Betcha they will be lucky if they get twelve. We will see. Might depend what is on TV on Monday night.

With all those people stuffed into the council chambers, isn't it going to affect the air quality in there ?

3.That the new zoning bylaw reflect a "cap on admissions " for industrial development in the Prince George (our) airshed.

This one will be shot down in flames by the present mayor and most of the councilors.

Some thoughts .....

1. It is generally better to go directly to the authority that can effect change.

2. The MoE is the authority with respect to air quality in the Province.

3. Every single one of PACH’s requests is going to the City, which has limited authority to deal with air emissions. The City is not set up to monitor or provide expert input into what are reasonable requirements to ask industry to comply with. It would mean growing the bureaucracy at City Hall. Look at the capacity of the MoE to do that sort of work, which is proving inadequate to determine where emissions are coming from that affect the air quality. They have been working for 10+ years on that and still can't make up their minds. Why does anyone think the City can do better? Why does anyone think that the City can merely make regulations which have no solid foundation and can be appealed by industries to the province and even the courts?

4. PACHA is asking the City
a. to put pressure on the province to designate the City a “sensitive airshed”. Why not go to the province directly? Speak to Minister Penner. They may find that it already is in the working stage.

b. To request MoE to report PM 2.5 as regularly as PM10. Again, go directly to the MoE. Again, they may find that the switch over is planned to happen across the province. The key here is that the reporting is on shorter averages. In fact, that is already done in part by the new AQHI which reports an index based on 3 hour averages.

c. That the new zoning bylaw reflect a "cap on admissions” for industrial development in the Prince George airshed. To the best of my knowledge, that is already informally in place through the MoE when they review new permit requests. In fact, those who have explored this may find find that it varies across the airshed. In some critical locations, I understand that in order to put a new tonne into the air, two old tonnes have to be removed from another industrial point source in the same area.

But, like many other situations, we really do not know since we merely live in this community and we are not given even partial disclosure of many things which affect us. To do otherwise would make governance way to complicated and too expensive.

This is not really our town. This town belongs to others. We are merely allowed to occupy it in order to provide the labour resources required to generate wealth, and be good consumers and tax payers.

Then we have WCEL. PACHA asks that the City …… review the Clean Air Bylaws Guide from WestCoast Environmental Law (WCEL) so that they realize the scope local government has.

I suspect that the City knows precisely the scope local government has. The key tool the City has is land use, not emission control. The City can rezone industrial land, or not allow rezoning to industrial land, in areas which are in the “sensitive airshed”. That is the strongest “card” the City can play.

In fact, the Bylaws guide from WCEL is fully aware of that. Here are some quotations from the guide:

“ …. there are also two circumstances in which a conflict may arise with provincial regulation under the Environmental Management Act. First, the Act allows the Minister of Environment to declare that a conflict exists between a bylaw and the requirements of the Environmental Management Act and its operations. If the Minister makes such a declaration, then a bylaw that imposed additional or more stringent requirements will become invalid.
Second, the provincial cabinet can “suspend” zoning bylaws to allow a land owner to operate under a permit or order made under the Environmental Management Act.73

That being said, there may be very good reasons that a local government will not want to duplicate the efforts of the provincial government. There are gaps in provincial regulation – sources of pollution which are not regulated at all, the failure to determine the appropriate location of a polluting industry, etc. Local governments may be well advised to consider how to fill these gaps, as well as ways in which it can complement, rather than duplicate, provincial regulation.”

I think it is prudent for any organization to take those last wise words from WestCoast Environmental Law to heart. PACHA is now a member of Air Shed Management group. Now that they are a member, and tow additional members from the public have been included, all parties having an interest and having authority to act with respect to managing the air quality in and around Prince George are at the same table. Time to use that group. Shake them up a bit. Get them to stop sitting on their hands and do what they are supposed to do – solve the air quality problem in this city.

The group is still not known to the people in this city. No one knows when they meet, who the members are, how one can get in touch with them, whether one can observe the meetings, how one can make submissions to the group, who the group reports to that has the authority to act, etc. etc.

Another dysfunctional group dealing with matters our citizens ought to know about. Why does PACHA have to go to City Council? Why would they even have to go to the ministry? If this were an effective committee, we would not be having these problems.

