Good God, when will the hype and BS ever stop. These guys should all take a vacation for about two years and freeze the Government. We would certainly be better off.

Why would anyone think that a Municipal Mayor should be responsible for flying around the Country pretending to be a salesmen for this Province. We have Provincial/Federal/ people for this business, plus private enterprise.\

Doesnt Hansen know that the $800,000.00 playback system for the CN Centre in being finianced $300,000.00 by the Province, and $500,000.00 by the taxpayers of Prince George. I wonder what kind on return on investment he thinks we will get out of this venture.

This Province has had strong Asian links for the past 100 years, and have been trading with Japan and South East Asia for the past 60/70 years. There is nothing new here. Even the hype is starting to get old.

Okay guys.....

For the final question on your Regional Economics 507 exam, worth 50% of the full exam here is the question for which you are given 2 hours to complete. You may use any tools at your disposal. Marks will be given based on ability to institute the strategies and the risks involved in a do nothing scenario compared to a scenario which implements your strategies. Verification of whether they will be effective will be determined primarily by referencing similar approaches in other parts of the world which have proven to be successful.

Here is the question:

You are the BC Minister in charge of economic development. You have come up with an economic plan specific to the greater PG area for the next 10 years.

What are your objectives for PG - in other words, what will the economic climate be like at the end of the 10 years compared to now and how will you achieve it. Use point form to indicate what your strategies will be?

That could be your first post.

The second or additional posts could deal with each specific strategy to define each in a bit more detail and referencing them to successful economic planning in other parts of the world.

Linking to a page where you have created a short report, rather than posting something like that here, will be acceptable and desirable in order to make it easier to format the information in an easier to read version.

:-)

"it will feature the wood products Prince George is famous for"

Pine Beetle killed wooden key tags?

;-)

Never know whether your serious or not Owl, in any event the best investment that I have heard about in years took place recently in Africa I beleive. The new thinking is to make loans available to poor people, who have never in their lives had a chance to do anything. This is a relativly new concept, however it has some good potential. One case was given as an example. This actually happened last year.

A women with a husband and two children was loaned $4.00, this was the biggest amount of money she had ever had in her life. She went out and bought a hair clipper, a comb, and a pair of sissors, which she gave to her husband. He in turn stared to cut hair. Within one year they had a better place to live. The children had clothes, and they were eating on a regular basis. She repaid the loan. This is a great success story, and their will be more to come.

You can see from the foregoing that given an opportunity some people can make a huge success, while others will just stand around with their hands out waiting for more Government money.

We need to create a climate where people can access money to create business, or employment, and make a living. This climate has been killed off in BC, with the Government thinking that it is their responsibility to make things happen. The best thing this Government can do it get its lousy hands out of our pockets, and its nose out of our business. We are a bunch of Government hand-out welfare bums.

We should cut Government Employess by 20% Cut taxes by 20% discontinue giving money to Municiplaties to throw into the wind, and get back to the basics. This City spends more money than any other City of its size in Canada, and is in debt, and has plans to spend Millions more.

We do not need four levels of Government, all competing with each other for our tax dollars, spending all our tax dollars, and then going on Radio, TV, and Luncheons at our expense to tell us what a great job they are doing. They always seem to forget that they are well paid to do a job, and its expected of them.

We need a major reduction in all taxes, and a major reduction in Government Employees, and that for a start would put a lot more money into peoples pockets and get some things going.

There are two types of people in this Country. Those that work for the Government, and those that work for a living. There is a huge difference between the two on how they think, and how they work, and how they produce.

As an example a person who works for a private employer or for himself, if he misses a days work, runs the risk of losing business, losing money, or getting fired. If a Government employee misses a days work he gets paid for it.

I understand your view of my post. In my view it could be taken as a long form of what is more and more often these days posed in a much shorter version when one critiques without suggesting alternatives. That question goes something like: “If you don’t like what I am doing, tell me how you would do it.”

Of course, it also comes in a directive form: “If you do not like it the way we are doing it, you do it!”

