only on BC Rail, but on Gambling, and now the HST. There is of course a lot more, but who has the time to discuss it.

We are dealing with a **spent** Government. They are just starting to realize that they pushed things to far this time around, and they are now going to pay a price for it.

People from every walk of life from 20 year olds to 80 year olds are walking to the petition stations and signing the petitions. Not one of them have a good thing to say about this Government.

This petition is morphing into a tax revolution, and so it should.

I am not interested in the musings of Mr PG mainly because they lack depth. As an example to state that if we didnt build casinos here people would go to Vegaa. That is pure unadulterated BS. Most people would not go to Vegas, and they wouldnt gamble. They would find something else to do. Putting out this kind of anemic crap is beyond my comprehension.

Does Mr PG know that the local Casino takes in approx $46 Million per year. Am I to beleive that the people in the Central Interior would go to Vegas and spend $46 Million every year. Not on your bloody life.

Many other observations by MrPG have the same leaky interpretations of a situation.

My advice to all the Citizens of BC. Totally disregard all the BS you are going to hear in the next few months, and sign the petition. They need all the help and all the signtures they can get.

This is no easy task, and volunteers are knocking on doors day after day all over the Province. This petition gives you a great opportunity to tell the Goverment to back off on the taxes, and get fiscally responsibilit or get the hell out of Politcs.

Have a nice day.

"Does Mr PG know that the local Casino takes in approx $46 Million per year. Am I to beleive that the people in the Central Interior would go to Vegas and spend $46 Million every year. Not on your bloody life."

You forgot online gambling, which is a big money maker.

"Many other observations by MrPG have the same leaky interpretations of a situation."

"I am not interested in the musings of Mr PG mainly because they lack depth."

Gee, thanks for your support.

I would hope that people do their own research and make their own decisions rather than listening to the self-proclaimed experts on this site.

I have signed the petition. I went down to their office at 1705-3rd Ave. this past afternoon.

MrPG, if you were to move from British Columbia, would you still receive your Provincial Political Pension from the tax payers of British Columbia??? Just wondering Bruce.

And as for your comments about gambling here, versus going to places outside of British Columbia, your opinion is ridiculous, but it is your opinion, and you are entitled to that! Most people that gamble here in Prince George could not afford to go to Las Vegas. Get bloody real man. They take a cab to the casino here, do you suppose they would take a cab to Las Vegas from here? (I could only wish)

Anyway, enough print wasted on MrPG. Get out and sign the petition. We can and will make a difference.

"MrPG, if you were to move from British Columbia, would you still receive your Provincial Political Pension from the tax payers of British Columbia??? Just wondering Bruce."

Bruce? You mean Bruce Strachan? Somebody also accused me once of being John Rustad. Both wrong.

"Most people that gamble here in Prince George could not afford to go to Las Vegas."

They couldn't? I would say that a couple of weeks of gambling losses could pay for the flight down there. There is a lot of money in this town, despite what many people think. As palopu noted, $46 Million dollars floated into the local casino. That's a lot of disposable income.

Good luck to the petitioners. I think the HST is a done deal anyway, but go ahead and sign it for what it's worth.

Thanks, Palopu. In the coming weeks we'll likely see a massive amount of our supposedly scarce tax-dollars diverted into pro-HST propaganda by Gordon Campbell's government.

About how we "need the HST to remain 'competitive'" (with Ontario, of all places), and the rest of the world. About how much "investment" it will attract, and how many new "jobs" will be created. And a plethora of similar spin, packaged in a way that's the "best that money could buy". Our 'money'

Consider what you will be "told" carefully, those of you who have not made up your minds on signing the Petition, or have not already done so.

Consider just "where" and "what in" BC is already competing with Ontario. And "where" we might ever likely be.

Do we have a large auto industry here, with steel-mills, and attendent components manufacturing plants? How about aero-space? Or the production of household appliances? Do we have the proximity to market and other natural advantages Ontario enjoys in these long-established industries? Would the Federal government 'subsidise' some of them here, in the same way it does there?

Does Ontario export the 'same' kinds of lumber into the 'same' export markets we do? Or is their lumber industry substantially different than ours, making different species into different products for different markets than those we supply?

Are there coal mines, and oil wells, and natural gas installations in Ontario that will suddenly become more competitive with the ones here? Where are they?

Are "investors" going to invest in new pulp and paper mills there, rather than here, just because they have a tax advantage under HST? When the fibre-base there is already maxxed out?

Consider what you will be "told", as "fact", often backed up by "studies" authored by some "economist" with numerous letters after his name indicating he's spent most of his life in school. Not out in the 'real' world where the 'money' for that tax, and all others that have likely helped keep him there, has to be earned and paid.

Consider that "economics" has never been, nor ever could be, a "science". It is based on 'predictions'. Ones gathered from 'figures' often more suspect than not in what they even represent. The ONLY 'figures' that matter are the ones used by the "accountant". Not those of the "economist". And the ones that relate to the accounting of government finances are far, far different from the way that accounting relates those 'figures' to private enterprises and all of us as individuals.

"Seek, and ye shall find", as the old saying goes. And don't fall for the same old line of b.s. packaged in a less odiferous manner without opening it up and taking a good whiff first. Inside the package it still stinks just the same.