475K for a stupid bus....what a rip off !
I would say not worth a dime over maybe 200K.
Man oh man the city knows how to waste tax dollars....yeesh

Right on Marty-and did they ask the taxpayers how they felt about these extravagant buses?
Good thing the city has a city Transit budget!
Like I always say, "No sense being poor and looking poor."
Just the taxpayers are eventually going to look poor.
The city doesn't lead us down a garden path-they lead us to the poor house.

Thank you KB for putting things back in perspective.

It's so easy to be critical. Especially when you are not the one having to be accountable or the one making the decisions. Chester

kb. No matter how you slice it the people who sold us the buses will get $2,375,000.00. You would have to save a H--- of a lot of fuel to get this money back. In fact you never will.

You probably beleive all the B.S. in regards to increased ridership on the buses in Prince George, there may be an increase of 400,000 riders per year, but what does this really mean???

Roughly speaking it means an increase of about 3.8 passenger per hour or approx 60 per day. Hardly a significant increase.

Take some time to look into the buses as they run around town empty and you will see that there is very little ridership.

The transit numbers are as nebulous as the Art Centre, Civic Centre, and Library numbers.

They were all probably compiled by Sargent Bilko.

kb. Your figures look good, however you cannot use the maximum number of 79 people per bus, because that number is never attained, on a regular basis.

The only number that is consistant on these buses is (1) One. That is the driver, the other numbers flucuate, but I doubt if the average per bus per day would ever exceed 40.

you forgot to mention the extravagant cost of maintenance in there KB.
Why did you neglect that part?
No way are thos buses just going to run for 20 years and not need substantial repairs.
like a new motor, transmission, diffs, wheel bearings, tires, brakes, starters, alternators, belts , hoses , radiators, heat and AC work, batteries, lights, wiring repairs, upholstery repairs, windshields, and the list goes on and on.
I own a couple big trucks, and pay far less for a semi with Cat power, 18 speed fuller, and full load cab with sleeper.
I can get a couple million kms out of a rig to, but not without lots of maintence just like any other vehicle.
And my rigs cost 1/3 of the price of a stupid bus!
And if you sit up atspruceland mall and watch the buses come and go i would say an average load is 5 to 7 passengers.

not 79, which is laughable to even comment on!

I guess we should be glad they did not purchase them new rides here at least....lol

http://www.newschannel5.com/content/investigates/20762.asp?q=BILL+HEARD

More buses for fewer people to ride. With thre subsidy of millions still. Oh joy!

Looks good on you Marty. Tell it like it is.
Owning trucks is a sure fire way to know what costs are to operate.
The fuel consumption is impossible to determine until they have run for about a year, and then the cost can be calculated, only if the truth is used for evidence. Any bets as to whether or not this will be even a remote possibility.
I would not hazard a guess as to what the Insurance and liability costs will come in at.
Spin us again, Kinsley, but I do feel a lot of the posters on this site are a bit wiser than you have a tendency to give them credit for.
I can honestly state I have yet to see a full bus in the city of Prince George.
I should live so long to see that event!

I like the part about how it didn't cost the city any extra to buy these gems!

You think these buses are expensive, try buying a fire truck! But one thing for sure the fire truck has as many people on it as the bus.

Y.D.P.C.

A fire truck is very costly yes.
But is also an emergency vehicle that has many many expensive additions to complete its task(s).

A bus is basically a hollow vehicle with a few seats bolted to the floor.
It has less equipment than say even a regular car or pickup, or minivan.
They do not even install seatbelts or airbags for the seated passengers.
I would like to hear the city tell us why a basic tube with a few cheap seats costs so much?
And to see a report on another municipality that has run these exact buses for 20 years, that shows how they got 20 years out of them, and what all was replaced/repaired in that 20 year span?
I bet they cannot show me this info, as they have no idea what the reality is!
I can say my new car will last me 20 years as well.
Sure it would need a lot in that time span, but i could do it.
Reality is i flip my vehicles at about the 4 year mark and buy a new one.
But I live in the real world where i have to pay for my own stuff....unlike the kinsley and crew who can just toss around other peoples money.
I bought myself a Dodge Magnum a few months ago....if i was spending say kinsleys money, i would maybe have purchased a new ferrari instead!

