I have been reading alot of news about holding non-binding referendums. This seems like a costly way of achieving nothing. If its non binding why have it in the first place. Its just another survey or study. Could someone please explain the benefit?

Politics... the onus becomes a political liability for any politician or party that goes against the legitimately registered voice of the people. If referendums were binding people would vote to pay no taxes and Californification of the budget process.

I think that's the answer... not that I agree with it.

A great read on why the USA economy has been gutted by turn coat establishment. the same can be said for Canada and the policy of our own home grown monopoly capitalists.


Chinese Take-Out (of US Economy)

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1292446800.php

Gold traders ....... same old, same old .... ca ... can't eat gold .... can't heat anything with gold ... can't even smoke gold .....

What has "value" after a disaster/war?

food
coal/wood
cigarettes ......

ottawa is an old machine for old times,yet they keep doing it over and over get rid of the senate .stop the bickering and do the job ,they forgot who they work for !! its time for real change,

i used to watch hockey now the americans seemed to have killed the game,no loyality from the players,too many teams,etc etc..

It has been a long year filled with lots of controversy and differences of opinion.
For today all I hope is for everyone to have a great day and fun filled New Years eve, and be safe...

Happy New Year to everyone!! Have fun and stay safe!!!

"Our" provincial government is sticking it to the working class, with the willing company of Harper's regime.

Meanwhile, Campbell brags that we now have the lowest corporate taxes in the country with the latest reduction to a token ten percent. And with the deductions allowed to businesses those taxes are reduced to a mere nuisance.

When will British Columbians wake up and rid the political scene of those who are handing our fate to corporations?

Can you smell fascism when it is in the air?

Let's remember the HST in the new year and who gave it to us.
And how they did it.
The Campbell government is working very hard at making you forget about it.
All part of the plan to get re-elected.
And they NEED to get re-elected at any cost,to prevent anyone from really seeing what has gone on.
Want the truth about B.C.Rail?
Get someone else inside to see the books.
This is a desperate government and they will do desperate things.
Buyer beware.

"I have been reading alot of news about holding non-binding referendums. This seems like a costly way of achieving nothing."

Referendums don't have to be costly. They can be done virtually for free as opinion questions (are you in favour of - Yes, No, Unsure) when part of the regular candidates' ballot at election time.

Some people have been recommending this method for decades, yet no party has shown any interest to do this regularly as a valuable opinion gathering tool.

Perhaps they are just saying that they value our opinion - usually we are too busy or too apathetic to squawk too much when they are doing it *their way* without regard to what we want and think.

Happy New Year!

Gold only has any "value" after a war/disaster by the willingness of someone to accept it as a "medium of exchange". It is their "belief" that by so doing they may be able to part with something they have NOW for the means to acquire something as, or more, desirable to them IN THE FUTURE.

Without that "belief" ~ that 'credit value' ~ gold only has any "value" for whatever gold might be used for as a metal, i.e. in dentistry, electronics, jewelry, etc.

After a war or other disaster it's far more likely that other commodities that are REAL "wealth", i.e., that can be 'consumed' in some manner or another for the actual "well being" of their possessor, would have far more actual "value".

"Value" itself is always subjective, it is found in the individual's personal satisfaction gained from "consumption".

No one was ever nourished by that roast of beef in the freezer, while it's in the freezer ~ it's only after it's been thawed, cooked and eaten that it's really been worth anything to you at all.

In a war/disaster where gold or some other commodity becomes the "medium of exchange", the "means of production" ~ which in any modern, pre-war/disaster, industrial economy are ever increasingly co-operative in nature ~ have broken down. Civilization itself has suffered an actual set-back, and barbarism has begun to take its place.

I'm not a gold guy... I think silver is a far better store of value... silver is harder to mine and has limited supply, but is used in the real world for all sorts of industrial uses that mean its limited supply is always in demand. It was silver and not gold that built the Atenian and Roman societies, and on the other hand it was gold that built all tyrannical societies in the past.

I always figured referendums should be done online through the Elections BC web site. They should have ongoing polls on topics every week submitted by registered politicians that can only be voted on by registered voters from the riding the poll originates in, or the province if its a provincial poll.

