I wonder if this pipeline is offering the native bands 10% as well... if not I wonder what the rational is for the Gateway project? One has to wonder....

In any event the same argument holds true about undercutting our energy advantage by exporting out of North America on world market rates (for the energy industry we aren't Canadians, we are consumers to bid up the price)... but at least this project doesn't have such a huge environmental impact and risk like the Gateway one would with its tar oil.

Be interesting to see how the two pipelines stack up anyways... environmentally, economically, royalties, risk, regulatory...

A) Who cares about the indians? The less those scalpers get the better.

B) A pipeline is a pipeline and the biggest impact is during the burial, which is temporary anyhow.

C) Oil & gas is just subterranean stink juice until somebody buys it and burns it - leaving it in the ground is as dumb as thinking you can take your money with you when you die. Quit acting like you own that oil - you don't. Wanna own some? Go to the rights sales and pony up the millions it takes to extract it - then you'll actually have a say where it goes, until then you're just a blowhard on a computer.

"you'll actually have a say where it goes"

I look at it in a different way. Those who have the money have a say whether it goes. Those who have the expertise and consult or work as staff for a salary have a say where it goes.

Those who have land rights that are located where the line is intended to go also have a say whether it goes. So do the regulators.

Those are the folks that are not blowhards on the computer such as you, me and everyone else on here gamblor. But, we are allowed to do all the hardc blowing we want. The more of us there are, the happier Ben and Elaine will be .... ;-)

Disgusting comment gamblor.

National energy security is in everyone's interest.

Causing energy inflation in Canada due to opening up our resources to global markets for the benefit of international bankers effects everyone of us that has to heat our homes or drive our cars... Canadian blowhards or not. The resources in the ground are our national heritage and not the international bankers right with their fiat monopolist printing press dollars they use to undermine our real domestic economy.

The international bankers want these resources in Asia for personal gain... namely to power an economy where they have subsidized profits from lax environmental laws and slave labor that they can undercut our domestic middle class economy with free trade... and hit us double hard by forcing us to compete on the same price level for our energy while they undermine every other foundation of our economy through exploitation of third world economies chasing the lowest common denominator and not building anything up but a world of slaves with our energy resources.

Gamblor, you might have an argument if we had two prices, one for the domestic economy, and one for the international economy. We don't, they lump us all as one so they can milk the Canadian economy of its competitive vitality for the interest of international bankers... and that should be a concern of every Canadian that votes.

Also big difference between an oil tar pipeline and a gas pipeline when it comes to cleaning up a rupture... which is where the environmental concerns lie and not with how it is buried.

And we all know that virtually 100% of all pipelines eventually leak.

I have no problem Canada exporting more energy to the United States as a real ally that supports our economy through maintaining similar environmental and workers rights as we have in Canada. And I don't for one minute buy the monopoly market argument selling to the Americans when it comes to energy if we are using a common energy market price for that... if only the Americans didn't export energy off shore as well.

My problem with exporting energy, oil, gas coal or electricity is why do I have to pay for the export? Why does the taxpayer/ratepayer have to see their costs go up to pay for the infrastructure to line the pockets of who ever. It is quite a system where a business rakes in the money from an infrastructure that the taxpayer/ratepayer has payed for. Good deal if you can swing it.

Look at the Indepentant Power producers, the contracts they gotten, and the resulting increase and future increases in our electrical bills. Someone is making a lot of money.

All that is just the tip of the iceberg, go to the following link and see what is happening in Alberta and coming to BC.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/02/08/AlbertaElectricity/

So why is the taxpayer/ratepayer getting stung?

Eagleone, there is zero chance of a two tierd resouce pricing model. Trudeau tried it with terrible results. Lots of people besides banksters(what ever that is) benifit from oil and gas production. Thinking you can undercut producers to sell domestically would be Karl Marx's dream. The world doesn't work that way in reality.

Sure it does Dow... its called an export tax. We have the Canadian domestic rate and a 100% tax on that for export for oil and gas... if they want to sell it for international market rates, then its half price for the domestic consumer.

In years past prior to the gloalization mania promoted by the pharisees international we had what was called tarrifs to protect our domestic industry from being undercut by the slave runners of the world.

Donald Trump is no marxist and this is his policy for his presidential run for 2012. He wants an immediate 25% import tax on all imports from China... really no different than what I've been talking about.

I guess once Harper gets his marching orders from Trump when he's president then we can call them both marxists?

Seems the Donald is on Piers Morgan tonight and said exactly what I've said above. Says he won't announce his running though until June. You might get him on the rerun later tonight if you want to hear it from the horses mouth.

Also great article from the Guardian further explaining the rational....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/feb/08/saudi-oil-reserves-overstated-wikileaks

To sell our product (like it or not) we have to have access to markets..... pipelines are a better choice than the alternative, which is rail. The track record for the pipelines is better than CN's and they don't usually run the pipelines along rivers like they do railroads.

www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cn-cp-push-for-a-pipeline-on-rails/article1898062/

Name me a first world country with 100% export tax. President Trump telling Harper...????? ,take a pucksize valium eagle.

Donald Trump is a Marxist, why do you think he's been broke so many times? Your credibility goes down fast when quote "The Donald" in serious debate.

