Want public funds ?? List the rent being paid. Public funds being paid to upgrade a private building- the public deserves to know what the cost are, who benefits and how much.

Gee, my place looks like crap too. I guess they can pay for a facelift on my place too.

This company has sucked enough money (through loans and manipulative sales) from the taxpayers of Prince George and the North. If they have any civic pride they should improve the building themselves. Taxpayers are not responsible for private property upgrades. If hizoner and our council even consider this, they should be dragged over the coals.

Hello mayor. My fence needs painting this spring. Could you phone General Paint with a city purchase order for paint. I will pick up the paint and put in the sweat equity.

P.S. Don't forget the rollers and brushes.

Whoa! Nice try Commonwealth. This cannot fly. I would expect a firm no from both the City and the Regional District, but who knows! If it happens, it will come back at election time to bite The Mayor & council in the butt.

This building is an embarrassment. If I were a tourist, I would not step foot in the place. Investing in the building is investing in some badly needed tourism, which in turn diversifies the economy. This is a flagship intersection of downtown, what with the courthouse and views to City Hall. Any citizen with community pride would support this modestly priced face lift.

BS, not with my tax dollars swordfern. You want it so bad, you pay for it! I could care less if it's an embarrassment to you. It isn't to the rest of us.

I support fixing up this building... but Commonwealth should be paying for it not the tax payer... Why would this be paid for by the tax payer? Someone needs to explain..

no, no, nope, nay, Natta.

Nothing ever happens down town, it looks deplorable.....

Well, if we want to make a change, this is when and where we can start.

It appears to me that it is the Farmers Market association that is seeking the money, the landlord may benefit from the improvement, but ultimately, the community benefits from an year round market place.... Seems like a reasonable request.

The only thing I would do, is to give it to the farmers market association with a five year interest free loan, and if the association does not pay it back, than the charge goes against the property. That would place the landlords with how much they support the farmers market, by leaving them at risk for the improvements.

Re state : Money from the Taxpayer, maybe I can get Money from the Government to, the Woodpeckers make Holes in my Siding, so Taxpayers Money for Residing ?

Asking for taxpayers money to improve private property?


NOT A FRIKKEN CHANCE!!!

Those that are asking for and supporting this have some nerve!

Commonwealth, the man has nerve. Hey has the taxpayer fixed up the PG Hotel site yet to sell back to Commonwealth?

City Hall and RDFFG should be embarassed for even considering something like this. Dan Rogers---- give your head a shake. Looks like you want to put lipstick on a pig.

The landlord should supply the needed building materials and the Farmer's Market Association the sweat. The landlord will benefit and so will the Farmer's Market Association.

Don't ask the taxpayers! It's not RIGHT!

The other recourse: The Farmer's Market Association gives notice and looks for a building in better and cleaner condition!

If this milking of the taxpayers gets the green light I shall boycott the Farmer's Market from then on!

Enough is enough! How many potholes can be fixed with 20 grand? Quite a few!

Let's get real!

dear mr.rogers my house been run down and has not seen any lipstick over two decades,i want to propose to the city a before and after picture, im asking 15 000,and from the olympic fund,also the president of the no mans club supports my application.thank u city of prince george.

Tourism? Who wants to come to Prince George and pay the high gas prices we have here, we are on our way to par with Vancouver.

What caught my eye in this article is that MR. Langer seems to be on both sides of this deal. At best he should opt out of any dealings with this property. A clear conflict in my opinion. Why should the taxpayers be involved in any property improvements? That should only be between Commonwealth (the prop. owners) and the tenants (the Farmers Market).
We the taxpayers should not be on the hook-AT ALL!!!! City or regional should stay out of it!

I think He Spoke has a great idea. It is a great example of keeping an open mind to alternative solutions. I would actually go for this deal. Perhaps other people on this site should open their mind once in awhile.

The other option is for Commonwealth to raise the rent and pay for the upgrades themselves. Then the Farmer's Market will approach Council and the Regional District for operating funds.

Boy …. Lot’s of anger out there today. Looks like Commonwealth has really developed a reputation for themselves.

A couple of things I would like to say that hopefully has a bit more of thought behind them.

There is the building owner and there is the tenant. In a normal rental situation, the tenant is responsible for improvements to an owner’s properties unless they are structural improvements that maintain the integrity of the building.

Want to put flags up, paint it in your corporate colours, put a sign up, add a few windows so that each “bay” looks the same as the adjacent bay so that your business image is conducive to bring more customers in? Well, in that case it is tenant improvement.