There is no reason why this can't be done with today's technology other than the party power process would like to suppress public opinion.

If done on the Election BC web site electronically, then in addition to voting one could also follow that up with a comment below to help educate the other voters as to why one voted in one direction or another... one vote and one comment per poll. This could easily be done because its none binding and only playing an advisory role for the legislature.

Better to poll the real voters, rather then listen to the corporate lobbyists IMO.

It's not that gold has increased in value so much, it's the value of our dollar has decreased in comparison. Gold has held it's buying power while our dollar has declined.

Now we have demand also contributing to the rise in price with a limited supply. I believe that silver has more potential to appreciate in value from an investment perspective than gold. Although I do expect gold to continue to rise through 2011. I wouldn't be surprised to see gold at $2,000 an ounce by the end of 2011.

So, what does everyone think about our local Chamber of Commerce supporting the HST?

Please give me a bit of the bike lane out there folks. Last night feeling like I was being shoved into the gutter hence the snow on the side of the road. I only need a bit of room. I got blinker for the back and a bright light for the front so after dark folks should be able to see me when you drive up to me. Have a good day and thanks to the city for snow removal for everyone including the cyclist.

Good point Eagleone,but that would mean the elected government is actually interested in what the voters think.
They are only interested when it suits them.
If it doesn't,we are simply put on "ignore".
What would be far more valuable,is less power for politicians.
For the most part,they are untouchable, and that needs to change.
"Accountability" is the key to good government.
The only way to get that, is to change our political system so that they have to go to the people before they run off on some tangent that costs us millions.
Particularly when it only benefits them, in terms of tax dollars to waste on dubious things, about which we are told very little.
We need to remember that much of the power politicians and governments have,they gave to themselves.
We didn't get a say and we are not going to, if they have their way.
Far too much secrecy in government.
Referendums are good...but they serve no purpose if they are not binding.
That's how we got the HST and why we are still waiting to have our say on it.
It is not the HST itself that is so bad,it is how it was done and who it actually serves.
The results of the anti-HST campain were basically ignored by the government.
We can vote,but we have to do it their way, when they want.
In the case of the Campbell Liberals,there is no doubt it was a money grab to cover up the truth about the debt load they ran up, but we are never given the real facts and numbers.
We are given spin.
Politicians are too well paid,there are too many perks and benefits, and they will do whatever they have to to stay in power.
Even lie and manipulate.
What the taxpayers think is completely irrellevant to them,other than at election time.

Wishing you all a very happy new year.

My three political predictions for 2011,

1) Premier Kevin Falcon will call a snap election early this summer

2) The ex mayor Dan Rogers will be whinning, he was a victim of the system

3) Colin Kinsley is heading to Ottawa.

I think the local Chamber in no way represents the best interest of the service sector small business who have to pay the additional 12% flat tax on the cost of their employees as a result of the HST... diminishing the value potential of their services. Any service sector business that funds the Chamber of Commerce is funding the propaganda machine for the transfer of taxation from monopoly corpratists to their own small business income statement. Lots of wanna-be's out there though in the business world... think they can make it big by buying in... we should boycott those types because their ignorance is part of the problem.

I predict... recall forces a change in government and the ndp opt to wait until 2014 to hold an election.

I also predict Colin Kinsley continues to accept his Petro China payments, via Enbridge, via Gateway, via Petro China... all the way up until he joins his globalist monopoly capitalists in Ottawa. People in these parts vote on name recognition alone, so he's a shoe in.

I also predict a new wave of municipal bankruptcies to start in 2011. The only way to clear out the outrageous management salaries being paid in the municipal governments.

Oh and Happy New Year folks :) May next year be better than the last for everyone.

You are right Andyfreeze. That is why we need Elections BC to enforce perjury laws and bannish politicians and political parties that are guilty of that crime. I wrote about this a lot on the BC Rail story. If Elections BC won't enforce the perjury laws then democracy is dead.

