Don't we pay enough city taxes as well as gasoline taxes, federal taxes now? I guess the cops better get out there and catch more drivers with no seatbelts, speeding etc to donate more money to the city to plug up some of the craters in the roads.

This is absolutlely unbeleivable. What the *H* do we pay taxes for. When will the taxing end.

For starters lets repair the Cameron St. Bridge for $724,000.00 and then take the 7 Million we saved and apply it to road repairs.

Next lets not build a new police station and instead renovate the present one. We could save approx 10 Million from this and apply it to roads.

Next lets not build the Co-Generation plant to heat building and any money saved from this endeavour should be applied to roads.

Next lets take the money that was to be saved by getting a new garbage disposal system, and apply that money to roads.

Next lets look at Staffing at City Hauls and try and get a reductions of about 10% should be significant saving here, that we can apply to roads.

Next lets take the money the City receives from the Gambling proceeds and apply these to roads.

Next lets take the money from the Gas Tax and apply it to roads.

Next lets apply the money from the Teresan Gas deal and apply it to roads.

Next lets take the money that we have been taxed on for the past years, and apply it to roads.]

Next lets quit building sub divisions so far out of town that you need miles, and miles, of roads to get there, millions of dollars in maintenence, and snow removal. We have sub divisions from the turn off at Foothills and Chief Lake Road to the far end of College Heights and to Haldi Road.
Must be at least 20 Miles. Just because the City Limits are a 10 Mile radius from the Centre, doenst mean we have to establish sub divisions in every corner. This puts a huge stress on the tax dollars.

If there is going to be a tax levy then it should be assessed in direct proportion to the number of miles you have to travel to get to your house. Therefore if you choose to live 10 or 15 miles from the City Centre then you can pay a higher portion of the road and maintenace costs than a person who choses to live on say Carney St., or the millar addition. Get it???? User pay

Use the Terasen money, it was to end our money problems.

I am somewhat confused since at the Council session in December 2006 the Mayor remarked that he gets a lot of angry phone calls about the poor condition of our roads but that he personally doesn't agree that they are bad at all, in fact he believes they are pretty good!

Obviously then the extra taxes wouldn't go to improve the roads because " they are not bad."

Where would the money go in reality???

More tax? Are they nuts? Come on now Mr. Don Zurowski you where in Business once. Cut the City expenses they are going up and there appears to be no accountablity. Get the logging and other trucks off our streets. It is not the average car busting up the roads.

Obviously no-one on Council is on a "fixed" income. There are no raises or extra 4% when one is in that category.
I agree with Palopu. It's all the travelling into the City from outlying sudivisions plus the heavy truck traffic that causes the major deterioration to the roads.
People in the bowl have long subsidized the Hart Highway and other subdivisions.
User Pay is the only fair way to go.
Also, if they proceed with the Cameron Street fiasco it should be "tolled".

A levy of up to 4%..............of what our assesments???????????????/

Maybe time to put this new city manager to the test.
If he can control this Mayor and Council he will prove himself to be very very capable.
If he can't, well, we all know what the end result will be-now don't we?
Back to square one-and once more biting the bullet and emptying the pockets.
When are the residents of Prince George going to say,"Enough already?"

Quit giving money to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that comes to city council begging for money. We dont't have to make everyone happy. These special interest groups are breaking us. Get on with doing city business instead of looking after the arts council, or the art gallery, or the symphony, the Northern Sports Centre, The Multiplex, the Civic Centre, and other stupid wastes of money like this. Stop all the trips abroad and the lunches and other perks for our esteemed city leaders. Let's get the roads fixed before we start to think of ourselves as a "large city". We aren't a "large city" and anyone that thinks we need all these things should take a reality break.

I agree that the tax base is sufficient to cover the cost of capital road projects as well as road repairs. City council needs to look at their expenditure side of things. Obviously expenses need to be shifted and not an increase in taxes.

Not only is city council incapable of making tough decisions competently, worse yet they never seem to have a coherent strategy let alone stick to any vague strategy they did purport to have.

"People in the bowl have long subsidized the Hart Highway and other subdivisions."

I thought Hart Highway subdivisions were within city limits....therefore paying city taxes...

I like the ditches the city subsidizes in the Hart. ;-)

Almost forgot about all the great parks they have up there....

"People in the bowl have long subsidized the Hart Highway and other subdivisions."

In fact, it is the other way around.

"People in the bowl have long subsidized the Hart Highway and other subdivisions."