On top of that, I was under the impression the City has a façade improvement program. If they still have it, then this should certainly apply to that. However, I believe it is the owner who benefits from the tax reduction should the City accept such an application.

Finally, we have the DBIA. The City collects money from the merchants of downtown and gives it to the DBIA to improve the marketability of the collective businesses. It seems to me this might fit under that plan. It may set a bit of a precedent, while installing improvements on the sidewalk, such as special lamp standards or flagpoles may not. Put the flags onto poles that are firmly planted into the sidewalk outside the building, add a sign from the heritage commission providing information about the heritage value of the building, and the DBIA, in conjunction with the city will be easily spending as much or even more money than the Farmers Market group is asking for.

I suspect that there is no income on the building from the group other than covering the interest costs of the building owners. The market would also likely be covering taxes, utilities, including heat. I would expect they also covered interior renovations.

No one knows how quickly the owner will be in a position to build the substantial building “he” has planned for it. Give it 5+ years unless they can cut a deal before that with a housing project, the wellness centre, or something like the northern health people who I suspect are looking for a building to consolidate some of their operations. Of course, some of those might also allow Commonwealth to increase their investment in the previous Chances building and complete their agreement to build some housing units there.

There are no guarantees for the Farmers Market group I would think. They can likely get kicked out with a couple of months’ notice. The building is ideal since it is right across from their summertime outdoor facility.

To me, this is a no brainer. Get the DBIA involved and see if they are still alive. They appear to have been lying under a rock. If they really want to do something for downtown, then give them a chance to anti up first. That will give us a chance to see whether they mean business or are just another group in charge who are incapable of getting anything done.

Isn't this the same bunch that got the interest free loan from the govt and don't have to pay property taxes for the next 5 years?

Didn't they buy that old hotel and then flip it back to the city for a huge profit without doing a thing?

Someone must be getting kick-backs somewhere.......the city can't be this stupid can they?

No, No, No, No NOOOO! Mr. McLaren can afford to 'refresh' his building for his tenants on his own dime. The building is not pretty, but why is that our taxpayers' problem?

I just got my PG utility bill on Friday, and I am not working so the costs are escalating while my income is not.

For pity sakes, he can even deduct the cost of maintenance to his building on his taxes, unlike me doing work on my home!

That is enough of giving this group of 'elite' businessmen free cash on every corner of downtown.

L1510s:"Perhaps other people on this site should open their mind once in awhile."

Read the posts above - looks like the majority of the comments are from people who DO have their minds wide open already!

Perhaps those who are in favour of this inspired gift giving should take up a collection to assist the poor realty company.

The problem with Commonwealth having to pay for it. They won't be putting the money forward first. They rather have the tennant have their own necks out there first. If I was Commonwealth, I would do the same, than after two years into it, if they are not paying down the loan, increase the rent to cover this cost coming up on year five.

I agree with the sentiment on this site that this proposed deal to use public funds to support private property improvements is very wrong. Where would this end if the precedent is set?

Somebody should have handed Sheila Fraser the Commonwealth-CoPG-DBIA files on public money being spent on property transactions in our downtown core while she was here and asked for her comment. If not her office, another independent review of these files may be warranted, particularly when you see such cases of folks sitting on both sides of the table with public funds involved as appears so here.

Its all well to champion investment in our downtown core, etc, for all sorts of good buzz-word reasons, but when the funds appear to be circular with outside investment to the circle being just public funds, is there any real benefit overall to tax payers, or is it just a black hole for tax dollars to a common final non-taxpayer source?

We have not got the faintest clue what agreement is in place. There is space in the downtown that has gone for $2 to $3 per square foot triple net and the owners were "happy" with it. Even with that, there could have been payments by the owner for tenant improvements based on a long term lease. Even then there is no guarantee. The tenanat goes bankrupt and leaves the owner holding the bag.

Investment in commercial property in PG is not exactly a low risk game.

In my opinion, the City, over many decades, has made some bad decisions with respect to the downtown and we are collectively paying the price for that.

As hard as the many previous directors of the DBIA may have tried, they did not manage to turn the situation around. The current group appeared to be trying a differnt tactic to get people off their behinds, but they have been extremely silent other than a flurry when they first started.

I have to ask "what have they done with the money the City collects on their behalf?"

Hopefully there will be a presentation to Council soon with full disclosure of money input and output of tangible benefits.

"Investment in commercial property in PG is not exactly a low risk game."

The risks are reduced substantially when using zero interest government money and building up the bank account though windfall profits flipping buildings.