Democracy is dead in BC because Elections BC is in bed with the corpratist globalist agenda of the BC liberals. They need to be held accountable and they are given a free pass that emboldens even more crimes. Its to the point now where perjury is seen as just the icing on the cake to complete the crime cycle with impunity. Its become an art in BC politics.

For a change in topic there are those out there who are pushing for water meters for whatever reason. How many people leave water running when we get a cold snap? Now with water meters they most likely will leave the water flow off, potentially causing all sorts of problems. Have the greenies thought of that.

The only people who support the HST are those that stand to make some money from it. ie; Big Corporations, Government, and some smaller business's . Those who lose are the consumers, and if this tax stays around consumers will be paying through the nose forever.

People need to stay focused and continue to concentrate on killing this tax. We need to ensure that the Re-Calls go forward and if enough are successful then the Government will back off.

If we have learned anything over the past years, it is that the Liberals play fast and loose with the truth, and tend to hide as much information as possible from the public. With this in mind why would anyone beleive anything they say in regards to the HST or any other issue.

It is the duty of the voters to get rid of Governments that do not represent the peoples interests. I think it is very clear that the Liberals represent the interests of Business and Corporations. While this is **ok** to some degree, it cannot always be at the expense of the Citizens of the Province.

In actual fact we do not have a representative Government to-day. We have a bunch of individuals doing the bidding of one man, and are for all intents and purposes **puppets**. This has to end. We can no longer afford a Government who's only concern is supporting big business, and spending taxpayers dollars on various projects around the Country to get re-elected, not caring whether the projects are in fact needed.

The Liberal Government has lost its way, and is basically just staggering around like a bunch of drunks at a tailgate party. The NDP is sitting in the wings with a bunch of **also rans** and are hoping to capitalize on the Liberals problems so that they can form a Government. Problem is they do not know how to run a Government and at best would be no better than the Liberals, and probably worse.

People have been talking about a **third** party in BC Politics for sometime. I suggest to you that the time has now arrived. The third party in the next election that will make a significant impact on Politics in BC will be the **BC First Party** look them up on their website. This party will field candidates in all 85 ridings in the next election and will give voters a **third** option. The days of the Liberals and NDP blackmailing voters with the two party system are over.

Predictions for 2011.

The Liberals will lose the next election no matter when they call it, or who their leader is.

There will be some sort of coalition Government in BC, and then another election.

The HST will be recinded and if the Liberals are still around they will try and shaft us some other way to get the same results as they would have gotten with the HST

There will be a lot of economic activity in North Central BC which will be good for this area, however overall Canada will not do so good, and problems around the world could really do us harm.

Rodgers, and his buddies will continue to spend our money like drunken sailers unless we can get a tax revolt going, and show them we are dead serious when we say **No more taxes**

Have a Happy New Year.

Several years ago the two parties in BC were the Socreds and the NDP. Then a third party came along called the Liberals. This was quickly taken over by the discredited Socreds, who's leader, Gordon Campbell, knifed the elected leader, Gordon Wilson, in the Back to get power. The Socreds were dead and the two BC parties at that point were the Liberals and the NDP. So, another third party arose, the Pacific Democratic Alliance, and it had its day in the sun then slowly died due to insufficient support.

Now we still have the liberals and the NDP, although the Liberals are in the process of dyeing like their previous incarnation under the guise of the Socreds. Only the NDP remains the same, as stable as a rock through its political ups and downs.

So, disaffected Socred/Liberal supporter types and a few single interest voters want a new third party. History repeats itself, so expect that if this does happen, that it will quickly be taken over by the Socred/Liberal remnants and presented as the new shining light to save the province from the socialist hordes, but really employing the same old, tired, right wing economic policies which have run the world's economy into the ground this last couple of years, and which have come close to bankrupting BC by its implementing here by Campbell and his cronies, including those now touting themselves as Golden Boys and Girls to save the province.

Plus �a change, plus ces la m�me chose.

Talk about the price of gold. Try crude oil. The common assumption is that the price of gas is set by the cost of crude oil. The price of crude is set by stock markets in New York and London. In other words the cost of crude is a smoke and mirrors job to justify gouging us at the gas pumps.

