Downtown..Give it a Rest:One Man's Opinion

Monday, June 19, 2006 03:45 AM

When Vancouver Consultant Gordon Harris , who was hired to do yet another stuffy about the downtown core, suggested this city would grow by 11,200 in the next ten years , he must be thinking that those brown trees which he should have seen all around him, were chocolate coated Pine.

To the contrary Mr. Harris, those trees which represent a substantial part of our forests in the central and northern part of the province, will dictate the size of this city come 2015.

If we are lucky enough to find some more jobs in mining, tourism, and perhaps even from a spin off of the Prince Rupert container Port, will it be enough to offset the thousand of jobs that will disappear in this region within the next ten years in the forest industry?

To suggest that we won’t be hard hit, is a "head in the sand" attitude. The only unknown at this time is how many jobs will be affected.

We do know that Quesnel will loss all but one of its lumber mills, the only mills expected to be left west of here are in Fraser Lake and Houston. In case the Harris Group doesn’t understand (which I might add a lot of local politicians don’t either) is that we feed on those small communities, when they go flat we go with them.

Take several thousand jobs off the regional market and you will have a repeat performance of what took place in this city in 1981, and again in the 90,s.

If Oil was to be our savior how come there hasn’t been one exploration permit issued in the Nechako basin? Yes mining may help but enough to offset the tumble inthe forest sector? Never.

There was one little tid bit in that report, and that was the acknowledgment that this city had a drop in population. If you ever listened to the mayor over the years, he had every excuse that could be manufactured from "they didn’t count us" to "there still are 81,000 people here" a figure which we never did attain and everyone outside of this region knew it.

As for the down town, I for one am waiting to see the major development take place.

So you move down town, but then, must own a car in order to get to where the shopping is in the city or to reach the areas of entertainment.

Selling that idea might be a tad tough Mr. Harris, just as it will be tough to convince people to buy condos on Quebec Street just down from the soup kitchen on Second or the shelter for the homeless around the corner .

We have legislated the down town into a second class area and no study will change that.

A developer who comes from California and sets up shop in this city will soon find that the city buried the down town long ago, there just hasn’t been a funeral held yet.

I’m Meisner and that is one man’s opinion.

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Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 03:45 AM in Views by Ben Meisner

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Comments

Posted by: owl on June 19 2006 9:05 AM

It seems we may have paid $140,000 or so for someone to tell some of the people in the community what they want to hear. A form of political correctness at its worst.

There was an interesting article in the GLobe and Mail on the weekend about the lack of diversity of opinion at Universities these days. I often think that in the case of Prince George, that can be extended to some other pockets in the the rest of society.

Your view will likely be seen as a bunch of nay-saying by leaders in this community. On the other hand, I suggest that if people do not address such opposing views and the challenges we are facing towards some undefined and common goal of "success" then the leadership is failing.

Unlike other products and services we purchase, such consulting work comes with no guarantees. It is merely another person's opinion. An expensive one at that.

http://www.workopolis.com/servlet/Content/fasttrack/20060617/COWENT17?section=Healthcare

Posted by: kimbo on June 19 2006 10:25 AM

"The only unknown at this time is how many jobs will be affected."
I have to disagree with you on the above statement, Ben. The economic effects and the jobs lost because of the mpuntain pine beetle are not an unkown. Check the Canada Natural Resources website. http://mpb.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/research/projects/completed_e.html

These are recent studies and have a wealth of info. I have tried to make some of the organizations that have been formed for the effects of the moutain pine beetle but they refuse to use the information.

Lets hope that when "New Blood" arrives at city hall a different attitude will prevail and more will be done to prepare for this disaster on the horizon.

Posted by: kimbo on June 19 2006 10:34 AM

Should read; I have tried to make some of the organizations "aware" of the effects.........

