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They Shoot......They Score

By 250 News

Monday, March 14, 2011 09:31 PM

Prince George, B.C. – They came in team jerseys and ball caps, and filled the gallery at City hall, all to send a visual message about their concerns over the planned renovation to Kin 1. Their presence underscored the more than 100 emails sent to each and every member of Council. 
 
The pressure worked.
 
At issue, the plans for the Kin 1 building which will see some demolition and  a major upgrade to the facility to have it ready for the 2015 Winter Games. The user groups want an upgrade to Kin 1 and a new stand alone facility built.
 
Council asked staff to come back with details on what a cost comparison would mean in terms of time line and extra costs, but there is a hitch, because the City has a contract with the Canada Games Council to provide the facilities as outlined in the bid.
 
That report from Staff indicates:
·         Extra expenditure for the cost comparison (for which there are no dollars) so staff say the tax levy would have to be boosted to cover that $105,000.
·         Overall cost of  upgrades to Kin 1 would be $16.5 million
·         Demolition cost would be $180,000
·         Adding a new facility would require an overhaul of the Exhibition Park masterplan and the cost of that is unknown
·         Completion of the planned upgrades to Kin 1 would be Sept 2012
·         If a new building is selected (providing the Canada Games Council would agree to a change in the plan) would not be completed until December 2014.
·         If a new facility is to be built on the Exhibition grounds, there would have to be some decisions made on what to do with other buildings on the Exhibition grounds.
 
Councilor Cameron Stolz drew some applause from those in the gallery when he called for current staff to come up with an idea on what a new building would cost regardless of where it might be   built on the Exhibition Grounds. 
 
When asked how much money would be lost ( through ice time rentals) during the time Kin 1 is being upgraded, staff advised that the other arenas would be fully utilized and there would be cost savings because the City would not be  operating Kin 1.   Staff also say there is nothing to indicate a new facility is needed at this time.
 
Councilor Garth Frizzell says his email account was flooded with requests from user groups pushing for a new facility, but he would like to see if there is other commitment  from the community “Two weeks would give enough time to clearly hear from the city (residents) if they are supportive of that commitment.” In other words, allow some time to  find out if there is enough interest in the community at large to  raise money or donate money.
 
Councilor Don Bassermann  says “When the federal and provincial government are coming to the party with money, you will dance to their tune.”   Bassermann  says the Feds and Province will want to see support from a variety of levels before they come forth with any cash.
 
Mayor Dan Rogers says if the plan is changed, it would add a further $4-$6 million to the capital plan for the games. As for how it could be financed, the tax levy could be increased, or the City could borrow the money which would require an alternate approval process.
 
Council has approved  moving forward  with a cost analysis for a stand alone new facility . Council Wilbur says the analysis is a “responsible course to take, that knowledge is power, and right now we don’t have the knowledge.” He says the   City needs to have the analysis in order to come to a fair decision on the possibility of a “Kin 4”.
 
Councilor Don Bassermann  says the hockey users are not the only user groups who have an interest in  facilities for the Winter Games.   He says Council represents more than the 120 people who sent emails, and noted the curling groups, speed skaters and biathlon groups  are all expected to come forth with their own requests for capital improvements.   “There are a lot of user groups who have been waiting, for instance the Performing Arts centre people, when do they get their turn?”
 
Mayor Dan Rogers says it’s amazing, “Six months ago,  this was all a pipe dream with no ability to pay, so I think no matter what happens, we are in a pretty good position At the end of the day the money that really matters is the $6.3 million that is on top of the money we’ve already allocated. Do you want to increase our debt load, or does everyone want to increase the taxes?” The Mayor says he is concerned this facility is being discussed in isolation of the other capital needs for the games. He says if there is money for a new arena, perhaps it should be built downtown. “My gut tells me to be conservative, save money.” He says even if the money is spent, he expects the final result of a cost analysis  will be to move ahead with the existing plan .

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Comments

yayyyy, more spent money! Way to go PG!
These bloody hockey players can play outside in the school yards. How many bloody arenas do they think they need.

We shouldt even be having the bloody games here, let along building new arenas.

What a bunch of self centered bozo's
I am glad we are having the games. I play hockey and am very familiar with our facilities.