But I was hoping you and/or others would bring forward some other ideas.

The banking example you cite is an example which I am familiar in and found intriguing when I first heard of it.

The fellow you are speaking about is from Bangladesh – Muhammad Yunus. As you say, he lends money to those who normally would not be able to lend money. He does require, however, the purpose for the loan to be disclosed so that he can determine what risk there is in making the loan. I understand he also charges 20% interest.

Here is the site of his family of businesses: http://www.grameen-info.org
Go to “grameen family” to see the tree of businesses generated from the money taken in from the loans. If you explore it a bit you will notice that the enterprise began in 1976, 30 years ago, and has just recently hit the world scene in its recognition.

Here is a site of an organization which is building on his model: http://ascendalliance.org

Here is what happens to the idea as established banks are made aware of it. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061114/bs_afp/usbankingpoverty


Let me go back to the founding year of 1976. It just happens to be the same year that Apple was founded. A year earlier Microsoft was founded by a bunch of nerds and hippies. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5e/Microsoft-Staff-1978.jpg

Interestingly enough, that has now grown an arm similar to Yunus’ operation, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm

Are there similarities? Certainly the one you cite – invest in people.

So, instead of government deciding which people to invest in, perhaps we should be more reliant on banks to making that decision. Sounds fiscally responsible at first glance. But the fact that the Yunus’ and the Gates’ of the this world end up being the show pieces of that might tell us that banks are a bit too cautious. Not only that, but banks on this continent are too used to living off people with plastic in their pockets and using it to lend money at 22%.

As far as government having killed off investment climate, I cannot buy into that. Anyone who has a good idea, can convince a bank, can get money in this country for considerably less than 20%. The key is that it needs to be viable. The proposals for downtown residences, for instance, are not considered viable by lenders. Only the proposal for a gambling casino is viable.

So, banks and private foundations versus government. Who has the most e3mployees and who makes the most money? You think the mayor of a city or the head of a country make money? Bank and industrial CEOs and higher management as well as line professionals will put any government to shame. Call it the true hidden tax, the money the consumer is willing to spend to get another gizmo which outdates the two year old gizmo they hardly ever use. That money goes to those who create the useless gizmos which are transported all over the world, soon right past the residents on the north side of the Nechako to the sound of rumbling trains at night.

To me, Palopu, it is all the same old thing, only in slightly different clothes.

I thought maybe someone would bring up the question of whether PG should grow larger rather than better. You see, you went right to a solution. Not to what you feel this community should aspire to. For instance, what is the north standing up for? I have not heard that from the Stand Up for the North group. All I hear on here is gimme, gimme, gimme.

An interesting discussion, nevertheless.

"As an example a person who works for a private employer or for himself, if he misses a days work, runs the risk of losing business, losing money, or getting fired. If a Government employee misses a days work he gets paid for it."

I have been in the work force in private businesses as well as governmetn, and have been in business for myself as well. I cannot buy into that from my point of view. I simply have never envountered that personally nor have I ever seen that in action. Perhaps at some very low level of work, such as farm workers. There are laws in place where such instances would be very rare, whether in government or in private industry.

As far as private business, at least single person businesses where you have no one to cover the business, not only are there insurances for such cases, but one can also go into an agreement with another company that will take over the project or service until you return. If you are any good at what you do, most clients in cases where time is not of the essence, will understand and not dump you. If they did, unless it is for a long term illness, I would not want such a client anyway.

We need everyone promoting our city, our province and our country. Not just Business people, or Mayor's, or Provincial politicians. Everyone.

We either have something to offer the public, or we don't. Those who don't think we do, should get out of the way of those who do.

Our biggest challenge is to get over our negative attitudes and begin to get involved in making our community a better place to live. Not just yap about things, but get to work doing something about it. Chester

I don't understand. Colin Hansen says we need to think bigger and plan for our future economy on the one hand, and on the other John Rustad is saying we need to build a resource bridge south of College Heights? Wouldn't an industrial traffic bridge as part of a ring road be more in line with the thinking bigger approach?

