Muck racking???

Selling something you do not have is called false advertising in most circles. If this were as business, we may call the Better Business Bureau or whatever.

Truth in advertising ...

HEY GERRY-- IF YOU WERN'T SLINGING MUCK WE WOULDN'T BE RAKING IT. FOR A CHANGE MAYBEE YOU SHOULD TRY TO PROMOTE SOME DECENT INDUSTRY FOR THIS AREA. MORE JOBS AND TAX PAYING INDUSTRY, THEN MORE CHANCE OF AN ICE OVAL.BUILDING A FACILITIY IS EASY--MAINTAINING IT IS THE PROBLEM.

I can understand why they might be a little testy. Who wants to answer questions that there are no answers for.

What we have to do now is put all this information on file and watch and see what happens between now and 2010.

I for one will be watching on an ongoing basis and if proven wrong will be the first to admit it, however I sincerly doubt that we will get very much training done here, and if we do I doubt that it would amount to a lot of money. The speed skating oval, if built may be ok for the locals, especially if they are going to pay for the bulk of it, but I would hesitate to build it on the projections received so far, as to training for the olympics.

Another Project coming in the BACK DOOR. WE need the roads fixed not Ice rinks. IN ONE DAY MORE PEOPLE USE OUR ROADS THEN...WILL EVER USE THE SPEEDSKATING OVAL The Mayor is full of S..T and he plays in the MUCK.

What on earth does anyone expect it to provide but Ben and Elaine's views/interests? I never expected anything else. As one of the "crabby/crappy bitter old men" (I'm 62) I appreciate the opportunity to spout my views in response to Ben and Elaine's. Even though I'm old and crappy I still have a mind of my own, sonny boy, and I intend to practice democratic free speech whether you young 'uns like it or not! So there!!

Opinion gives us the outlet to vent on some subjects that you would never see in other papers. One reason is limited space for letters to the editor and of course editing.

Most of the news from other sources in this town appears like it was produced and written by the Chamber of Commerce, the Real Estate Board, the Rotary, or some other town boosting orginization that trys to show everthing in a good light because it would be bad for business to tell the truth.

The broken down buildings East of Victoria St. littered with *For Rent* *For Lease* *For Sale* signs are a good example. You will never see a picture of these buildings, or see a comprehensive analysis of what is happening downtown. What you will see is a Picture of the Bears, or a Picture of a Statue, but very seldom a picture or story on the truth. A few months ago their was a TV Progam on drug addicted people in downtown Prince George by CTV I beleive. It gave a better indication of what goes on down there than what you get in the local news.

There are any number of other reasons that this is a good site to get out information that would not be forcoming from other places, and we just have to take the good with the bad or sign off. I for one will stay signed on for now.

Not only do we get some good coverage on news on this site, but it is up to date. Other papers give you to-days news to-morrow.

There is no reason for us to agree with the Mayor and Councillors, or IPG, or any other orginization if we chose not to.

I can sympathize with the Councillors somewhat who get paid $18,000.00 per year and probably earn it by the amount of time they put in. However I do not feel that I have to be nice to the Mayor, or IPG, who are highly paid to do a job, if I feel they are not doing it. That is part of being in Politics and if they dont like it they can bail out.

I really do not understand all this running around talking about foreigners coming to Canada going here there and everywhere to train. Sounds more like wanabee group of paparazzi to me.

Why do we simply not ask the Canadian athletes? Where did they train prior to showing up at Torino? What at the characteristics of a good pre-Olympic training facility?

I would expect, for instance, that those who do long and short track speed skating would want to train on an indoor track. They need to race against the clock and know how well they are doing. Given the best outdoor refrigerated 400 metre oval simply does not cut it when you have to deal with wind, never know if it is going to rain, snow, hail sleet or whatever when you are trying to practice. I mean it could be a 10C day in January or February here with the sun beating down on an unprotected track. These are professionals, and if they have to train on a track in Salt Lake, Lake Placid, Squaw Valley or wherever, in order to get an indoor track, so be it. In 5 hour they will be in Vancouver and ready for the big games. These people cannot afford to fool around with unknown entities such as an outdoor track will get them.

