I see we did our homework!! very good.
Now Enbridge can build this thing thru the U.S. ,they can have it!

Poof, enbridge shows us the middle finger, and we all sit back and wait for our welfare check..... Oh, what ya mean the province can afford to pay welfare, its our right..... but in reality, its a luxury. and we can't aford because we are not able to tax the pipeline companies.

I really don't think this is over.
In the end,as far as these bands are concerned,money will tell the tale, as it always does.
Enbridge simply hasn't offered enough yet.

I would like to see the pipeline, mainly because, we as Canadian will gain economic stability. We have more than one person to sell our oil too. Currently all of our oil is sold to the 'mericans. Like our Lumber, we should be looking at the world, to sell our products.

However, how much longer does a private company going to keep trying, it all cost money.

You know what I say, hire a bunch of rednecks with a shotgun, and fire up the Pettibone, start digging.

Cut-off their welfare and they will come begging for the pipeline.

Enough already

At this stage of the game ive got mixed views about this pipline. And im pro industry. Here is what im aksing myself. As an active stock investor (not in embridge)im looking at this from a different aproach rather then drawing a line in the sand saying Yes or NO..

1)Is it environmentally feasable? (At this stage Enbrige hasnt really given enough public information on how to mitigate a spill.) There is a risk here.. How big is it? Wait and see what the environmental review comes out with.

2)The economics.. What kind of long term revenue options will effect the communities along the pipe line? How well is Enbrige working with people in the commuinites?

3)First Nations..Dont have the right just to say flat out "No" without rationale and baseline studys in hand. Weather they like it, realize it, or not they are a part of global economy which they cant silo themselves out of for much longer. With the level of corruption within FN government i dont buy the story that the environment comes first..And on the other side of the coin we do have FN's that work for the common good of everyone..These FN's will be the key players in assessing the risk in this pipeline and not the ones out looking for a revenue grab.

4)At the end of the day... Who will benifit the most from this at the expense of others. We dont know this yet.

I agree He spoke.
I also agree with northman...I don't think the final say should be up to first nations.
Their word is NOT law.
It should be up to ALL British Columbians combined.

You have rationalized the situation very well, northman. I tend to agree with your opinions.

However, it is about howmuch stamina, embridge project leader has. I wonder if someone from embridge actually are reading this blog site???

"ban on oil tanker traffic off the BC North and Central Coast"

But the almighty lower mainland does not? The South Coast covers all of Vancouver Island as well. How is this justified?

There will still be tankers travelling from Alaska. Just because they are further out doesn't mean that oil won't reach our shores. It just means that when it does come it will be dispersed over a larger area.

And we will NOT be prepared when that does happen because we banned tankers from our waters. The money, supplies, and trained personel that would have been supplied by the oil companies as part of their transportation agreement will not be available.

Instead of saying "NO" why would they not work at finding a safe and economical way of making this work.

I guess they think shipping oil on rail cars to Vancouver is much better cause CN never has spills!

I would not be one least bit surprised if the FN is getting funding from the environmentalist groups (eg). the EG gets money from the big oil companies thru mysterious channels. All to stop us from selling oil to China and other nations.

The 'mericans wants our oil. They will do what ever it takes to get it. there are three ways to get it.

1) Employ tactics to stop us from selling it to anyone else, such as no pipeline

2) Buy up all the oil related companies and we sell it to the 'mericans.

3) Military invasion of our country, then there will be no such thing as the lower 48

He Spoke you have good intuition - it would appear they ARE getting funding from enviro groups - and those sources are American. These few older articles that were not widely distributed but certainly caught my attention as a concerned citizen wondering who really has a veto vote in this debate. They offer some suprising insight into aboriginal movement and funding sources.

This article outlines many suprising funding sources and tracked a payment of about $27 million to 2 BC coastal first nations to fight enbridge (that's a good payday)
http://www.financialpost.com/cash+sands/3675309/story.html

And this one sheds a bit more light on the funding groups roots as well. We ought to be concerned about this information as Canadians and asking WAY more questions about it

http://www.financialpost.com/related/topics/charity+with+plenty+very+long+tentacles/3859570/story.html

First off, where in the article does it mention FN welfare? That is a stereotypical racist assumption.