Maybe Opinion 250 should attend a meeting or two of the PG Airshed Management Committee, the same as they do for City Council and the SD.

;-)

Why would a group of people collect signatures and pressure the Government to build a University. Why wouldnt they leave this to the Education Minister.

Why would a group of people form a group, hold meetings etc; for more Doctors in the North. Why would they not leave this to the Health Minister.

Why would the Airport Authority solicit money from the Federal and Provincial Goverments for the Runway expansion. Why wouldnt they leave the expansion to the Transportation Ministers;.

Sounds like much to do about nothing. Time to move the city, too many problems here for some people.

If they just outlaw bad air, then the cops can seize it and hold it in secure storage until the rightful owner comes forward to claim it.

God, do I have to think of everything ?

"Why would a group of people collect signatures and pressure the Government to build a university. Why wouldnt they leave this to the Education Minister."

In that case the government IS the education ministry and minister .. or the edcuation ministry and minister IS the government.

----------------

The health one is interesting. The expansion of the medical program at UBC was already at the discussion table, as was the notion of educating in regions outside of Vancouver. That not only dealt with the North, but also the South as well as the Island.

The northern remote movement had started in Ontario one year before it was started here. In Ontario they created an entire new medical school, which was the slower way to do it. They lost two years over the BC move as a result.

The gathering of folks here to support the move to open a medical school was the icing on the cake which was already close to baked.

-----------------

Airport ... again .... the transportation ministries are the government .... I really do not know what you think they are.

TRM ..... that is called sequestering .. and there are scientists actually working on sequestering air which is "bad" with respect to global warming - CO2.

So, go join those scientists .. you are likely on the right track. There may even be a local firm which will be getting into commercializing that science within the year.

:-)

I will have you know I only breath out high quality carbon dioxide. Sure hope they don't tax me on that. Kinda like a "carbon credit".

From reading a lot of these posts, I'd say the bigger problem is too much THC in the air. I think it's coming from Owl's house.

TRM ... you can read?

;-)

"The air quality watch dog group PACHA, is hoping there will be standing room only in Prince George City Council Chambers tomorrow night."

I wonder how many of them pass wind during the presentation, thereby giving a demonstration of the air quality in downtown Prince George.

Dont' forget that the City thinks that they can control polution. Remember we now have a bylaw that restricts wood burning within the bowl. MoE apparently has control over industrial polution but the City controls the rest.

I think that we should be able to request the City to regulate against any thing that is detremantal to our health or what ever. This is the reason for Municipal government . They are on the ground to help us all of us. And having said that it is also a given that our politicians will try to pass the buck.

We have three MLA's and two MP's in our area it really is mind boggling that we should have to form groups that will provide us with a healthy environment to live in. Our politicians don't really care what the protocal is they will just do the things to get elected.

Cheers

What was I thinking ?

Of course ! Regulate fine particulate matter and stinky air. Maybe we can get the chain gangs up on the hill to trap it in butterfly nets and send it to a town of people that we DON'T like. After all, they are right in the line of fire anyway, closest to the problem. Acknowledging that there is an air quality issue will also open the floodgates for ex-inmates to sue the government for damages as a result of putting their health and well-being in jeopardy. They could use this money to purchase giant air fresheners and filters for everyone, or better yet they could buy up all the heavy industry in the area and close it all down.

Just like everywhere else in the world, it was decided long ago, that jobs and money were more important than a little pollution, and now we are not happy with the deal anymore.

My first day ever in Prince George, I said to someone, "What's that awful smell ?"

They smiled and said, "That's the smell of money !" So, breathe deep.

What they did not tell you is tht it was the smell of money going into the pockets of health care professionals, medi-gas, puffers, university profs studying the hell out of the thing scratching their heads wondering who the possible culprits could be, hotels making money to rent rooms to "action" groups, and on and on .....

BTW, I reconginzed the smell right away. I came here from Ottawa and grew up with the smell of money from the EB Eddy Company where my father was an accountant and I earned money during the summers to go to University.

That company has since moved and the smell of money in Ottawa has changed to the sound of money from Parliament Hill.

;-)