So start the new year right Google old Ralph Nader and see what he has to tell you on the subject of crude oil.

On another subject did anyone see the Mayor on CKPG being interviewed by a news guy. It was also a smoke and mirrors job that our Mayor pulled off.

Well anyway a Happy New Year to all

Cheers.

Good point ammonra. One of the big problems in society today is "I come first". And as long as we let the next guy do it we will be in termoil.

We need to get out and take an interest in our Province. How can government take a direction if only 42% of voters bother to go to the polls. That means that there is 58% that dont give ahoot so why should Government not do it the way they like it best.
Cheers

Good Bye 2010, have a great 2011 everyone. My best to all in the new year!

See you all next year

We can make an argument that as long as people dont participate in the process it is the fault of the people. This of course lets the Government off the hook. Fact of the matter is, the Government is elected by the people who vote, and it is then their responsibility to Govern for all the people.

The fact that a large percentage of people do not vote in an election, does not give the Government the right to ignore the needs and wants of the people of the Province.

When a Government turns into nothing more than a bunch of individuals running around making speeches, taking photo ops, and generally trying to confuse the people, its time to turf them. Being turfed out is the ultimate price they can pay for being an ineffective Government. The voters have the power to change Government and they should do it on a consistant basis over time, as this is their only means of keeping some honesty in the system.

At the end of the day the people are responsible for the Governments they elect. If we want more people to get out and vote, then we should be encouraging them to do so. If we leave it up to the Government it will never happen.

The lack of understanding of how Governments are elected, the party system, etc; in BC is appalling. A very high number of people never voted, could not name three political parties, have no idea who is Minister of what, or what they do. These of course are some of the same people who complain the most and do the least.

I suspect that if we had a Provincial Party named. The Bitchers, Bellyachers, and Complainers Party, it would have the most members. Our motto could be **Bitch, Bellyache, and Complain, but do Nothing**

Our constitution could require us to abdicate all responsibility of Government to others, so that we have time to watch tv, drink beer, shop, and break wind. At every election we would have the option of voting, but would still remain members in good standing if we didnt vote.

So lets Bitch and Complain, and when all else fails, lets find someone to blame. Avoid mirrors at any cost, because if you should look into one you would see the person who is really responsible, looking back at you.

Two lines of thought.

1. No army in the world can stop an idea who's time has come. (Winston Churchill)

2. It is not enough to want to change, it is not enough to need to change. One must experience change in order to do things differently. (unknown)

Lets make 2011 the year that the people of B.C. took back the reins of power, and started looking after those who need looking after, and cut the flow of tax dollars to vested interest groups.

To change the topic here, I would like to know who is responsible for the food served at the local hospital and other care facilities. Why do we serve people who are unhealthy unhealthy food? Why are people in the hospital eating white bread, white rice, etc. when the health authorities promote prevention. Good food choices, meaning no white bread, pasta or rice, help with maintaining good health. Seems like the health authorities are promoting one idea for the masses but can't afford to use that same idea for the people in its care.

Because forthegoodofmankind, it is cheap and filling!

No army in the world can stop an idea who's time has come. (Winston Churchill)

He was just anothe politician who lived by the slogan, "bullshit Baffles Brains.


When a Government turns into nothing more than a bunch of individuals running around making speeches, taking photo ops,


And the reason for that is that only 42% elected them. We are therefore governed by apathy and get the government we deserve. Democracy depends on our participation.
cheers
Cheers

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all ... AND a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2011, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make Canada great, (not to imply that Canada is necessarily greater than any other country), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual preference of the wishee.

I believe that to think that a government would change if rather than being elected by 43% the are elected by 83% is rather naive.

Show me that the 43% is a significantly different sample than 83% would be and you might start to convince me.

Then there is always this argument as presented by a poster on the linked site ... (dare I link a site ... LOL)

"Anyway, i voted and don;t think it makes anu difference. Even if the guy I voted gor gets elected, he is going to do as he damn well pleases. There is no real feedback."

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/11/case-for-low-voter-turnout-us-should-be.html

In other words ..... interceptor wishes everyone the best for the holiday season .... :-)

Nice find, interceptor!!! That is a keeper.