The statement is an emotional one. There is no measure we have which tells us that it is more expensive to provide services for a house on 9th avenue between Vancouver and Winnipeg, versus a house off Domano, versus the new houses going up around DP Todd versus a house on Chief Lake Road.

The SMART people on Council support SMART development, but they are not SMART enough to come up with a measuring stick to let us know what the really SMART development looks like.

Intuition tells me that the house on 9th supports a similar priced house on Chief Lake road as well as off Domano, but there is no objective measuring stick. Intuition also tells me that the more expensive houses, no matter where they are support the below averaged assessed house, but again, no objective measuring stick is provided. It would be relatively yeasy to do. If we did that, then we would finally find out what true infill housing REALLY looked like. The stuff Council and the planning department accept as infill housing in this city is ludricous.

People in the bowl have long subsidized the Hart Highway and other subdivisions."

In fact, it is the other way around.

Is this how we plan to dispute the levy by finger pointing ? Come on lets do it together or we'll be stuck with more taxes. But maybe we have to many people in our community that think they can do it all by themselves.

Cheers

"Not only is city council incapable of making tough decisions competently, worse yet they NEVER SEEM TO HAVE A COHERENT STRATEGY LET ALONE STICK TO ANY VAGUE STRATEGY they did purport to have.


BINGO!!!!! Chadermando.

I will add one more thing to that. Whatever it is that they do, it is not "transparent" so that it is user friendly and easily accessible to the taxpayers of this City in such a way that we know where money comes from, where it goes, what different accounts (or pots of money) there are and some sort of assessment of how effectively each program and project is or has been.

I think there are no departmental, program, or project measuring sticks and, if there are, we sure do not know about it.

We are a community in which we are all shareholders by virtue of paying for common services. We are owed the duty, by those we elect, to take care of that "common" as well as those who get hired to take care of it, to let us know how finances are being handled to some reasonable depth - as opposed to smoke and mirrors - without having to data mine for ourselves through a field of bureaucracy.

This City has a long way to go. Typically, this City is far too defensive about their activities.

Yeah, owl, and you'd be on the "defensive" too if you were guilty of practically nothing but screw ups!
Why do you criticize?
Aren't you the one who always steps up to the plate with a willingness to pay more money in taxes.
You certainly are not speaking for the poor!
We are not all rich-well, not yet, anyhow!
There are many in the city who can barely meet their commitments. Please do not encourage the city to demand more.
Unfortunately they cannot sell their blood in Canada for additional funds!

Pal, I have taken the priviledge and copied your 04:50 PM post and sent it to the persons email shown on this site.

So lets stop whining and get at it. This can be the straw that broke the camels back.

Cheers

Good going, Kimbo!
Pal was right on-great posting!

"Aren't you the one who always steps up to the plate with a willingness to pay more money in taxes."

Yes I am, and have done so on the opinion piece about this. I am, however, not prepared to spend money if there is no value there.

This City is showing me that it is not capable of handling my money properly anymore. If they can show me that that is wrong thinking on my part, I am willing to pay.

One cannot get anything for nothing. Some people think that. That is where I differ.
---------------------
"You certainly are not speaking for the poor!"

You wouldn't know that based solely on the matter of property taxation.

I am sorry, but the fact that someone cannot afford more taxes can be handled in a different fashion. One does not have to drag the entire level of the City down to what a minority can afford if there is another group on the other end of the spectrum that can not only afford to pick up the difference but are willing to.

Getting more and more facilities to work on a fee for use basis is not helping the poor, for instance. Some can afford to go swimming, others cannot. If we have a municipal pool, it should be used. It is not just for those who can pay for its use.

So, to help the poor, they should have free access to city facilities. And I would be willing to pay more to put that in place, for instance.

How many others can afford to do the same thing? How many are ready to say that they will do the same thing?

Besides, anyone who can afford a piece of real estate on which they pay taxes is not one of the poorest of the poor.

BTW .. rather than sending stuff in, who will be at one or more of the public sessions? I am upset enough about this that I will likely go.

BTW .... the way the City is handling this is not exactly giving them the best PR.

If one goes out to announce something, one should do it in one shot.

They have chosen to make an announcement when they knew they did not have the full written information they will be releasing on this ready until Monday. In the meantime, a bunch of people see a red cape being waved in front of them without having the more complete story and rationale which may better present their point of view on this matter.

What a fiasco. And we are expected to pay for such management?

duffer ... "Let's get the roads fixed before we start to think of ourselves as a "large city". We aren't a "large city" and anyone that thinks we need all these things should take a reality break."

