There will always be 'gangs' for the most part, they are losers that want to be 'cool', and the only way they can is to be important in the drug trade. The world will always have losers, because not everyone can be a winner and thus we will always have gangs. The problem arises when government contributes to the process by ham fisted ignorance in their social policy and policing tactics... but that's never really looked at. One prime example is the marijuana laws that enable organized crime to begin with... or the shear wast of resources making criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens through ICBC, while hard criminals are given free rein as a result of the space they are given... because the police don't have their priorities straight. All to often the focus is on making laws for everything and making it so that priorities become less of a priority in the process.

I'd like to see a study on how many gang bangers got into the business after having their lives ruined by the ICBC laws... I'll be willing to bet 90%+ got into the business after losing their ability to work a legitimate job. The police for the most part profile those they suspect deserve the punishment using unrealistic punishment for minor crimes creating the cycle to begin with. From there its all downhill. If they only went after the violent criminals and the hard drug dealers with the same zeal as they approach grow ops for example or 'speeders' we would see a lot less of the underworld activity finding futile ground out of desperation.

"...gang bangers got into the business after having their lives ruined by the ICBC laws...I'll be willing to bet 90%+ got into the business after losing their ability to work a legitimate job."

Are you serious?

The reason they do not have faith that the justice system can protect them is because we've seen it first hand.

I know I'd be hesitant to testify.

I would like to know the connection between ICBC and this.

There you have it folks, we can end the Gang Crime Summit now. Turn losers into winners, stop enforcing traffic laws, problem solved! If you think that "they" are not going after violent criminals and hard drug dealers with any "zeal" I suggest you study up a bit.
How do you suggest they get to the "hard drug dealers". More often than not, these grow ops supply people who are higher up the chain and deal in more than pot. Where do you think the majority of their information comes from?
I think we all know that more (and different) work needs to be done. Maybe that why "they" are holding a summit. You should have gone to tell them how to fix everything.

But then Anne Baines feels the same way when it comes to the little guy that gets assaulted on our streets and does nothing about it because she thinks it's not in the public interest. Isn't that correct Anne Baines?

I'm lost here. How is ICBC responsable for all this?

Eagleone has had a recent encounter with a traffic situation which he realted on this site. I am assuming he has personally had some problems in that direction. I will extend that assumption even further and say that it is often the situation that with an experience such as that the network of those who have had similar experiences is accessible and it will soon become a conspiracy.

The same can be said for WCB (WorkSafeBC) worker claims.

Hey Anne, take a break, yer goin in circles.
What people gotta do is get 10 Billion, yes,
Billion from the Feds and Province, throw it in to enforcement, and start raiding the gangs til they're pounded in to the ground, seize assets and proceeds and return it to the budget.
Yuh gotta figger, those gangs have a bottomless budget and we need to get some serious money to fight them with. Some of that can go to teaching our kids how to stay away from these idiots.
I don't really care if the police trample on some peoples rights in their raids, for the greater good, I'm all for it.

I'm lost here. How is ICBC responsable for all this?

Anne Baines is now a Crown Counsel??? Well I guess that's what happens then when a person can't hold down a real job. Even a lawyer's job. Crown takes you under its wing and says, "c'mon then, you can work for us." I remember a very serious judge being barely able to stifle his laughter when she was questioning me.

Hey Give:
Lets just take the easy way out and say
"She's employed by the Attorney General's
Ministry"

Normally I am merely amused by the eagleone diatribe. Today is little different except that he was trying to make a point that was missed despite the ham fisted approach.

I think what he is implying is that when the government attempts to address an issue, it tends to be the common citizen that pays the lion's share and the intended target of the legislation skates away through legal wrangling. He is currently having an issue similar to what I am going through.

It seems the BC government is so broke, they are tyrannically enforcing mundane and obscure legal avenues to generate funds. To whit, I happen to acquire two speeding tickets in the last two years, and two seat belt fines dating back to almost five years. Now they want to pull my license, have me take a safe driving course, and reapply for my license. All this comes with substantial fees of course. Now, I am not complaining about the tickets. I got busted and I took them graciously and the fines will be paid.

Yeah, HST will save us!
Yeah, corporate taxation has been shifted to the populace.
Yeah, Camberals remain in charge of the candy store.

Give anyone found in a grow-op five years no deal. That should slow things down, oh sorry the dope smoking liberal arts types won't like that.

Pretty soon all the "stuff" will be grown in California anyway and they will not be called grow ops. They will be called cash cows for the government.

Then, like the gambling casinos of Nevada and New Jersey, it will slowly move to the rest of the USA and Canada, like most of the things which start in the USA and especially California, good or bad.