I wish everyone a Happy New Year,but I am going into it depressed after a reporter for the Citizen called the area where I live a less-desirable part of the City. The area used to be very desirable , until the City tried to clean up the down town and shoved its problems up the hill.Now we have Needle Vans driving around residential areas looking for clients to give needles ,crack pipes , CONDOMS to, in a area where Children live.I think this is so sick. I think the City is up to no good again, I think the plan is to close down the Needle exchange downtown and replace it with Needle Vans driving around certin depressed areas of Prince George. Do the Needle Vans take used NEEDLES??? How much is this costing to run this program ?? How many other places in B.C. have this program going on? I bet Prince George is the only one.I bet no one can answer my questions. I wonder if anyone has noticed most of the logos on the Needle Van are Native.Thats wrong message.Children should be the main concern.

Perhaps it would be good to understand the definitions between a plebicite and a referendum. As I understand the terms, a referendum is non-binding by definition. A plebicite is binding.

On another topic... the mercury filled light bulbs the BC liberals are mandating as the only ones that can be sold in the province starting in 2011. The stupidest greeny policy ever.

These light bulbs will kill people. One light bulb can contaminate 6000 liters of water with mercury. One light bulb broken in a home can contaminate that home forever with mercury poisoning. A dog knocks over a lamp for example and the bulb breaks into the carpet... no way to ever clean that up save for removing the carpet or risk mercury poisoning for your family and pets. Buy a used house... how do you know its not already contaminated with mercury from a broken incandescent light bulb.

How many people have ever broken a light bulb... probably ever single person alive. How many people just trow batteries in the garbage and will likely do the same with burnt out incandescent light bulbs? In no time at all our water reservoirs will all be contaminated with mercury from these bulbs.

Look at PG for example. We have the best water in the world... but its not all limited in its reservoirs to the South side of the Nechako... the Nechako is only maybe 12 feet deep... the water reservoir is hundreds of feet below that and on both sides of the river. The Hart is all sand. The garbage dump in the Hart where all these incandescent light bulbs will end up will be full of mercury in a few years and leaching it all into our water supply.

The BC liberals are implementing plans to control private water wells now with metering and such... fits in nicely with poisoning our ground water with their incandescent light bulb plans.

All in the name of 'global warming' and the need to reduce electric consumption... forgetting the fact that BC gets 96% of its electricity from none carbon emitting sources.

The BC liberals and their globalist friends won't be happy until every home in BC is poisoned with mercury from their removal of choice for the home owner to buy products that are safe for our homes and environment. The Chinese benefit from being the only producer of these new environmentally deadly light bulbs.

Soon the Hells Angels will have another market to corner on the black market for light bulbs for people that wish to have a safe home for their families. Better get out and buy some while they are still legal to buy.

I believe a plebicite is a question posed to the community of plebes. :-)

The terms are synonymous ... then add terms such as "initiatives" used in parts of the USA and it really gets confusing.

As I understand it, we vote in the law makers. They are the ones making the laws. We do not make laws in a representative democracy. If the law makers choose to accept the results of a vote by the people on a question posed to them, they may do so or they may not do so.

I think those lawmakers who go to the people to ask questions they should be making decisions about are gutless because they were elected to make such decisions.

It is different if there were constitutional changes which are proposed. Some countries require those to be made through a vote of the plebes ..... :-)

Just got the National Geographic magazine.

Cover headline:

--------------

POPULATION 7 BILLION. How your world will change

---------------

If one thinks that $1.12/liter for gasoline is expensive wait a few years - it will look like a sweet bargain!

Well Gus I took the time to check the URL that you gave us. Is this a truth or is it just another opinion by a wordsmith. My thought has always been that a high voter turnout would give us better government and to think that “our time is the most precious commodity” and should not be wasted standing in voter lineup is about as sad an excuse for not voting that one can imagine. Actually it’s a little sick

And we should remember that the average American has a somewhat different outlook on their social structure then we in Canada. Health care is one blaring example of the American attitude and they probably place a much higher value on time then we in Canada. They have to survive. But that’s another story.