Posted by: trusted on June 19 2006 11:01 AM

I trust it is becoming increasingly difficult to "give it a rest" when people are becoming aware that the forecast problems are going to become stark reality-and prior to 2015.
Optimism is a great way of thinking for a future for this city, but greatness is not even a potential at this point and time.
We grab onto anything we feel could be a lifeline. Mining, oil and gas exploration, manufacturing, container port,etc., all the hopefuls!! All this uncertainty and we continue on with the waste of taxpayers money, and propose more wasteful spending.
A few athletes are not going to pay for an Ice oval or a huge sports complex. The general public in this city must remain involved in a survival mode, and hold down jobs to pay for the roof over ones head and the essentials. We may have a higher wage scale, but it gets eaten up rather quickly by increased costs and daily maintenance.
We are aware there are many wealthy people in Prince George who could become major investors- especially if they were to form conglomerates. That is not the nature of these people, and they are not prepared to risk their capital. Remember, the majority of people who have the resources are "older" if not "elderly." They are not prepared to suffer losses and have the worry of non success be an end result. They appreciate their security-and have no intention of putting it at risk. Outsiders see the "no faith" attitude and invest in a more progressive city.
Development in this city has been at a "standstill" at different times throughout the years. More often than not. City Hall has hardly been welcoming. People talk-and this negativity becomes widespread. Get enough residents unhappy with the manner in which this city hall operates-and newcomers are leery-and even the residents want out. Not healthy.
Our air quality also disturbs people-and who wants to breathe "foul" air on a regular basis.
Actually, pot holes and weed choked ditches are not the major drawbacks of this city.
If industry was promoted on a large scale-rest assured there would be adequate tax dollars to pave roads and cut weeds.
More jobs, more money, more residents to help pay taxes and more smiles on faces.
Happiness is not just a state of mind-it truly does come with happenings that bring joy.
Trust me.

Posted by: owl on June 19 2006 11:21 AM

This power point tells it like it is. Mike Patriquin and his co-presenters are in line with all others I have ever heard on this matter and the models which have been presented during meetings. I doubt there are many councillors at City Hall who have not seen this.

At least we are not as bad off asd the smaller communities, but as someone on here said, we are dependent on how the economy of those communities fare.

http://mpb.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/research/workshops/8-51/Stennes.pdf

So, let us cross our fingers and "hope" a few of the projects which are not forest-dependent come to pass. Let us strive to become more diverse such as Kamloops is.

Posted by: owl on June 19 2006 11:25 AM

If local people do not invest in their community, it tells you something. Who knows the local community better than those who live here?

Posted by: diplomat on June 19 2006 11:58 AM

I agree that potholes and weed-choked ditches may not be major drawbacks, but if you allow a whole number of average drawbacks to pile up together it surely wouldn't be very helpful for the promotion of anything that involves an influx of new industry and residents, because who wants to live in a city that looks as if nobody cares about what it looks like?

There is such a thing as a "Quality of Life" index and places like Kelowna and Kamloops probably are rated more positive than Prince George already.

That is why it is not good idea to ever give up on downtown revitalization as long as there is some life left in it because there are many instances where permanent downtown revitalization was achieved with new ideas and new money.

Kelowna grouped most of its recreational and cultural facilities together downtown and it is reaping the benefits of intelligent town planning and managing, whereas we have allowed the opposite to happen.

Posted by: owl on June 19 2006 5:14 PM

It is true that all the cultural and recretional facilities are adjacent to the downtown. That that is intelligent does not necessarily follow. There are a lot of buildings but little activity commercial activity. The shopping still takes place in the malls on Harvey in a vehicle orientated commercial strip which gets longer and longer.

The is growing, but it is sprawl city.

In case some have not seen it, here is an infill project in the "cultural district" which might try to change that. Don't know how that is doing. Certainly has more hipe to it and "design" to it and "promtion" to it than our San Francisco fella. Even with that, there is really no info there. No suite plans, no costs, no building amenities list ....

http://www.thecannerylofts.com

Here is the "real" thing from Yaletown http://hooperbuilding.com/index.html

and another from Cambie near the 2010 Olympic villagehttp://www.montreuxliving.com/index_flash.html

Posted by: kimbo on June 19 2006 5:34 PM

It is encouraging to see that there are some people in our comunity that are concerned about the quality of life. However there are alot that have no pride in commuity. I can drive down my street and spot every rental property on it (four). Take a drive down McIntyre Cresent and it looks like a getto. It is the landlord that should regulate how his property is cared for. We have bylaws to regulate the appearence of our property but no one will enforce them.

The unfortunate part is that there is no plan as has been stated many time. Tax base is all our City is concerned about. If you have ever had a need for information it is unbelievable the answers that they will provide and that starts with George Paul. Maybe the Mayor of Ft St John thnks he's a fine person. I have never phoned him but have certainly corresponded with him. My experience has been much different.