Second, they don't have the final say. What they do have is the key land Enbridge wants to cross, and they are now standing-up for themselves instead of allowing themselves to be stomped by superior forces. Nowadays the FN have learned that they cannot meet might with might. What they can do is insist that their land (as agreed to by all levels of government) is theirs to control. If they don't want to risk their lands, they have not only the right but the responsibility to see that their land is not trespassed by any entity whether it be a government, a corporation or an individual. It does not matter if it is economically or environmentally feasible, it is their decision based on their criteria, not the rest of the country.

Third, the "long term economic benefits for the local communities along the pipeline" is nil, zilch, nothing, zero. Once it is built, it will sit there and flow product without much local interaction. That is until a breach occurs, Then they will send in, read that as import labor, THEIR trained personnel. It's not like they are going to call the local community and expect that community to have the requisite skills and technology on the spot. That is preposterous.

Five "tribes" refuse? From what I read in the National Post yesterday, money DOES talk! Nuff said.

As Capitalistic as I am, and also selfish for the needs of the north. I would like to see the oil line go thru, not strictly for the benefit of the north, but as a national investment, this makes us a lot less dependent on what the 'mericans demands are.

Its a pipeline, If they want to they can have the whole thing built in two years or less. The money is not in the building of it. The money is in the maintenance and the taxation of this line. We tax it so it benefits our economy, period. It will be a bunch coke high albertans that are gonna run a plow thru the land and bury a straw in the ground.

We rant and rave about the environment, yet we are grateful about the furnace kicking into heat our homes. Hey wake up, those gas lines are close 60 years old.

A new more suprising article on funding for this anti-pipeline campaign and first nations involvement. He spoke you are good to be wary of who is really behind this all.

http://www.financialpost.com/news/energy/Demarketing+Alberta/3984670/story.html

It is their treaty designated land. They own it with total control. No one may do anything on that land without their permission.

As to the tax situation, I have no idea. Whether gramps pissed on it sixty years ago or not is not relevant. It is treaty reservation land owned by the band/tribe/clan granted to them by the Canadian government on behalf of the victorious euro settler invaders.

Are you really that ignorant of history and the makeup of Canadian culture or are you just racist?

I guess a little of both if you must know.

We do not own the land. We hold a piece of paper saying that we have the right to use this land, according to what the regulations allows us to use it for. We only have the top three feet of it, and 500 feet of air space. Real estate really is only about 4 to 5 hundred years old. This happened when the royalties of England need to raise money, thus started to draw lines on a piece of paper.

So likely when the Government of Canada allowed the first nation to use the land, they gave it to them to harvest a living off of the surface. The First nation did not mine for gold or copper, they did not drill for oil. They lived very primitively, when the government allowed them the use of the area.

The reason why the first nation had no problems offering the land to the evil white scurge, for a hand full of beads. Was because the value of the area was in the buffalo's and game that was on it. Thus they believed it was the land they gave to the evil white scurge, but the animals were free to roam. Thus they felt that it was a sweet deal for them. They have the beads, and the animals that roam of the lands they gave away.

When all is said and done, I don't own the land, I have permission to use this little piece. The First nation don't own the land, they also have a permission to use it.... with out paying the majesty or taxes. Essentially it is our Federal Government that owns it. If the Federal Government wants to build a Highway thru the middle of your living room, guess what they will make you an offer, if you refuse, they will expropriate your property, the courts will determine your compensation, which will be less than the initial offer. That is the real facts, all this posturing around is because, they are not ready to pull the trigger on it.

Actually the Canadian government is making racists out of people by giving special deals to different groups of people. I always thought we were ALL CANADIAN Citizens, but apparently we are not. The ones with the loudest mouths are getting the special deals, such as the indians.
And of course prosperity is a DIRTY WORD, as long as the rest of the population keeps paying taxes that is!!
Maybe it's time to cut them all off from subsidies and finally let them look after themselves like their forefathers did for 1000's of years...........back to the stone age!!