I think that would not redcue the risk by very much.

Here are the deals that have been out there and may still be out there in the near future.

The government wants a building. They do not want to build it, so they call for an RFP for leased space for a long term, such as 10 years.

With the guranteed lease over that time, the developer builds a building with a payback on the investment of 10 years. The developer ends up with a building which may or may not be rented or sold for other uses, or may actually continue to be rented by the government.

THAT is what I call a low risk investment.

THAT is the way the government prefers to do business at this time. Even though that method of obtaining space on a "competitive" basis has been around for a couple of decades, it has now transitioned into a P3 project process. Essentially a rent to own.

Car dealers love the process. Developers love the process. Government loves the process. As a taxpayer, I am not so sure.

Buying derelict property in the downtown of a town that is losing population and promotes urban sprawl to boot is high risk unless you think you have a buyer, or even better, you have a buyer but they want you to make the deal for you so that the property does not escalate in asking price just because the owner knows there might be someone with deep pockets interested in the property.

The scenarios are endless, and it is all part of doing business in this country. All the players are relatively sophisticated and know they are playing in a game of bluff and they could win, or they could lose when the final hand is on the table.

If I was a developer and the city was using my concept drawing and potential layouts in their presentations I would feel pretty confident that I had the ear of City Hall, even if they went through the trouble of removing the name from the drawings.

I really wish Ben would have gotten the rest of those minutes and who was in attendance of the NDI Trust(?) meetings.

Concept drawings?

The City can use them to promote the notion that a developer is actually interested in investing downtown. It has been a LONG time since that has happened other than the botched Chances Gaming Centre caper.

Talk about there being no guarantees .....

Whose conceptual drawing were used to show the area around the WIC if it is ever built. Not so long ago.

Where is that canopy that the Ramada promised? I must say, at least they did the lobby. But that renovations is trying to beat the record of delay that the Sandman still is the proud owner of, followed shortly behind by the lenght of time it too the Four Points to get its place built, and then the swimming pool a year or two later.

It's just a slow town. When there is no population increase, things move slowly ..... oh, did I mention the Keg?

How about B&B? Rebuilt half the property that was burned down and gave us a parking lot facing George Street for the rest. I guess we need to be thankful for that.

Or hey, how about the city tearing down the canopies and having no incentive program in place to get the businesses tto fix the facades that were left behind with scars on them? .... Oh right, that involves the building under discussion here too, doesn't it?

I know, I know. It's the big picture I am introducing here. All interconnected. No one is integrating the whole thing. Not the DBIA, and not the City. One totally unplanned hodgepodge with everyone looking for money somewhere ... the city from the province, the province from the feds and the small busineess owner from the city .....

I think the farmers should simply make the improvements, up the prices, and allow the people who shop there to pay for it, or allow the farmers to go bankrupt and then allow the building owners to tear the place down and join the "parking lot" on the other side of the street and the others left by the two banks on 3rd .... been there for 20 years ... we got used to it. We'll get used to the new parking lots on George St. as well.

Whose conceptual drawing were used to show the area around the WIC if it is ever built. Not so long ago.

Paul Zanette ... rest his soul ... probably charged less for it than anyone else would have .... some may even have been pro bono ..... seeing downtown redeveloped was his passion.

1/2 a million profit from the city tax payers on the PG Hotel flip for Commonwealth. I think C/W could spend 4% of the profit and fix up their own building. Don't think the taxpayers should have to pay twice.

Yes I can agree with a lot of the comments above.
Using City funds to spruce up a private building doesn't make much sense.

I'm wondering why downtown can't get more businesses that bring the people downtown. The farmer's market is something that only happens on Saturdays. What about the other 6 days of the week.

Even some of the businesses that seem to do a bit better like Amigos and Margos aren't open past 5PM. That's because nobody hangs out downtown after 5PM.

I don't see much of a farm produce
being grown during winter in Prince George. Therefore they should only
stick with the outdoor "farmers"
market, no need an indoor one.
Any one estimated yet the worth of the "winter farmers market"?
How much real farm product are on
sale during winter and how much
it's worth ?
Real farm markets support themselves,
they don't function from handouts!
Shame on the city if they don't brake
up their sinful affairs with Commonwealth!

Last year me and the better half wandered into the old building on the corner pictured. Must've been very poor farmers inside. One old lady was flogging (organic?) eggs fer $5 (five) bucks a dozen. I hope she sold a lot. This town is sad (in certain respects). But on the upside, good luck to every one trying to make a buck off the taxpayers.