You know, you hit the nail on the head. Way too many people think we are a large city.

We need to go back to the old country roads, no curbs, 20 feet wide, swales for storm water retention, etc.

http://www.antiquefurniturerestorations.com/N.E.%20%20country%20road.JPG

And to go along with that, since the roads would then cost far less, we could build a barn theatre.
http://www.amishacres.com/aa_musical_theatre/miscellanous/round_barn_theatre_history.htm

And guess what. We would then have a community which would be picturesque enough and quaint enough that we would be able to attract more tourists.

They like country roads, small theatres, art galleries in barns, local artisans in unique do it yourself houses. Expensive four lane boulevards with pavers and trees in pots are everywhere. They may as well stay at home. And it is no fun to drive to work that way.

There are other ways to cut back than to go without a facility. It is all a matter of what one wantsw to cut back on. We have too many people with too many pre-conceived ideas. We need more commnity leaders with imagination.

Owl.

The only thing I am convinced of is that we spend far too much money on things that only a select few will participate in or enjoy. Fix the infrastucture before anything else gets done, and then if there is money left over put it to something that people enjoy. Just because you want a performing arts theatre doesn't mean everyone in P.G. does. what percentage of the people would go to a performing arts centre? I would go there as much as I go to the art gallery which is...never, but my taxes pay for it, the same as my taxes pay for every other white elephant this city has ever built. Examples are the Multiplex, the Northern Sports Centre, the Civic Centre. How much are we on the hook every year for these needless buildings.

I have had various groups call me at work wanting donations for different causes and they all have the "best cause" to beg for our money. It gets very frustrating when the people holding the purse strings don't know how to control them.

The major costs for City buildings I beleive are heating, and labour.

The CN Centre after all is said and done costs tax payers approx $350,000.00 per year. I dont know what the cost would be for 2006, but that number is very close for the last couple of years.
Average attendence for Couger games 2004/05 was 3100. Average attendence to date 2006/2007 2900 hundred per game. Seating capacity 6000. This situation has to be dealt with. (Dont blame the fans) the true fans are still going, the others never were fans. Maybe the Cougers should leave, and we can move the Spruce Kings, and other functions to the CN Centre, and close down the Colisium. This would certainly reduce costs. In the end the decision may be made for us.

The Civic Centre when it was first proposed was going to host Conventions from all over the world. As it turns out it gets less and less business every year. From January this year to October as near as I can tell from the City website there are only 9 or 10 bookings for this building. I dont have the costs on this building but all the costs should be available in the Citys year end report. I suspect that a number of people who presently use the Civic Centre will begin to use the Sport Centre once it is built, and the Civic Centre will get even less use.

I dont have any Problem with the Library, however it would be nice if they would purge their membership list and give the straight goods as to how many members they actually have.

The Art Centre was opposed by a large number of people in this City when it was proposed, however it got built anyway, problem is very few people use it. In any event one can live with the costs on this one also. Again it would be nice to get the actual numbers **excluding** school children, that actually use this facility.

Do we need two swimming pools in Prince George, again if the numbers are there then I guess we can continue to live with the cost, however if they are not, then what do we do??

All these buildings require staffing and heat, and heat is extremely expensive in the winter time. Staff is expensive all the time.

The Sports Plex on the Hill will not (IMO) generate enough revenue to pay for its costs, and the City will again be on the hook for additional costs. It is a joint ownership between the City and UNBC but I doubt if UNBC will be able to pick up any extra costs. In fact they dont have their share $5 Million for the original cost yet.

Its time to **fall back and recover** when it comes to anymore capital projects in this City. Lets take a tax and spend holiday and let the dust settle, and then decide where we are going from here.

"I have had various groups call me at work wanting donations for different causes and they all have the "best cause" to beg for our money. It gets very frustrating when the people holding the purse strings don't know how to control them"

I could easily turn that around and say that they know how to control them. Just that others do not realize that they are asking to fund what someone else considers as basic services as they do in other countries .... such as beds to house patients rather than floors and storage rooms and kitchens as we heard on the news tonight.

Everyone has different priorities. Wide streets such as 5th, 15th, Ospika, Foothills, Ferry, Tyner (near HWY 16) are nice, but overkill. We can save on asphalt and we can save on repairs.

"Its time to **fall back and recover** when it comes to anymore capital projects in this City. Lets take a tax and spend holiday and let the dust settle, and then decide where we are going from here."

I can agree with that quite easily. It is a reasonable post and a reasonable request.

I want to see why the City would think otherwise.