it was said "the gasification of creosoted railroad ties...would produce less than a fraction of the amount of the pollution of pulp mills... That being said the logic is that when polluted air goes up in fractions, our taxes shouldn't matter to us when they go up in fractions (communicated to us in percentages for better digestion, I guess). An increase in either item will not fly. Taxpayers and air breathers don't like increases of either. Make a memo.

"The Regional District of Fraser Fort George has prepared an industrial land development study which targets several sites outside the bowl area of Prince George as possible suitable sites for future industrial use"
One such site is just North and West of the community of Salmon Valley. It overlooks the Salmon River, and is really still close to the airshed over the city because of the river valleys. This is plain and obvious when the wind blows from the south and east, you can smell the pulpmilss and refinery in the Salmon Valley community. We fought the re-zoning of that parcel of land from agricultural to industrial, a few years ago. The Regional District tried to keep it quiet, but someone found the small, inconspicuously placed mandatory sign advising of the application. You could see the sign from the highway, but could not read the lettering unless you stopped and walked through the ditch to the edge of the forest. A protest was organized, and the opinions of those concerned were noted at the poorly advertised meeting that the regional district held. I am not sure where the matter lies today, or whether or not they successfully changed the zoning.
metalman.

Dearth@Care to specify some of the alleged lies by PACHA? As far as I can tell, the information they provide is accurate.

Dearth .... Back up your statment. It is easy to say the earth is flat. Prove it! Jump off the edge! :-)

Formaldehyde in the millar addition it was widely reported on yet no one reported that the tests were corrupted and botched. The results were readily available off the BC misistry of environment yet no one wanted to print the truth. The company that took the samples did not follow their own sampling guidelines, mishandled the samples, waited too long to do the tests and to top it off introduced it to a non sterile environment before testing. Any of the above listed would automatically nullify the test results yet it was never reported in the papers til about 3 weeks after PACHA made asses of themselves.

Remember the bucket brigade where Pacha was going to put buckets all over to collect samples and they were so adamant that they were going to catch heavy industry polluting that they were surprised when residential neighbourhood buckets recorded more pollution than heavy industry and guess what since the big fanfare of the bucket brigades nothing more has every been heard of from it.

Dave Fuller will emphatically deny he ever said this about 4-5 yrs ago but it was reported in the Citizen, Free Press and PG this week he demanded that heavy industry shut down operations on bad air quality days and on medium quility days heavy industry run at reduced rates it is all there in black and white on threes separate papers.

From the Misistry of environment(2007) the total amount of polution per yer put ou by heavy industry totals about 15% over 50% of total polution comes from residencial, vehicles and sweeping operations.

People want to blame the pulp mills for everything but all that supposed smoke you see in the mornings and cold days is almost 95% steam and water condensation very little is polution and the pulpmills are monitered 24/7 by several different ministries and environmental groups that if a spill or release of polution would be blasted on the front pages of every paper immediately and how often has that happened in my 15+ yrs here I know of 4 times it has made news.

This whole concept of locating the creosoting tie burning operation in Prince George is a lot of to do, about nothing.

Unless someone can confirm that the 250,000 creosoted ties that belong to CP Rail will be shipped to Prince George via CN Rail, then I suspect that this is a dead issue.

CP Rail would naturally want this plant located on their lines so that they can ship the ties to the site a little or no cost. Thats why Kamloops was being considered. I suspect that they will now look at another CP Rail location in the Province.

Without the ties you have no plant.


Rest easy.

Dearth, you wrote: “Formaldehyde in the millar addition it was widely reported on yet NO ONE REPORTED THAT THE TESTS WERE CORRUPTED AND BOTCHED.”

Did it ever cross your mind that the reason they didn’t is because they do not know that? Did it ever cross your mind that they are doing tests now to see why the tests may have given those results? No one knows whether those tests were, in a sense, false positives. Unlike you, most of us are mere mortals and must go through objective scientific examination when something that is unexpected happens.