One must also remember that the internet will provide a lot of irrelevant information. As I have mention on another blog on the price of crude. I chose Ralf Nader as he had the same take on the price of crude that I do. But there are others who firmly believe that the price of crude is set by OPEC.
Cheers

Eagleone:"... how do you know its not already contaminated with mercury from a broken incandescent light bulb."

Incandescent light bulbs have a filament which emits light. The bulbs with mercury in them are called fluorescent light bulbs.

The BC Liberals are only mandating what has become the law in other countries already. In Europe the sale of incandescent light bulbs will be illegal soon. Only compact fluorescent bulbs will be available until LED light bulbs can be mass produced at an affordable price, which will be any day soon. They are already on the shelf at all of our major stores, but they are very expensive, just like the fluorescent ones were when they first went on sale.

Soon the compact fluorescents will be history.

I am 100% certain that any other BC political party would have mandated the use of energy saving light bulbs just like the rest of the world...it is not a political issue.

Prince George:-"I am 100% certain that any other BC political party would have mandated the use of energy saving light bulbs just like the rest of the world...it is not a political issue."
-----------------------------------------
I think you might just as well say that it's just as certain that "any other BC political party" (had it been in government instead of the BC Liberals) would've implemented the HST "just like the rest of the world...it is not a political issue."

And that might go some ways towards explaining why the now former leader of the NDP never seemed to be too forcefully definite that she'd 'axe the tax' if her Party became government. Only the leaders of the other Parties that haven't a hope in hell of ever being government could commit safely to that.

Just when does any matter of 'policy' cease to become a 'political issue'? When it conflicts with what those who control 'Finance' have decided what's best for maintaining their control over us through their control of 'finance', that's when.

The switch away from incandescent light-bulbs, ostensibly to to "save-energy", is primarily another means of re-inforcing the idea currently being fostered that energy is now somehow 'scarce'. And we should be willing to be increasingly penalised financially for using it.

Just as the HST, like other similar world-wide 'Consumption Taxes', is a clever means of taxing your spending from BOTH your "earnings" and your "borrowings", whereas Income Tax was ONLY a tax on your "earnings". When you have a country whose citizens are, on average, already $ 1.40 in hock for every
$ 1.OO earned, a situation that will only get worse, you can see the attraction. For those in government, to maintain their government's 'credit' with those they must prostrate themselves to for 'money' ~ not US, but the government's bankers. For the banker, to keep what is scarce in the hands of the public already even more scarce, and keep us coming back for 'more'.

How is it not a political issue princegeorge when they mandate a hazardous product into your home, and take the choice away from the consumer to buy a product that has absolutely no health safety concerns?

Where does the government get a mandate... to make something completely safe an illegal product, so as to save energy consumption that is none of their business? Mandating the use of a product that can potentially release a very harmful and hazardous material into your home that is impossible to remove from your home once released.

The BC liberals in effect are mandating that homes be contaminated with mercury, so they can reduce consumer energy consumption, and make bigger profits exporting energy saved. This is beyond the pale of a responsible government.

If other governments are doing it to, then they are just as morally corrupted by special interests, and that in no way means we should take the right for consumers to decide for a safe product in their own homes. Jumping off the same cliff because other people did has never been a good thing.

The global warming, energy savings ect arguments are complete bull**** when they use that to mandate a hazardous product into peoples homes and watershed. The consumers should have a right to chose a safe product even if it uses more energy.

Good post socredible.

We see the same thing with energy in that the Gateway Pipeline is designed to open an export market whereby to make Canadian energy resources even more scare to Canadians as we are forced to compete with the other 7billion people on this planet.

It use to be that sovereign governments strove to create an energy advantage whereby cheep energy for the domestic market gave it an economic efficiency advantage over competing countries and economies. That is now gone with globalization and now they want to make us pay the same for energy as the slave traders in China will be willing to pay... thereby reducing our competitive advantage in industry down to the lowest common denominator of cheep labor.

The current government policy is all about globalization and profits for finance, and has nothing to with what is best for our domestic economy, living standards, or the environment.

HAPPY New Year!!!