Time Will Tell

I don't understand. Colin Hansen says we need to think bigger and plan for our future economy on the one hand, and on the other John Rustad is saying we need to build a resource bridge south of College Heights? Wouldn't an industrial traffic bridge as part of a ring road be more in line with the thinking bigger approach?

Time Will Tell

Sorry, computer going all funny on me freezing and mouse going crazy. Double post as a result. Had to unplug from the internet to type. Need to get fixed.

The bridge south of College Heights is part of a "ring road" which has been "on the books" for decades.

Unlike a city like Winnipeg, and many older cities in the rest of the world, which does have a true "ring" road, it would be difficult to build one like that right now. In fact, it would likely never be built. It would require much more traffic and a much larger population.

Maybe when the city is at the 500,000 level in 3010 the completion of the ring to the west can be built.

BTW, I did not realize John Rustad has been saying that. When was this reported?

I take you up on it, Owl.

IMO I would like to see PG regroup, take care of what it already has instead of "more, more, more". More what? More pollution, more cars, more crime. more unpaved streets, more poverty, more industry impacting neighbourhoods?

Let's re-group, take a good look at our community and make it "better". Let us sit back, take a look and plan properly. No more bogus meetings at City Hall supposedly involving the citizens when the decision has already been made.

We need a credible citizens watch group.

There's mine, Owl

Like Palopu I am amazed at all the bs and hype about things like the "inland port".
Kathy Scoutens using Huntsville, Alabama (her only and hence best example of an inland port)as something PG could be is laughable --- Huntsville about 160,000 pop with a trading area of about 500,000. Huntsville, home to a military base, Marshall Flight Centre, Toyota plant employing about 500 and Boeing employing about 2500. Huntsville with more engineers per employed persons than any place in the US. I recall when Boeing moved that production to Huntsville what a hue and cry there was in Seattle because of the tax breaks they got in Huntsville ---- is PG and BC going to provide cheap labour and taxes and all the free infrastructure to attract like factories ---- not likely. Is the northern interior going to become a huge market like the SE US that supports activity that happens at Hunstsville? Not likely in my lifetime.
Geez, makes my mind spin.

Owl would you like the 32,000,000 economists in Canada respond to your challenge? Many of us are down to earth type of people we believe in family and making a living. It is just rediculous to see our polticians walking with their head in the clouds and then falling over small obstacles like community spirit.

And I have to agree bigger is not better but quality out performs them all. I have left my phone number on this site to talk to people that are interested in forming a Tax Payers Association but never ever got one call. However it is great to see the people taking on the asphalt plants to clean up their act.

Cheers

I am self employed and one of those people who, when sick lose the opportunity to make money. That having been said, i think it is , well immoderate and more to the point silly to suggest that the key to anything is to do away with a lot of the rules and govt jobs and just let the freebooters run the show. While I have survived quite nicely on my own i know it isnt for everyone and i would like to think that people can choose safe, secure jobs, with benefits if they want them.
Here is my partial answer to the test question. 1: the key to a better, healthier, more prosperous PG is stability. I have been through a couple of slumps now and i have seen what they do to people. We have to try to reduce the severity of our economic mood swings. Also, even in good times, the common view that we are going to go into another recession here dampens peoples optimism for the future in PG. I have a lot of kids. I want some of them to stay here when they grow up. I dont want to have to support them because we have double digit unemployment again. Stability can be increased by diversifying our industrial base (including other resource extractions, and an inland port) or by non resource based industries, such as the UNIV. or, even better, by decentralization of services, such as relocation of non store front head offices or ICBC or workers comp, or what have you. If the govt is really serious about saving us from the after effects of MPB then they could put a nice big office where their mouth is. We can also perhaps make PG more stable by retaining older people. If we have more services/facilities for retirees i think there are a lot of folks who would not leave as soon as they could swing the payments on the new house in kelowna. (ok maybe we need some help from global warming on that one)
2: we need to deal with our environmental issue. That is to say, the pulp mills effect on the air in the bowl. I realise there are always going to be problems in the bowl. It s a geological problem. We need, however to reduce the health and quality of life impacts down there.
3: we need to increase the amount of commercial land available so that the price of commercial land will fall to more friendly levels. Frankly, there is so logic in promoting business for PG when you are then going to rob them for a little piece of land to do it on. We are not short or land here. oops more to follow