He Spoke says..."We rant and rave about the environment, yet we are grateful about the furnace kicking into heat our homes. Hey wake up, those gas lines are close 60 years old."

Hey wake up, natural gas pipelines don't have any potential to leak crude oil or condensate!
I've seen you make similar comments here before regarding natural gas pipelines.

You obviously don't understand the difference between crude oil, condensate and natural gas do you?

If a natural gas pipeline leaks, what happens.
If a crude oil or condensate pipeline leaks, what happens?

Please stop comparing the two in your lame arguements.

Sure I do, Oil is the black sticky stuff that goes on the land and water, and it costs millions of dollars to clean up.

Natural Gas, when it leaks, goes into the environment with huge pressure behind us, and we can not clean it up. It will dissipitate into the environment and likely burn a hole in our ozone. If it does not get ignited before hand.

How accurate is my assessment, Master Dragon

Ok i'm sick of hearing how some claim that this is their land....I own a chunk of this planet also! Genesis 1:26 and in short it reads
" And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
So this is the way it was written and i think i need to scream the "My Religious right is being Discriminated! One group is being favoured and the Charter Of Rights protects me from Religious discrimination! I just may seek legal advice on this.If anyone thinks taht this is a little strange, then ask yourself this," On what grounds do they base their claim?"

he spoke: a courageous admission even though facetious.

Sorry, Loki. But that is about the most I can offer.

Merry Christmas

One should never apologize for being them self as long as no one gets hurt.

Back at you.

Great comments Loki..... it looks like you made a little headway.

But really, when someone talks about First Nations people and the 'special deals' they are getting, it becomes near impossible to think that you can rationalize with someone so out of touch with reality and history.

A new more suprising article on funding for this anti-pipeline campaign and first nations involvement. He spoke you are good to be wary of who is really behind this all.

http://www.financialpost.com/news/energy/Demarketing+Alberta/3984670/story.html

All you folks are funny. This oil is going to China. China is very aggressively building up their military, why? Japan is getting quite concerned. China is also quite aggressively moving into Africa for its resources and other areas of the world. Going to be interesting watching that growing elephant in the room.

I suppose Japan should be getting worried. They have been abusing the neighbours for the last 1000 years. Needless to say, that is why North Korea would rather send the nuke to Japan than South Korea.

I don't think it is a matter of a growing elephant. I think they have many herds of these elephants that are full grown.

At what point in the generations of first nation should they become submerged into the mainstream life of being a Canadian citizen. Then be treated as a Canadian first, than a first nation 2nd.

How much longer can our country sustain three different identities.
1) Canadians
2) French Canadians
3) First Nations.

I hope, I see it in my life time.

Merry Christmas to you Chris.

He spoke:

"I would not be one least bit surprised if the FN is getting funding from the environmentalist groups (eg)."

-It could be hard to call them out on this..and i really wouldnt be all that surprised if this was the case. However the fed govt has a funding program for them to complete study's of their own during an environemental reveiw process. called "participant funding".

http://www.ceaa.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=E33AE9FB-1

For example $50,000 was awarded to First Nations groups for the Mt Milligan project. With so many people involved in the Embrige project there would have to be more money up for grabs for partcipant funding.

http://www.ceaa-acee.gc.ca/050/document-eng.cfm?document=34412

With these kinds of funding options available for special interest groups there is absoloutly no excuse that anyone can come back and say there was lack of consultation and participation during an environemental review. Even if a project gets rejected at least these options have been excercised instead of drawing a line in the sand saying "NO" to a project.

Dragonmaster: wrote..

"If a natural gas pipeline leaks, what happens."
"If a crude oil or condensate pipeline leaks, what happens?"

-First answer is Kaabbbbooooommmm and hope there are survivors.

-Second answer is everyone lives and someone has to clean up.

At least with an oil spill you can outrun the damn thing instead of having the potential of getting blown to bits.

Touche, Northman.