If we want to play with the big boys, we had better learn a bit more about what the big boys need. As far as a proper long track ice oval, unless you are willing to dish out $30+ million for an arena with a few seats, you need to forget about it. Simply not worth it to bring $100,000 to $200,000 worth of business to town.

Let’s talk those sports which can be accommodated in facilities we have – ice arena, cross country skiing facility, curling. We could do some of the snow boarding plus moguls if we installed snow making equipment so that we could guarantee snow. We cannot even do that right now. At least it would provide an improved facility for locals who have had to pray to the god of snow for years.

in the words of the Real Edmund Burke (Irish born English Statesman/author 1729 - 97)"He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves, and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper."

I think the key message to be gotten from the real Edmund Burke is that he supported, to his death, the validity of status and hierarchy.

Tom Paine, on the other hand, a contemporary of Burke's and an oponent of his postition, also the son of a Quaker, was an advocate of the abolition of the monarchy and a proponent of democracy ......

So, it is easy to see why Mr. Burke doe not want the public here to have a voice by engaging in debate about matters which affect them.

Not only that, but neither he nor KrisB are able to debate the issues, rather they continue to attack the individuals.

Now this is a beautifully located outdoor track in Italy. It appears to be one of the few outdoor tracks remaining on the ISU circuit.

http://home.hetnet.nl/~tdb150881/collalbo/collalbo.html

Notice the huge spectator stands ;-)

Such a rink will certainly allow locals to train with the idea of becoming speed skaters. At the moment, those who have progressed to the international level and are serious about it will tend to move to Calgary. Do not think that people will move to PG because we have an outdoor artificial oval. We must remember that Richmond will have the newest facility in Canada, effectively doubling the capacity for training.

This, as other decisions, becomes a matter of priorities for the citizens of this city plus best value for money. Let us look at this and compare it to other recreation options we have, especially what we do not have compared to other communities our size. So we would have an outdoor rink 800 km away from major centres which provide the population base required to make efficient use of such a facility.

I say, if private enterprise wants to build it, go for it. If not, there are other priorities.

Here’s one in Oslo http://www.askskoyteklubb.no

And here is the one being proposed for the Peterboro area of Ontario. Look at what they are doing with respect to the heat they are extracting from the soil and generated by the refrigeration process; also look at the price tag of $10.8 million, which is what I thought the proposal for here was originally estimated as.

http://www.ontariospeedskatingoval.com/index.htm

http://www.ontariospeedskatingoval.com/newpage1.htm

http://www.ontariospeedskatingoval.com/toppage5.htm

http://www.ontariospeedskatingoval.com/toppage2.htm

In my opinion this community, other than Gordon Hoekstra, has no investigative reporters who write for newspapers or even put news on the radio and TV.

What is investigative reporting?

In the traditional sense, it is simply good reporting.
It includes:

In-depth, long-term research & reporting

Documentary research and use of public and private records, following the paper trail

Extensive interviewing

Crime-solving tools and methods (undercover reporting, hidden cameras, surveillance)

Revealing information others want to keep secret or information not known to the public

In the world of TV, W-Five, 20/20, etc come to mind.

Example headlines from W-FIVE

"W5 goes behind the headlines surrounding former forensic pathologist Dr. Charles Smith to look at two cases he handled that are now in question."

http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/news/WFive.html

Investigative reporting is also:

a belief in the watchdog role of the media

focus on the accountability of institutions and individuals with power.

While news to me includes reporting on the obvious visible facts of an event which any one of us could report on if we were there, and could be considered to be similar to a camera filming as an event unfolds, the reporting is often considerably more boring than the event itself and typically used by those who are the event or part of it to promote the event itself. In other words, it is advertising at its best – free.

We need that, to be sure. But we also need the other in order to stay balanced.

The fact that the Mayor refused to speak to Ben at first is not an opinion, it is a fact.

It is too bad that no one else there chose to report on it other than Ben. Essentially, he is in the position of becoming part of the news, and we need balanced reporting on that rather than Ben’s reporting on that. But you are not going to get that in PG. So Opinion 250 reports it.

Asking the question he asked about inconsistencies in the presentation of materials is not opinion. It is factual. The information was public for weeks.