Remember, the USA is still technically in a Drug War which has lasted how long ... decades and followed the Alcohol War which also ended in a conditional truce. :-)

Awe, the irresistible force argument.
It's going to be so let it be?

Of course I am pro decriminalization. Legalization still needs debate and specifics of how that would look.

Last i heard, as of 2009 it is $9 billion a year in BC.

Loki: You haven't paid your fines from five years ago??? Well what did you expect them to do, wait another five?? Don't go cryin' to us if you got yourself in more trouble by ignoring the problem. The information has been out there for quite awhile now that ICBC will collect any outstanding monies before renewing a license.

Seamutt: I like your ideas.

ICBC has become and extra judicial tyranny that takes peoples livelihoods from them and in many cases leaves them with no other option than to enter the underground economy to survive. I've seen it happen to countless otherwise law abiding people... little ten second indiscretions that cost a person everything.

Like Sgt. Al Stienhauser said on the Meisner program on October 6th... they only target 'people that can afford these tickets' namely young people with payments that look like they have money... putting them in positions of desperation.

For me on October 5th... I speed up for a notoriously fast yellow light... was far from doing anything excessive... I'm sure he targeted the truck in front of me, but I was the easier target to catch and looked to have a greater ability to pay. A clean drivers abstract.. a perfect driving record... no criminal record... a lawful member of society paying my taxes and bills.

The consequences were a $600 fine between the light (which I for sure cleared) and the 'excessive' which was marginal at best. A tow bill... an 15-day impoundment as I was unable to retrieve after the 8-days. ICBC wants their cut on the points... and ICBC always administers a 90 day suspension for any excessive or light related indiscretions... implications of which include a loss of my job... since its not lost due to work shortage a loss of EI illegibility... since one can not work or collect EI further implications... a loss of all assets like the house and vehicle... and since my fiancee is sponsored by me a potential deportation of my spouse when my bills fall into default. All in the name of public safety I guess.... Ten seconds of indiscretion carries a heavy price here in BC.

Since then I've talked to others that have received the same treatment... I don't plan to take the same options... for me I'll just liquidate what I can and move on to a place where my life can't be ruined by such extrajudicial bureaucratic insanity.

Its 'the people that can afford it' mentality of law enforcement that in 90% of the cases creates the conditions of desperation where people fall into these traps. RCMP in PG actively target young people that look like they have 'bling' I guess, because they are to lazy to do the real work and go after the real criminals when looking good on the revenue safety front gets them all their points. Its a cyclical trend they don't want talked about, because it keeps them employed with all the great new toys and buildings they want.

Just my opinion though... you will never see a study that addresses this issue.

No ICBC administrative suspension have nothing to do whether you paid your fines or not... one can not buy insurance if they haven't paid their fines... one year grace at best... if you pay ICBC the day you get the ticket, you are still subjected to the extra judicial ICBC process of drivers license suspension for tickets in the past or present... I've heard from one guy that got a 90-day suspension over a single speeding ticket. Cost him his job too... most people are too embarrassed to talk about it and simply move to Alberta. Others that can't move find alternate ways to get by in the meantime... often not the legal route.

At what point does an individual become a lost cause? Gangsters are unafraid of jail because they have protection from peers already there. I say its high time that all changed. Put in a 3 strikes rule - 3 felonies and you're deemed a lost cause, a failure at life and put down.

If a dog bites someone, it gets put down. If some scumbag guns down an (or several) innocent person, they get a government-sponsored gangster reunion in prison. Fix the system.

So maybe next time you won't speed up for a yellow light...
Just sayin

Eagleone....you may be on to something good ! Maybe we should invite all the gangsters to a party, give them a couple of free beer and have the highway patrol seizing their licences and fancy cars when they drive away. I think they have yellow lights and speed limits in Alberta too !

Eagleone: Ditto for me. People do not see that ICBC has been given all power regarding your personal property without trial, or council. They have assumed this power and passed it on the RCMP without a thought for the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The best example ever of portraying a socialist government legislating us into poverty and submission.
My father went to a war to ensure that I would have freedom and the right to a trial and council; with the stroke of a pen it is gone.
We should be organizing and rioting in the streets but we are too complacent.

Are you kidding me? Quit yer bitching eagleone. There was plenty of warning about the new IRP and VI sanctions coming before YOU caused the October 5 incident.

Instead of bitching why didn't you fight the VI in the approved manner? Did you request an adjudicator hearing? How did the officer judge your speed? Where was he in relation to your car? Did u not know that when the new laws were initiated, police were not supposed to be impounding for excessive speed for one month unless you were 50 over the limit...

So, instead of whining, fight it, or accept the fact that you were the cause of the matter and get over it.