Whether we are pumping oil or natural gas, it still is just a steel pipe in the ground. one little pin hole scratch on the coating and it starts the rust. Cathode protection or not, eventually it will erode.

Spectra, only can monitor the rate of decay on the lines to determine when to replace a section.

Eventually mother nature reclaims everything, even solid concrete reduces back down to dust, sand and rock.

Think about, in the last 4 billion years, our planet has lost nothing more than possibly about 5000 lbs of materials, which we have sent out past our gravitational pull. Even the satelites we send up, eventually all comes down to planet earth.

Your first comments northman were quite fair. What concerns me is that quite a few people seem to feel they have the right to criticize without taking the energy to learn more about what is proposed. We have oil and gas pipeline all over. What is different about this one?

People, you need to ask yourself what are you against? What is the real issue for you? What you need to look at is What measures are in place to prevent a spill?
Are these measures satisfactory?
What types of guarantees do we need Enbridge or any other company to put in place before the project is acceptable?

Absolutely correct Don

are there any other pipelines in northern bc?

First off this is not an Enbridge pipeline. This is a Gateway pipeline managed by Enbridge. Gateway is a vehicle funded by PetroChina to have Enbrdige sell the pipeline and its construction to Canada. Chinese agents in this regard include our former mayor their paid politician on the job.

The pipeline has nothing to do with energy security here in Canada. We have the energy already. Our fridges will stay cold, and our houses warm, and our cars full of fuel regardless of what this project does for North American infrastructure.

This pipeline will enable export capacity to ensure we can be forced to bid for our own natural resources at the world rate making a mockery out of sovereignty of our energy cost security. Our globalists in corpocracy will give this to the Chinese to make the market. We already have a semi closed energy market with America, and it makes better sense to export it there... the globalists be damned with their open market pricing...

The Chinese billions will be willing to pay far more than we can afford for the small amounts they individually require with the funny money they get from subsidizing their currency with environmental degradation and slave labor.

The end result is we pay more as we compete for our own energy to heat our homes... how you say... how do we pay more to heat our homes if we build a pipeline to export tar sands... tar sands require natural gas to separate the tar from the sand to get oil. Huge amounts of gas to produce small amounts of oil... oil that is sold on an 'international' market setting a base for the 'domestic' market.

Jobs, what jobs... I have a friend that works for a company in Calgary and they spent most of 2009 and 2010 under employed and at times not working at all due to lack of work.

The refinery they want to put in place for the oil for this pipeline is a prime example of their commitment to Canadian 'jobs'.

Currently its sitting in Lewiston Idaho. An $8 billion dollar oil sands refinery built by Sung Jin Geotec in South Korea with cheep labor that undercut Canadian labor. They have 200 giant factory building block modules for this one $8 billion dollar refinery. The locals are blocking them from passing through because they oppose the damage to their scenic roads as EXXON is willing to pay a $100 million in widening of them in places to fit these modules through to Alberta. They say they have plans for a 1000 more in the near future.

These are Canadian jobs for the building of these refineries exported for cheep labor, while Canadian workers with those skill sets see their companies sitting idle. Approved for by the Canadian Harper government representing 'Calgary'.

No its not about jobs at all. Its about finance and the bureaucracy that works for finance.

And we are to subsidize this further with the risk to our rivers and ocean... and if we oppose it some like He Spoke will lump us in with the 'Indians' I'm sure.

He Spoke said: "At what point in the generations of first nation should they become submerged into the mainstream life of being a Canadian citizen."

Whose goal is it to submerge First Nation citizens in mainstream life (Canadian citizen)?

Yours? For what purpose? Why do you see differences as negative?

Tell me, at what point will the mainstream Canadian citizen accept First Nation rights, as agreed to by our Canadian government, and quit crying no fair and believing every negative stereotype?

At what point will we learn to accept people's differences while recognizing that those differences can be positive.

At what point will we learn to quit saying "it's not fair" and realise that it hasn't been fair for several generations - that the shoe is just on the other foot now?

At what point will we learn that life will never be fair?

"YAWN" ...