4: we need to develope infrastructure in terms of water supply, sewer, that kind of thing. The trend is and up here should remain towards living out of city center. we need to develope areas out of the bowl so people can live there. Lets face it, prince george has a lot to offer in terms of affordability, beautiful weather and open semi rural environment. Most of these benefits are most readily realised outside of the bowl.
5: We need to stop talking about the beetle epidemic as the last gasp of the forest industry in PG. It isnt. I wonder , given the long standing trend in the industry towards labour reduction, hwether the falldown effect which will occur in 10 or 12 years will be all that noticable? (As a side note, i can safely say that the fall down effect is nothing new. I learned about its inevitability in 1985! Also, my wife was teaching foresters about the very high likelihood of a pine beetle epidemic about 10 years ago., but dont get me started)
6: i am a recent convert to the idea of twinning the damn highway, not only from here to vancouver, but to the peace as well. Old WAC Bennet had the right idea. Infrastructure is the key to building up the north. If we have to pay for the olympics, lets get some stuff up here while the money is flowing. We all know who will be the first to get cut off when the money supply starts to dwindle. ANd lets get a few more INDOOR ICE RINKS while we are at it.

Now i forget, what was the question again?

I heard from a biologist that the falldown would be 20 to 30 years and that the wildlife needed the trees

Hey Kimbo, where can I find your phone number? They stop the blogs after three days. We need a taxpayers association.

Cheers

Owl I disagree. PG is the only city of its size that funnels its industrial traffic though its town center where it will do the most harm to the air shed in a bowl environment.

For me it is a matter of health and traffic safety more than it is an issue of a need for more roads. That said we can not ignore the simple fact we have choke points like Peden Hill and soon all of Central and 16 west. The time to built the ring road is today and not another 30 years from now.

#1) A ring road eliminates thousands of heavy truck traffic from the bowl each and every day reducing industrial emission problems in an overloaded air shed. PG has no future as a pollution bowl.

#2) A ring road takes the dangerous goods and heavy traffic out of the town center giving PG a safety factor in this regard. The choke points are now at their limit already.

#3) A ring road reduces the travel time from Quesnel to Vanderhoof by a half hour including 7 sets of traffic lights.

#4) A ring road does not have to be a four lane highway, but rather a two lane road would do just fine. In 3010 when we need a four lane highway because PG grows to 150,000 people than we can think about making it a four lane highway.

#5) A industrial ring road says to investors this is where we would like you to build your factories and this is our commitment to an industrial container port as well as the air cargo port that is proposed.

#6) A ring road activates a huge industrial land base for competitive use by those looking at our future infrastructure.

#7) A new ring road could be used as an incentive to move the paving companies out of Otway (from the bowl air shed) to a more appropriate place that is economical for building a ring road and is downwind from the city likely in the North East as that is where the wind blows 90% of the time. Again enhancing the liveability of the bowl area air for long-time residents.

#8) A new ring road could see the establishment of an industrial park out Shelly that would see industrial polluters establishing themselves in serviced areas that do not add to pollution in the bowl area.

#9) A new ring road means we do not need to twin the Fraser crossing at the BCR site saving $60 million towards a much cheaper ring road foundation, nor would we need to replace the Cameron Street bridge at $30 million. Ring road total cost would be under $150 million and would have a greater impact on PG than the University did.

#10) The first phase of the ring road should be the North side through Shelly to Salmon Valley for the simple reason we need to relocate the paving companies out that way and establish industrial serviced land close to an existing dormant BC Hydro hub thereby using existing infrastructure to aid in removing polluters from the bowl air shed. This first phase should be paid for by the province of BC for highway infrastructure as well as the health care budgets.