The thing I don't understand is the preceived need to to renovate Kin I for the games? Isn't the CN centre good enough? Kin 1 is currently a nice rink to play in and watch hockey (although the dressing rooms could use some improvement). I can't see how demolishing it would be a good use of taxpayer money.

The problems anticipated by the rink users will be solved if they just cancel the Kin I renovation.
Simple answer...CN Centre is not enough for the Games.
Ringette, Men's and Women's Hockey, figure skating, short track speed skating, (and maybe even curling depending where it ends up) all require a rink that meet national specs with appropriate spectator seating.
Throw in opening and closing ceremonies and at least one other "nice" rink besides CN Centre and the Coliseum (yuck) are required.
Self centered bozo's?

Hmmmmmmm........

So what do we call the LIMITED pool of people who wanted and got the new 5 Million dollar Art Gallery?

If you don't like something the best course of action is too take action.

Sounds like the supporters of this idea "united" and made their presence and wishes known.

Thankfully in our society if you don't like it then do the same as these supporters did... but only to stop it.
Heck I was eighteen before I played hockey in an arena. About when they invented that there electricity.
How about College Heights!

Why not build the areana in College heights. It should be a no brainer of a decision. fix up Kin 1 and build the new areana at College heights.

Ah, ya bozo never listen to the guys on the ground floor anyway. We will vote you out next election.

Oh bye the way, Nice posturing Danny Boy,
"save money"
The City is getting close to the maximum amount of money they can borrow, so I expect that they will not be spending any on a new Kin Centre. This might have an adverse effect on their plans to build a new PAC Centre. We also dont know how much money we might have to throw into the Wood Innovation Centre if it is built.

In addtion I expect that our cost for the Winter Games will be a hell of a lot more than we expect. Anyone who thinks that we will get anywhere near the number of people attending as Halifax did is just kidding themselves. Halifax has a population of 400,000 plus thousands in the surrounding area. We have 300,000 in all North Central BC. Ie; 100 mile to Ft St John to Pr Rupert. So dont expect any big crowds.

Once the Hotels are full, people who would normally come to town to shop will stay home, so there will be a significant loss to retailers.

A study of the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City by the University of Mass (Worcester) showed that during the games the Hotel and Restaurant industry made $78 Million dollars, while the Retail industry lost $167 Million dollars.

This huge lose was attributed to **Displacement** which basically means that people who normally come to your town to shop on a regular basis, will stay away during the time that the games are being held because of limited hotel rooms, and restaurant space, and the inflated prices.

So hang on to your wallets.
Funny how every new governor, premier, president, dictator, new mayor etc needs to embark on some grand mega project!

In ancient Egypt the pharaos constructed giant pyramids, one bigger than the one before! Something to do with egos and the afterlife. These projects kept people's minds off other issues and enslaved for the duration while the tax collectors did their best to collect enough dough or forced labour in lieu of.

Using the same methods they also built sports arenas and giant performing arts centres, called the Colosseums, where they put on shows to entertain the massses.

Sometimes they broke the treasury and lost their heads, literally.

History often repeats itself.

hmmmm .... even the Romans in the outlying provinces such as Pompei knew the difference between an arena and a theatre.

Repeat after me ...

"this is a colosseum for games"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyhay/1151897315

"this is a theatre for performing arts"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dani3l3/2542985946

Oh, and if you are wondering why the arena has more seats thant the theatre, it is mainly because when a game is played, it is over. When a play is performed, or a comedian presents a show, it can be repeated several times to a new audience.

:-)

We sure do need a bit of education for the masses in PG, don't we?
Now, as to that Kin Centre I thing. I understood that part of the reason to replace it was because it is getting old and needs a major renovation. So, if we build a brand new arena, Kin I would still remain and eventually become like our pot-holed streets, irreparable.

We really do need to learn how to take care of our facilities much better than we do.

Why not build some outdoor arenas? Other cities have them.