Read some of the reports at http://air.swdbox.com/resources-reports#top

Specifically this one which was released in February 2010. http://air.swdbox.com/uploads/files/pdf/PGAIR_CAC_MoEPresentation_2010-02-23.pdf

VOCs – these have typically not been measured because they were thought to be present at safe levels.
• Slide 38 shows the two formaldehyde readings on two separate days at two separate locations. Note that they do not say anything about the readings being wrong. In fact, it goes on to identify the additional testing.
• Slide 37 shows high readings for Methyl Ethyl Ketone on 5 of 6 readings
• Slide 36 shows PG to be second highest of 30 sites in Canada for isoprene
• Slide 35 shows PG the highest for camphene, in fact three times as high as the next one of 30 sites in Canada
• Slide 34 shows PG the highest for beta-pinene, in fact 6 times as high as the highest one of 30 sites in Canada
• Slide 13 shows PM2.5 from 1998 to 2008. From 2000 to 2005 there were 4 years of averages exceeding the standard. They went up in a relatively smooth change from 27 to a max of 36 and then back down again to 23. People did not heat their houses more and then drop down again, they did not drive to work more and then drop down again. What you will find is that they reflect the business change of the lumber industry as it geared up to flood the US market in reaction to the countervailing duties and the housing demand, and the subsequent downturn of that industry and the closing of plants and reduction in industrial traffic. Did anyone read this in the paper? Of course not! Not from PACHA, not from the MoE, not from UNBC.
• Slide 12 shows all reporting of PM2.5 in the black in 2008 for the reason identified above.
• Slide 8 shows PM10 exceedances. Look at BCR (396 over 17 years); Plaza (208 over 16 years); Gladstone (48 over 12 years). BCR=industrial. PLAZA = commercial + effect of River Road and Pulp Mill road industries; Gladstone= residential (but it is directly opposite the BCR and can be affected by the BCR across the Fraser depending on the air movement.
• Slide 7 shows PM10 and 2.5 against 47 other BC locations. PM10 – PG is second, sixth, and 19th highest; PM2.5 – PG is 2nd and 7th highest
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You wrote: “From the Misistry of environment(2007) the total amount of polution per yer put ou by heavy industry totals about 15% over 50% of total polution comes from residencial, vehicles and sweeping operations.”

All other cities in BC and in Canada and in the rest of the industrialized world have residences, vehicles and sweeping operations. Most in Canada put sand on the roads in winter. We are not abnormal. Where cities vary is the number of inversion days, the wind directions, and the nature, amount and location of industry. Those are the key variables. The Fraser Valley in the lower mainland is a good example of the flushing action of the wind blowing up the valley. Prince George is a good example of a high ratio of heavy industry to population, poor location of industry in relation to the city, and poor flushing action of the wind.
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You wrote: “People want to blame the pulp mills for everything but all that supposed smoke you see in the mornings and cold days is almost 95% steam and water condensation very little is pollution.”

What you say about the steam is true. But, look at the mills on a summer morning driving downtown from west of Ospika and you will be looking at blue emissions from the mills, no longer hidden by the steam. That is what also comes out all year long. On some days you can see it heading north, on other days south, and then there are the days when it is just not rising and being held in the bowl by an inversion. By the next day, if it continues, you will not be able to see it anymore because the bad air quality day is about to happen unless the weather changes.
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You wrote: "the pulpmills are monitered 24/7 by several different ministries and environmental groups"

Actually they are not. The ministry has no money to do that. They are on a self reporting regime that reports the exceptions. If they have higher readings than they are permitted for, they are to report.

Does that surprise you? Go call the local MoE, or read the permits to see for yourself.

Of course, all that won’t convince people like you. We all live in our own little reality, don’t we?

"This whole concept of locating the creosoting tie burning operation in Prince George is a lot of to do, about nothing."

It might be, but if they continue to persue that, even though it could be done properly in the right location, it will be fun to see if they botch the public relations part the same as the City did with the Community Energy plant.

Maybe they have learned their lesson.

The community Energy Plant a an ill conceived project at best. There are no benefits whatsoever for the residents of Prince George.

This is a huge waste of taxpayers dollars that could be better spent in other areas of the City.