The second phase South of College Heights should be paid for 100% by the federal government as part of the trans Canada highway infrastructure.

Conclusion: Most of the land in question is on existing dead end roads or crown land unlike the situation in other cities of PG size. PG is a hub of highway commerce for all of Western and Northern Canada and should be funded appropriately. PG pays more than its share to fund this project in resource taxes. Our health in the air shed of PG is worth the cost. The liveability of PG with clean air is a must. The economics of it can not be ignored, nor can the potential economics in the future. Road safety should be everyone’s concern, and we do not need this kind of traffic funnelled through our town center killing its economics going forward into the future any longer IMO.

Time Will Tell

Owl, Rustad spoke of a resourse road in the Citizen a couple of weeks ago when they canceled the Fraser crossing. I like that he is coming around, but he was wrong on a couple of points.

First one being that South of College Heights is federal trans Canada and not provincial so unless he wants to lobby Dick Harris?

The second thing is terming it as a resource road does not show any foresight beyond the forest industry and maybe why he feels its should be funded provincially?

Some good posts .....

Sorry, being a private consultant has its ups and down, talking about having to be on one's own. Today was oe of those days when too much piles up at once with deadlines. Pulled an allnighter to get stuff in on time. But relaxing time is here now. So will go out tonight to be with friends.

I will give my thoughts on here once more tomworrow, assuming this is still open to post. Seems everyone is starting to repeat themselves. I think we all know where most of us stand. Nice to see a few others popping in here now and then.

I like most of caranmacil's thoughts, as well as goode olde foo738. I cannot disagree with Chadermando either. I think you misinterpeted something I wrote. I'll post about that later. If you hae google earth, and have never been to Winnipeg, look at the ring road around Winnipeg. Even the airport is located inside the ring, not outside.

Owl I look foreward to your thoughts on my ideas for economic development. I feel everything else is contingent upon the infrastrucutre in place at this point in time. The focus should be on cleaning PG's air shed and improving our transportation economics. I see no better way of doing that, better yet no better way of doing it with senior levels of government tax dollars and not the local tax payer dollers.

The question we all need to ask of our locally elected politicians at the senior levels of government should include,

"Why do the Fed and provincial levels of government insist on making tax dollers from PG while poisoning us in the process when our health concerns should be a priority before the export of our resource royalties?"

"Is the fed and provincial tax windfall from this region tainted by a lack of responsibility to the citizens who make the tax windfall possible?"

"If PG imports a manufacturing base does that not help out all of Canada?"

I am hard pressed to think of one doller invested in infrastructure by our federal government attributed to our local MP's in government? I have also never heard of our federal MP's talking with our provincial MLA's on a way to coordinate their efforts?

I think MP Dick Harris for one is a tough love MP, so I am still trying to figure out why he feels he needs to be elected other than for self sacrifice of our region for his political gain? Any thoughts on Dick Harris achievements would be great to hear. A classic case of a guy elected for an ideal (reform) he fronts but does not represent.

Sorry Foo738 I have withdrawn my offer. As a senior I have discovered on a couple of my efforts that seniors should be herd and not seen. I also was very dissappointed when I made the offer that there was no respnose.

However if a tax payers organization were formed I would be more then pleased to take an active part. As a suggestion the group that has formed for the asphalt problem may consider too broaden their scope and become involved in other activities within the City.

Cheers

The idea that if we improve our transportation inforstructure will improve our economy is some what outdated. There is an artical in a recent issue of Macleans magazine that talks about the folly of how we travel and move our goods. If we are at all concerned about polution we will have to change our ideas on transportation.

Traffic engineers take it from there.

Cheers

Kimbo, have you tried the Active Voice Coalition. I found them to be somewhat like a tax payers organization and they are always open to new ideas. If I had more time I would be more involved, but my work is not very predictable so it buggers up my ability to participate as much as I would like.

I agree we have to change our approach to transportation. Funnelling highway traffic through town centers is a major cause of pollution.