Downtown outdoor skating rinks
Kelowna –http://www.flickr.com/photos/harleymac/5486406754
Toronto - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeannot7/2168887612
Chicago, urban outdoor rink - http://www.flickr.com/photos/colineles/3291754808

Covered outdoor skating rinks
Minsk - http://www.flickr.com/photos/11683866@N06/3445784550
Squaw Valley Olympic rink open - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jordanfischer/5473129084
Squaw Valley rink coveredhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/hamosphere/2643856737
Squaw Valley - http://www.flickr.com/photos/hollywoodplace/3477692943/in/photostream
Squaw Valley sketch - http://www.flickr.com/photos/19318994@N08/4641442900
Reston, Virginia DOWTNOWN shopping centre –http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigbirdz/2061841302

Open outdoor skating rinks/ovals
Kazakhstan, speedskating oval - http://www.flickr.com/photos/emandernie/288445784
Hockey outdoor hockey game - http:// http://www.giftsandfreeadvice.com/free_advice/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/nhl_winter_classic.jpg

Outdoor hockey - http://www.flickr.com/photos/zaniacphoto/3261088311

I have to look at that last picture and ask myself why we have turned into a bunch of wusses when we can’t even play a game that was started outdoors in the kind of environment where it started. Why does it have to go inside to a climate controlled arena?

And if anyone thinks the season is not long enough, look at these outdoor rinks in southern California.
Los Angles – http://www.downtownla.com/0_01_eventDetail.asp?EventID=2357
Santa Monica - http://www.girlatastartup.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ice-2.jpg
Toronto – great page on city outdoor rinks http://cityrinks.ca/wiki/wiki.php?n=CityRinks.FrontPage

Put a facility into Masitch Stadium. Only the rink is needed.

Put an arena downtown with a cover. Use it for a farmers market over the summer.

Od course we do not know what sort of thinking went into the process of deciding the option they have been pursuing. They may have had all sorts of wonderfull ideas but rejected the. We simply do not know because the citizens were never part of the process and they have also not been brought into that process now that the need for secrecy no longer exists.
Thanks realitycheck

However, they are planning on using Kin II and the Elkcentre for the games, in addition to the CN Centre, the Coliseum and Kin I. If Kin II and the Elkcentre "meet national specs with appropriate spectator seating" then I can't see how Kin I can't pass the test.
Didn't the City get the games awarded after an in-depth presentation was made to the committee and after certain committments were made as to required upgrading?

None of the above ideas were part of the plan and of the agreed-to package?

How come the whole thing is now threatening to grow bigger and more expensive? Where will it stop?

It's beginning to look like the low balling of the new fighter jets contract!
all those who want a new rink can pay for it, leave the rest of us off the bill!
My thoughts exactly PrinceGeorge. Mind you, we do have to recognize that this is PG, the city that creates plans for the sake of creating them, not for the sake of actually accomplishing what they set out to do.

I also wonder if the councilors who voted for this could comprehend the fact that the games were awarded based on the initial plan, not the revisions that were discussed last night. Do none of them understand what a contract is and the various implications that could arise from not living up to the said contract? Aren't these people supposed to have that great private sector experience? It was actually incredible watching some of that discussion last night and seeing how some of the members on council seemed to be oblivious to the implications of what they were discussing, LOL.
The issue seems to me is if we are going to spend 16 million, lets do it efficiently. I for one have zero faith in the city to do this. If rodgers is against it.......well..maybe these folks have some points we should hear.

Doesn't that 16M include money from the Province and the Feds (10M if I am not mistaken)? I'm also pretty sure that their contributions were contingent on us getting the games and as such, following the capital spending plan that was approved as part of that process.

Wouldn't it be something if city council decided to spend the 16M in some way other than what was approved and the Province, Feds and Canada Games people told us to pound sand and they took their money elsewhere, thus leaving the local user groups with no upgrades . . .

It is as though half of City Council does not understand the purpose of planning and they prefer instead to just react to whatever impulse they have at the immediate moment. It is actually scary. How can we expect this council to follow any other plan developed by the city if that is how they act? Furthermore, how can any potential investor to PG have any faith that they will support the plans that have initially been approved when they make a pitch? The whole thing just looks bush league and all because a handful of hockey players sent some e-mails. It's actually scary to think that something like that could sway so many councillors away from a plan that obviously took time to develop and that they all apparently supported not long ago.
The City should sell or lease the arenas and let a private company run them (ie Burnaby 8-Rinks).