I can see your point, Ben. But I still think we have to start somewhere!

I agree whatintheheck...
Ben you mentioned that it's cheaper to rent than to pay mortage but you failed to also point out, so let me, that you are literally throwing money away by paying rent if you could be paying a mortage...realestate is an investment not a waste of money like paying rent. Also what is wrong w/ shopping at Parkwood? They have a huge drugstore and a great grocery store, movie theatres, clothing store, places to eat, coffee shops etc. There are quite a few stores downtown that I use i.e. Homework, stores on 4th ave, the northern (the only one you mentioned) and as you said great restaurants. I usually agree w/ you but i really feel you missed the mark on this one in a big way, but that is just my opinion.

Oh and the statistics on empty rental property, I feel, does not have an effect on properties that are for sale. Different market.

Ben, you forgot monthly condo fees.

Again, an investment...what about the condo's just off of 6th (by Hope Heinrich) aren't these doing well?

We spent years looking for a condo in the downtown area and we looked at the ones that are currently for sale in the crescents. The only reason we never bought one is they are in need of renovations. A brand new condo downtown would have been ideal but currently don't exist.

Ben, clearly you don't like Condos but some of us do. If you want to check stats - check the market for the few condos that are near downtown. I think you may be suprised how quickly they move off the market on the rare occasion that they come on.

If your talking about putting them on the property that is across from the shelter on dominion, ha! There is no way I would buy or live in a condo there.

I also cannot see taxes being 200 a month. Your only paying for the structure - doesnt the strata pay the property tax on the actual land?
On a condo worth 300,000 in the lowermainland the property taxes are approx 1200 per yr with the grant. But the strata fees are around 200 per month.

Well the average rental costs listed for 2009/10 are a great deal! Most of the rental units in the hood are more than this! A good clean, safe rental unit in PG are way more than these listed. If I am wrong, help me find a better place for my senior mother!

"But I still think we have to start somewhere"

Yes. Show me a city where it started by building condos and getting private people to buy into living an area that has nothing to offer?

The condo/apartment on 6th and Vancouver is an exception that was built when things were a bit more stable and prices were quite a bit lower than now - almost half of what the same units sell for now. The Magnolia on Queensway and 22nd followed and never was completed. that should say something right there.

Apartments are being built on Ferry like crazy, but not downtown.

Metropolis failed to get off the ground. The one on the property where the community gardens failed to get off the ground. The one of Creuzot's on 7th between Vancouver an Winnipeg has failed to get off the ground for well over a decade. Gordon Bliss' attempt on the same property failed. He is now trying once more. I wish him luck. Let's watch it. Those are at least reasonably nice downtown residential neighbourhoods.

If you build so called quality into the units they go up by $50 to $100 thousand right away and one likely has priced themselves out of the market. The units are so expensive compared to the rentals available (albeit older stock) that one misses out on the market in some cities of investing in condos and putting them up for rent.

We start by doing what other cities do.

1. municipal, provincial, federal $ invested in downtown.

2. the government initiated development is tied with private money for the commercial side of the P3

3. the development is tied with conversion of some sort of the previous brownfied land use - industrial, railway, waterfront of some sort

4. the end use is a mixed use of as many uses as is possible - residential, commercial office, retail, education, hotel, entertainment, recreation, etc.

5. the city in general is growing in the suburbs while the downtown may have been left behind.

So ask yourselves how many of those conditions do we have?

1. there might be some investment from governments coming, but they have not moved yet.

2. there has been no indication that the government is working with some private developers

3. no waterfront reclamation, no industrial reclamation, no railway reclamation, nothing. The land exists at the right zoning. It has been there for decades ready to go. In any normal economic conditions it would have been developed a long time ago due to economic pressure.

4. The end use might be a mixed use, but no government is talking about that yet. The current DBIA is at least making an attempt that is much louder than anyone in recetn history. Even Cadillac Fairview's proposal of the 1980s was a single use - retail.

People can talk until they are blue in the face, but unless someone shows up with the ability to put their money where their mouth is, we will continue to struggle.

The last commercial building of any size downtown was Barton Insurance. Now we have Commonwealth's medical centre that is showing some activity. Let's see how well that does with sales/rentals.

The there are the Ramada grade level renovations. Let's see how well they do with their new restaurant facilities. Don't know how well Starbucks is doing in there. Does not seem to have too many lineups at coffee time and closes early.

You can buy a condo at the Willows for under a 200 grand and I've seen some languish on the market for a few months, so currently there does not seem to be much of a demand. Hopefully if new ones are built they will have some style and flare to them. The ones being built on Ferry and Westwood remind me of a rat maze.

I do hope I haven’t misled people with these comments. I’m not suggesting for a moment that condos do no interest people as a matter of fact , condos past Vancouver, Parkwood area or even in that proximity are an excellent idea , I am making my comments about the new DBIA catchment area, which is a much different kettle of fish in my mind. Will condos go for example at 3rd and George?

The condos on Ferry have no communal green space. That is a huge turndown for myself.

Third and George is probably the worst place unless they are intended for hermits.

I am assuming that people living in condos will want to walk/bike to work, walk/bike to get some gorceries for the day, go for a run in the morning, go for a stroll in some sort of green park area, go for a stroll along a street with other people to look at, sit down at an outdoor/indoor cafe.

At the moment, that location is about as far from most of those activities as one can get.

If the city is serious about the water feature between 6th and 7th avenue and a "greenway" connection from Queensway to the Fraser, then that is where some housing and other developments might have some success. But the City has to show that it is serious about that concept or anything else of that nature and follow up with their own and the province's investments. So far they have just accepted the SGOG plan and endorsed it in principle which means squat to an investor.

In fact, a less austentatious RCMP building in that area might even help. Queensway and Patricia are both good arterial roads to provide access for emergency services.

In spite of all that, if I had money to invest and felt there might be a market for condos near the downtown, I would start off adjacent to downtown - the Vancouver-Winnipeg corridor is ideal for that. The housing does not have to sit within the DBIA boundaries in order to bring any positive impact onto the DBIA area that people say the housing will bring.

I thought they were going to paint the pavement green. LOL

That Ferry Avenue development is the worst I have seen in many years. As if we do not have enough land in this city. That is what scares me about the potential "downtown" buildings. get buildings like that in there and it will set the downtown back another 20 years. In my mind, social housing would be better than that.

In fact, the low rent housing on rainbow at ospika is superior to that.