Dow news flash... they pay ten cents a gallon for gas in Saudi Arabia... what are you paying on the 'global markets'. Ditto for Russia... who else can you tell me of that has a surplus for export of energy. We are talking about energy here are we not... you know the stuff that fuels productivity in a countries markets... whats all this first world talk when most of the first world relies on countries like ours to subsidize their productivity.

Facts are an export tax on our energy is fair and the world would pay it or loose out productivity from limiting their supply... why should you and I as tax payers here in Canada have our middle class sucked dry in taxes paying a carbon tax and all these other fuel taxes to subsidize the communist party of China... who is the communist here... I say its you, why should I pay your marxist taxes so your marxist friends can undermine my standard of living... oh I forgot its all about political partisanship and not about your country... Harper is in bed with his international pharisees friends who are in bed with the communist party of China as their slave handlers, and therefor you support anything that comes down their pipeline with blind faith... I get it.

News Flash... Petro China... you know the ones paying the $100 million to buy off our politicians for a Gateway tar sands pipeline... they just bought 50% of Encana's gas fields in Canada... sure would like to get all that gas to their marxist shores paying the least amount of taxes as they can I bet.

Maybe one day when its too late you'll get it... at least the Donald does... him and Ron Paul are our only hope at this point.

And I suppose Dow supports the ponzi market consolidation as well with all these magical market mergers based on increasing derivative trading so as to make the markets global and beyond the reach of any national regulators that could protect society from the ravages of banksters printing money, creating bubbles, and blowing it all up to big to fail....

Soon we will all be automatons...

And I suppose the trillions in tax payer money used to bail out finance for their last bout of unregulated market risk manipulations so they could continue to get their billions in bonuses... that is just true conservative values of a market economy... nothing to do with marxism there... hope you collect your pension when the time comes.....

For the record I agree that wall street is a ponzi scheme and the day of recogning will come and make 2008 look mild. Not sure how your argument supports me being "marxist", mind you I never fully get your rambeling convoluted global theories.

Why stop at an export tax on oil and gas? how about coal, wheat, iron ore? Because we don't live in a backassed monarchy like Saudi Arabia, or corrupted Rusia. Markets set prices, governments and wallstreet thieves should not. Trudeau brought in the National Energy Policy to accomplish what you propose. The result was a disaster. Alberta went into reccesion as exploration came to a halt. Calgary went south hard. I know, I lived there. Federal Liberals are still a dirty word there. Trudeau's fairy tail economics sounds alot like yours eagle. Who wants to take the risk of oil exploration when you are required to sell to the rest of Canada well below market prices? What sounds good in theory can have ramifications well beyond the original intent. A unilateral export tax would set off a trade war that we would lose.

And I'm somehow a marxist.... whatever.

Well oil and gas are unique multipliers of economic wealth and productivity. Wheat is not.. manufactured products are not... coal maybe to a slight extent, but not to the level in BC anyways that oil and gas are. Oil and gas are critical to the functioning of our economy... with peak oil we can not afford to pay world market rates and hope to have a domestic economy here in Canada.

The Trudeau National Energy Policy was a joke... it was nothing like what I am talking about. It was a subsidy to Eastern Canada limiting the market rates within Canada artificially. I am all for market rates within Canada... and the US for the matter... I'm saying when we export to a country like China a communist controlled regime of a country that is using every means of economic warfare possible to undermine our middle class market economy (ie rare earth minerals, and their slave labor)... then they should pay an export tax for the privilege of access to our energy supplies. If you want to subsidize them, then yes you are a friend of the marxists and no better than Trudeau and his National Energy Policy on a global scale. The Chinese should pay the communist rate for oil and gas is all... they can buy as much as they want then and maybe we middle class workers won't have to pay so much of the national taxes.

And I ask how would we loose a trade war with China... please explain that one for me. If they didn't want to pay our export rate for energy, then so be it they can read in the dark while they freeze. If they want to retaliate... I hope they have enough grain supplies to replace the thousands of grain cars of grain they receive from Canada each year that enabled their industrial revolution and industrial cities to take people off the farms and make us widgets... the communist party would fall if that happened... Egypt is a prime example of what happens when a population goes hungry... I don't think the small circle of Chinese communists billionaires running that country would want that... its their greatest fear and weakest link.

We have free trade with the Americans and Mexico, not with China. Unilateral is just another word for sovereignty... so you object to Canadian sovereignty as well when it comes to energy exports offshore?

who decides the communist rate? you? Your going to hold up grain shipments to the communist hoards when your world tips out of balance and trade just isn't fair? I wish the real world was as simple as yours.

Obviously you don't get it... how does the Canadian Wheat Board work.... how did we assess tariffs in years past... quiet obviously I wouldn't be setting the rates... a process would be set up to determine the export tax rates for oil and gas to communist countries that use slave labor and currency manipulation to undermine our economy. I would think it would relate to windfall profits made by international finance selling our scarce resources on the world market for substantially more than costs plus reasonable profits with domestic rates factoring in as well. The government getting its share of the windfall profits from Wall Street market manipulations of global rates.

Your right, I don't get it. The CWB does not set a export price based on human rights issues or types of governments. Can you imagine the gong show with government beuracrates applying "risk premiums" based on your utopian criteria?
Besides the inevitable unworkability of such a system, it would start a trade war which no body wants.

over and out.