The thing I find interesting is the defensiveness of the people involved. Rather than saying that the information may be taken in several ways by people, and be done with it, they let their emotions and opinions about the individual who was posing the question get the better of them.

Ask yourself this. Had someone been on the phone and the question relayed by an individual who simply relayed the question, would the response have been the same? I doubt it.

So, investigative reporters take on a notoriety of their own. Watch a White House Press conference and you can see it in action.

Go ask a reporter you know and who was there as well, whether the statement of Ben’s that “Initiative Prince George boss Gerry Offet was obviously annoyed with the line of questioning” was true or not or whether that is just Ben’s opinion. Then ask him a bit more of an in depth question. Why has he not reported on it?

If Mr. Offet said: "This isn't reporting, this is muck raking." I would have to ask how he knew that since information was being gathered. It had not been reported on yet at that time.

I assume Mr. Offet would consider the fact that Ben published that statement to be muck raking.

Interesting topic KrisB.

So, you said you debate the issues on here. So far, on this issue you have made a statement that on this site “it is rarely presenting unbiased news from the region, but instead the opinion of the Meisner/Macdonald team.” That is an opinion, not necessarily fact. Fact would be pointing out a couple of instances that occurred - specific statements. To keep it simple, please state where the latter is true in the report at the top of this page.

You also said: “Now it's just mud-slinging between Meisner, Macdonald and many of the people that comment here.” Where have I, for instance, slung mud on this topic? Where have the Opinion 250 team slung mud on this topic?

Back up your statement with a bit more than just a statement. I have given you some backup to mine, and you know very well that is typically my methodology on here.

Hey Diplomat Owl, Lefty, etc....

See what happens (below) when you challenge the Administrators of this site, or make a comment that the site has deteriorated into a cabal of irrelevant complainers?

Free speech is a wonderful thing, as long as you control it...!

Don't get out of line now, you enlightened netizens.


Dear Sir (Edmund Burke):

I am writing to inform you that your privileges to comment
on Opinion250 have been revoked. Your comments have nothing to do
with the story at hand. We are sorry Opinion 250 has
not met your expectations. Perhaps you will be able to find
some other site that will allow you immediate, open access.

Sincerely

Elaine Macdonald

Publisher, Opinion250.com

>Hey Diplomat Owl, Lefty, etc....<

That's too bad, but the moderator has the privilege to control the site, always.

Perhaps a 12-24 hour delay between posting and eventual publishing would give the moderator more of an opportunity to evaluate each posting as to the content and then decide?

Most Yahoo Members Only Group sites have a code of conduct which one agrees to when joining up.

If you expect your comment to be posted you know what is expected of you and you comment accordingly, refraining from libel, slander, personal attacks, character assassinations and so forth.

Those who find that to be too restrictive or an infringement on their right of free speech may decide not to join at all.

Most groups fall apart if they allow a free-for-all... after a very short time.

Cheers!

I can sympathize with the "free speech" position.

However, let us put this into a bit of a context.

The local and other newspapers have considerable control over what gets published in their papers. That makes sites like this on the net look like free-for-alls.

No more than 400 word; no letter by the same individual more than twice a month; words may be edited for brevity, libelous content, etc.

In addition, just because you send something in, does not guarantee it will get published. Certainly, if one started to attack the newspapers, it would not get published.

So, in the big scheme of things, this is an improvement.

Having said that, there are some improvements I would love to see on the site.

One would be the ability to identify where the new comments are in relation to the last time I was at the site.

The other would be to have an "open" forum where one could post a local topic which has not been covered by the reporting on the site.

Another would be a larger text window into which to type a response.

Finally would be the ability to change font types, etc. to make posts more readable when introducing quotes, creating lists, etc.

Mea culpa ....

I just discovered the letter to the editor part of the site. Other than the oroginal post to let us know it is there, there is only one more post on there.

I wonder how many others did not know about it. Or is it simply not being used for other reasons?

>"...just discovered the letter to the editor part of the site..."

Letters to the Editor has 43 entries altogether.

http://www.opinion250.com/blogs/letters_to_the_editor/default.aspx

I wish that a contributor could somehow start a new topic.