I notice in your post, trusted, you seem to be concerned about how our taxes are spent. In another post you expresed your opionon that my concern over tax expenditures was some what frivolous. So which is it?

Posted by: diplomat on June 19 2006 6:43 PM

Re Kelowna downtown. Let's assume you stay at the Travelodge across from the waterfront park.

You do not have a vehicle. Now, many of the main amenities are within walking distance: the Casino, the Fintry Queen, City Hall, the Museum, the Art Gallery, the Arena, etc. etc. There are some small malls and stores on Bernard Street and quite a few restaurants facing the waterfront.
The Masonic Hall is on Pandosy just around the corner and so forth.

Let's say you arrive in PG and stay at the Ramada: You need a taxi to go to the CN Centre, or the Aquatic Centre, another one to go the Playhouse Theatre, another one to go to the Treasure Cove Casino etc, etc.

Everything is spread out all over the place like a dog's breakfast.

That is my point about proper and improper planning and managing.

Posted by: Palopu on June 19 2006 7:03 PM

I have to agree with kimbo when it comes to rental properties, it seems that the landlords have no responsibility for their propertys. I suppose because our trusted servants at City Hall are on record as saying that our By-Laws are complaint driven, they do not have to do anything about these houses, unless someone complains.

I suspect that the bylaw officer would drive through a neibourhood and tell you not to water on your off day, however they would totally ignore 5 or 10 other bylaw infractions at the same time.

Without going into to much detail, one of the main problems with this City, and one which no one seems to care about is that we have a huge tax base for a City this size and the City in reality is rolling in Money, however the problem is that they find ways to spend it faster than they collect it, and as a consequence we are somewhere in excess of $92 Million in debt.

However this seems to have no effect on Council, who are still considering further Major Spending, and going further in debt.

Our Major Facilities such as Library, Arts Centre, Civic Centre, are under utilized and very costly to run. The CN Centre costs taxpayers $380,000.00 a year to operate, the list goes on. I can live with paying for the above, however we must get a handle on spending, and ensure that this money is directed into areas that will benifit the City over time.

There is no law against reducing taxes, their are just politicians who are incapable of doing it.

I would suggest that for a City this size, we have the best facilities, the highest tax base, the most RCMP and Fire Protection Officers, the most high paid staff at City Hall, the worst roads, and last but not least the highest debt.

We need to re-invent ourselves as a City and get our priorities straight.

Posted by: owl on June 20 2006 12:09 AM

Diplomat. I stayed at the Grand Okanagan Resort recently. Walked from there to the small hole-in-the-wall places (that is meant in a complimetnary way since I love such places rather than sterile modern franchises) on Bernard between Water Street and the Lake. The pedestrian activity was there.

The so called "Cultural District" is not pedestrian friendly. It is designed with the car in mind. There is some possibility with converting some older buildings standing around Cannery Lane. The only outdoor restaurant/pub anywhere in that area was associated with the hotel.

Our favourite little pub eatery is Tonics at the corner of Leon and Ellis, a bit of a walk, so we take the car.

As far as PG goes - stay at the Inn or Ramada and you have the library, City hall, the gallery, civic centre, the ice arena, and the pool with waterslide within walking distance. So far, it is no different than what is in the 2 by 4 or 5 block Cultural District in Kelowna except for two facilities, the museum and the CN Centre. Put a new Centre for the Performing Arts downtown one of these days, and we will be no different than Kelowna, except that the only sterile place we have to humanize a bit is the Civic Centre. Kelowna has a much larger area to contend with to make pedestrian friendly. Just because the buildings are new does not make it great.

Kelowna has a beautiful lakefront. It is too bad they gave so much of it away to private interests and stuck the cultural district inboard where the lake is not visible.

When people go to Prospera Place to attend an event, I doubt there are any who park downtown, eat at a restaurant, walk 5 blocks or so to watch the event, then walk back to pick up the car. In PG we have JJ's for before and after snacks.

Posted by: Palopu on June 20 2006 1:33 PM

Owl. Do you know anyone who stays at the Inn or the Ramada. Do you think people who do stay their are tourists, or business people?? Do you really beleive that they would use the facilities you have listed.

I have ventured into the Art Gallery, Civic Centre, Ice Areana etc on different occasions and must tell you that for the most part the only people present are employees.

I doubt anyone would come to this town to look at or go to these facilities. Why would they??? Even the local residents dont use them to any large degree.