You people can never be pleased. Transit in PG has taken strides forward in the past year. Its called progress!

PG got some new buses that improve transit and look better driving around town...yet you complain.

If PG did not get any new buses, I bet you same people would complain about our run down transit fleet.

You will find something to complain about no matter what is done...i would love to see a document from one of you people outlining your strategic plan for our city. I bet it would be just perfect, with no questionable decisions whatsoever ;)

No Jigga, I do not complain about everything.
But when they blow nearly a half million per bus, it does piss me off, yes.
Its just a damn bus....why is it so expensive?
I would really like to have city hall show us in detail why they spent so much per bus.
And where is the written guarantee that these buses will really save us so much money over the long term.
I bet the city cannot provide this info.

An investment in public transit is one of the best investments that can be made by a modern city, especially one that resembles places like Surrey for being designed around the private automobile. Too many people in Prince George think that transit is for society's losers.

If you would care to look at the people in Vancouver/Surrey/and area using public transit you would see that they probably fall into the 40,000.00 a year or less catagory. A large number of people over 40,000.00 per year own a car and they will drive to and from work. Most will not take a bus or train, and most will not pool. The lanes in Vancouver that are restricted to cars having 2 or more passengers are never full.

In any event no one is complaining about the need for a good transit system in Prince George. What we are complaining about is the fact that we have spent $2,375,000.00 on 5 buses. This money came out of the transit budget, and therefore we can safely assume that if they did not spend it the budget would have to be reduced. Hence the big expenditure.

The City has spent every cent that it has collected in taxes in the last 50 years and increases taxes as it goes along. In addition to the taxes the City is approx 90 Million in debt.

With income of 58 Million a year in taxes, plus transfer payments from the Province, and other incomes, we probably spend $100 Million per year.

The problem is that Governments have to much money and are constantly trying to find ways to spend it. They are not fiscally responsible, and they should be. They seem to think that their job is to tax and spend, and abdicate their responsibility.

I doubt if similar Citys of this size in BC or other Provinces Spend the amount of money we do.

Certainly Nanimo, Kamloops, and Kelowna dont.

If you can remember, count the number of people you see on these buses, then draw your own conclusions as to if you think the money was well spent.

Just as a matter of interest these buses hold 79 passengers standing and seated. If anyone is interested the seating capacity is for 36 people, therefore a full bus would have 43 standing passengers. There has never in the history of busing in Prince George been a situation where people had to stand, therefore the need for a bus to hold 79 people is totally bogus. We could have purchased smaller buses, provided the same, or better service and saved a huge dollars.

Get my drift? Thats why we have to complain, because of the total disrespect for taxpayers dollars.

Palopu,

well said!

People who do not ride the bus currently, are not suddenly going to leave the car home and ride the bus because it looks prettier than the old ones.
And a bus with a capacity of 20 people would usually be more than enough.
In reality a bus that holds 8 would do okay, but then on the rare occasion it would not hold enough, which is why i suggest them to hold up to 20 passengers.
I would think if the city purchasers had any brains they would have purchased mini buses and saved a lot of money and in the end fuel, and even insurance as the rates are also based on amount of passengers.
Its a bit like driving a dump truck to the corner store to get a loaf of bread.
Ya you can do it, but why bother.

When they build a "Skytrain " from Beaverly into town, I might sell one of my autos.

S.S. I live in Beaverly as well, so we could ride it together....lol

But then again, I would just drive instead I am pretty sure.
Its only 15 minutes in, and i need to support the gas and tire companies ya know. ***wink***

Seen some of the new buses running around town. Between 4 and 10 people sitting., no one standing. Numbers should increase as the weather get colder and gas prices continue to rise. May get up to 15/20 sitting, no one standing.