Driver certification.....
might be needed but..
sounds like a fancy name for a cash grab...

Recently I was tailgated by a loaded logging truck when I was going slower than the posted speed limit because there was some black ice on the highway. Driving according to the road conditions didn't seem to occur to that driver.

Look around you...driving according to conditions is a rare occasion for any vehicle, big or small. One big problem that gets ignored completely, is the impact that small vehicles have on big vehicles. Small vehicles darting around in poor road conditions very often put drivers of big vehicles in jeopardy.

The nuts and bolts of this, however, is that all the training and certification in the world doesn't help anybody drive on roads that are so poorly maintained, you can't stand up on them.

I stopped to help a motorist who was having trouble, he got out to talk to me, slipped and fell on the road and cracked his head, causing a bleeding gash. Now he's not only stuck, but on his way to get stitches too.

If she really wants to have an impact, she should jump in a sand truck.

Talking about driver training is only a diversion from the real problem of poor road maintenance.
Look at all the frequent highway closures we are having these days.

One of the things not spoken about when noting that drivers should drive to suit the conditions is that it is not only weather and road conditions, but also driver experience, driver condition, and vehicle condition.

Thus, a driver who is tired, drives on a highway once a year to see a friend in Vanderhoof, has balding tires, no studs, windshield which is partly frozen up because wipers and windshield heater do not work properly, etc. etc. should be travelling at a much slower speed for exactly the same road and weather conditions as someone who is wide awake, has new, high quality, studded winter tires, is a driving instructor who certifies professional drivers, drives 40,000 km per year on highways with a good portion of that on winter highways, etc. etc.

I suspect very few drivers look at things in that way and just scratch their head wondering how come a driver is driving that slow.

So, the best thing to do is to sit back, relax and realize that the conditions you are under and the condition others are under can be considerably different.

"Snowflakes don’t kill people!"

Neither does water kill people. Until you drink too much, or get immersed in it.

I find such comments to be rather glib, especially when weather conditions are one of the key factor in accidents. Such comments from a person dealing with safety really do not do much to improve the situation.

While drivers share responsibility, I agree 100% that road maintenance conditions are key factors, especially since something can be done about them.

Roads are closed due to avelanche danger in parts of the province. I think we should look at road closure more often due to weather conditions around here as well. That alone would assist in making people more aware of what conditions are reasonable and which are not.

People have to go where people have to go, whatever the conditions. We need to maintain the roads to a driveable condition for the inexperienced driver, whatever his or her weakness or handicap may be, then the experienced driver will find his/her way without troubles.

As someone who has attended 1000's of accident scenes, in all kinds of road and weather conditions, I can tell you this:

- we can't control how people drive

- we can't convince people to drive at 20 km/h all the way because that happens to be the safe speed for the road conditions, people need to go where people need to go and we all have time constraints to deal with, these days more than ever

- vehicle condition is rarely more than a slightly contributing factor, not causal at all, people with ill-equipped vehicles usually are the ones who are unable to go anywhere

- driver condition is a contributing factor where it causes impairment to a significant degree, otherwise not a factor

- experience is definitely a factor, which is why we need to maintain roads to a driveable standard. You shouldn't need 40 years experience teaching people how to drive super trains in 4 feet of snow, to go to Vanderhoof safely.

- driving too fast for conditions, following too closely is another contributing factor. This becomes a factor when people are driving the speed limit on icy roads, passing vehicles when visibility is very poor, following right behind another vehicle even if you can't see it because of the flurries

- a great many of the serious accidents I have attended in bad weather, involved the road being maintained to a certain standard and driveable at a certain speed, then everything changed 80 feet down the road. It became very slick, they were unable to take speed off quickly enough, or when they tried to, they lost control.

Many people who drive for a living in Northern BC, sometimes misjudge road conditions. Go look at all the highway trucks in the Pine Pass during a snowstorm to see for yourself.

If professional drivers are having a hard time with it.... what makes anybody think you are going to certify a 70 year old person who drives 4500 km total per year, to drive in any kind of conditions, and not have to maintain the roads ?

The comments made in the story are "shoot from the lip" type comments, which are generally made by people who are not knowledgeable about the issue and trying to sound like they have it all figured out. A person who drives a garbage truck in Vancouver for 20 years is perfectly capable of taking a log truck down a gravel road. It doesn't do him any good, though, when he has to take that loaded log truck down a steep icy hill that hasn't been maintained. Tire chains are an "assist" not a "cure".

In any event, I predict that Road Safe (an obvious holding pond for presently unneeded displaced government deadweight) will accomplish nothing as long as they continue to dance around the issue of road maintenance. Anybody who mentions as many possible causes to accidents as she did, and fails to mention road maintenance as one of them, is obviously gingerly tap-dancing around it, because they were told to by their superiors. The equivalent of the hired hand quieting the chickens, while the farmer sharpens the axe.

We don't want them to know we are not maintaining the roads properly, so tell them it is all their fault. Tell them they need more training.

We are all so dummm anyway....

I would venture to say that the standards for a truck driver are actually higher than the standards to work for Road Safe, a government propaganda machine, which in all of it's existence has yet to accomplish anything of substance.

>:-p

You have full support from me on that TRM. Yuo hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned on every single thing you said.

We need to do something, and we are not doing the right thing, or maybe better, not doing ALL the right things because some of them are too costly, too difficult, and will even show liability of reponsible parties to a greater extent than it has been accepted.

BTW, do not get me wrong about the road closures as being the solution.

As someone stated on another thread, a few road closures by the RCMP or the MoT (if they are objective) will cause some bureaucratic and political friction which may show up publicly and push changes.

The scariest thing I see on the roads these days are young women say 16-24 driving small cars, speeding, dodgeing in and out of traffic, talking on the cell phone, smoking, chewing gum, fixing their hair and quite often talking to a baby in the back. You get a lot of guys doing the same, but it seems that there are more and more young women who dont seem to realize how catastrohic a car accident at high speed can be.

I think I would sooner drive a logging truck here than a Garbage Truck in the Greater Vancouver area.

Our highways in this area are terrible and have been for a number of years. When it comes to getting funding for highways we get the short end of the stick.

I can tell you this. If you were to build a private highway that had to be certified by the Provincial Government before you could use it, and it was in the condition of the Highways in this area with all the water filled ruts caused by trucks etc; you would never get it certified. In addition if you allowed people to drive on such a highway and they were involved in an accident that could be contributed to the Highway you would get your butt sued off. The Provincial Government doesnt have this problem.

Our Highways are a serious safety hazard and one has to wonder just how many accidents are a direct result of these poor Highways.

Zactly....but according to Road Safe, if we all carry a second driver's licence it will make everything OK.

I can see where the water-filled ruts are and drive a foot or so over to the side. I am sure many others do as well.

The scariest thing I see is when I am in Richmond driving a rental car and having to watch out what the asian women do or do not do when they drive. They can afford beamers and lexus' and mercedes' but have a hard time looking over the steering wheel.

I am not one to bring in racial differences, but I have never seen such a singular identifyable group of bad drivers in my life. I wonder if they are involved in more accidents or not. I suppose it would not be allowed to keep such racial based data.

"we all" would be professional drivers. There is no intent to certify private drivers. We are not certifyable. Only professional drivers are. :-)

I'm certifiable...ask my doctor.
;-)

Most professional drivers are good, its the "unproffessional" drivers in those pickups that are the worst offendors. Thats what I have notices alot in my driving around doing deliveries.

I agree DPJ, a
nd those who are too lazy to sweep off their vehicle or scrape the windshield, so they can see, before leaving home.
Beeing able to see i think would be a good thing..
But I have to say there really seems to be a lot of , for lact of a better word, BAD, drivers out there. Both the professional and non-professional.
I am not sure the answer but maybe this "ME" world that has developed might have something to do with this and other things too.

WOW. I actually agree with all of the above comments, and I can be quite disagreeable at times. I especially like the "holding pond" comment, TRM. Reminds me of that joke about how certain people sneaked into the gene pool when the lifeguard was looking the other way.
Too often the media reports that road conditions were to blame for a crash, and who believes the media more than the government? Except this time they want us to believe that more training will save the day, BOLLOCKS! The loss of common sense in our everyday lives is what drives me around the bend (no pun intended) You have to be certified for everything these days! How about a certification course to work for government, or one of the many agencies? No, that would'nt work, we would soon be over run with idiots.
metalman.