Can I get a pot full of money please.

I said from the get go on this forum that when they were hiring a CEO that who ever takes on the beetle funds file has to be a vocal advocate pushing all three forms of government towards end goal solutions.

I think Campbell himself is saying that would be a good thing. Unfortunately it looks more and more like the funds are held hostage to local politicians, political appointments, and a bunch of dead end agenda's with no focus.

The results will be local and Campbell is saying here is some rope of authority. Do with it as you see fit as a community, and then he is washing his hands of any responsibility. If we can not advocate on behalf of our own communities, than we should not be expecting the Vancouver Victoria politicians to be doing that for us.

Unfortunately for Mr Campbell when you are the one that holds the purse strings, then you have a responsibility to be involved in setting the budget agenda and moving that forward.

I’m with the Premier on this one. I have just read an article in Macleans Mag that talks about climate change. And its amazing to look at the up side on the opportunities we will have to diversify our economy here in the North.

I have come up with a business plan that I will put to Premier Campbell for funding and I tink he will like it. With temperatures rising we will be able to grow grapes in the Prince George area. Now what we need to do is clear cut the dead pine and convert the land to agricultural use and plant grape . We wouldn’t be able to grow a Merlot right away but white wine grapes would be a good choice. With the decline of ice wines in the southern regions this is another possibility.

And we have herd a lot about Prince George being the Northern Capital. This could actually change and become a reality as Victoria will be under water because of the rising tides. The Parliament buildings could now be located in our area. That would also create a market for our wines locally as we know most politicians appear to be stoned most of the time they would probably enjoy our wine products.

And don’t tell me I’m out to lunch on this one. Notice that the City of Vancouver has followed my earlier suggestion on taxing larger homes. They are increasing the residential density to encourage more commerce for our affluent society.

So stop whining and get on with a business plan. There is plenty of land available. Maybe we could step back a bit and make some of the land available as was done withe the creation of homesteads for grape growing as was done with growing wheat at the turn of our last century.

Cheers

Didnt anyone tell Campbell that in order to make pellets you have to make 2x4's or lumber so that you can get the sawdust to make pellets. No sawdust, no pellets.

I am still waiting for someone to come up with an idea for this area that will generate jobs and revenue. There seems to be very little that we can do, and if we cannot come up with something, then we have to face the reality that this place is going to take a major nosedive in the next 10/15 years.

What do we have to date;

(1) Static population with no significant growth forcast for the next 10/15 years.

(2) UNBC in a major downsizing, with no growth expected in the future, and with sustainability their major focus.

(3) Approx decline in enrolments in school district 57 of 500 students per year for the past 5 years, and more of the same for the next 5 years. This means that there will be a significant decline in graduations in the next 8/10 years and beyond. This of course means less people available for College and University.

(4) Continued Major construction and jobs in Pr Rupert, Kitimat, Ft St John, Dawson Creek, Grande Prairie, Ft McMurray, Greater Vancouver. This will mean that people will continue to leave Prince George for these other areas to get good jobs.

(5) If lumber prices continue to be depressed, then there is the possibility of more mill closures, plus major layoffs in logging etc; This is already happening.

(6) Kemess mines may or may not be allowed to go forward, however if it is, this will maintain the present 350 jobs in that area, however this will just maintain the status quo, but will not be an increase in jobs.

(7) Inland Container terminal in Prince George, if it ever happens, will only offset some of the jobs that now handle these products to Vancouver, and there will be no significant addition of jobs.

(8) Outbound Container trains from Prince Rupert will generate some railway jobs in Prince George, which would get us to the level we were at when Tumbler Ridge coal trains were operating at capacity a number of years ago.

(9) Airport Runway Expansion. This project is based over 20 years and is speculative in nature. May or may not be additional jobs 10 years down the road. Some construction jobs in the short term.

(10) Nechako Basin Oil. No major companies interested in looking for oil in this area at this time.

(11) Mining, some new mines in the Region may come on stream, however some mines will also close, such as the Huckelberry mine in Houston.

(12) Provincial, and Municipal Government projects, such as twinning the Simon Fraser Bridge, Building the Cameron St., Bridge, A New Police Station, Performing Arts Centre, and Co-Generation plant, will create jobs in the short term, but in the end this is all Tax Payer money, and will eventually be a drag on taxpayers, and with a declining population base, and less workers, I dont know how the City plans to pay for all of this. If they continue to increase taxes and provide less that stellar services, people will continue to leave.

(13) One of the major employers in this area is now Government. Federal, Provincial, Municipal, and Regional. As the population decreases, these Governments will have to begin to look at downsizing, and of course we will end up with less Government jobs.

These are some of the down sides to what is happening in the Prince George area.

Anyone want to take a run at giving us a list of the upside???

Premier Campbell seems to be saying the pine beetle crunch will be hitting Prince George in 15 years. A lot of very smart people are saying this crunch will be hitting us much sooner than that.

For example here is part of a recent article from the Vancouver Sun. To read the whole article type "vancouver sun" "pine beetle" into google. (I tried to copy and paste the article but it doesn't seem to work.)

"British Columbia's mountain pine beetle-killed forests are deteriorating faster than expected, prompting the forest industry to re-think the value of the timber it had hoped to feed into its high-tech sawmills.

"The wood quality is coming down a lot quicker than people thought it would," said Paul Quinn, industry analyst with Salman Partners who has followed the impact of the infestation on Interior forest companies. "There is definitely going to be a day of reckoning as some people are referring to it. And that is worrisome."

Observations by people like Quinn are supported by two recent studies that detail for the first time the "shelf life" of timber killed by the beetle in this epidemic.

The studies, by University of Northern B.C. forest pathologist Kathy Lewis and forest consultant Jim Thrower, confirm what sawmillers have been witnessing in their own plants as they process pine logs: One to two years after the trees die, a high percentage of the wood has dried out and cracked, reducing the proportion of wood that can be made into lumber, plywood and even pulp."







v

Charles, you wrote: Premier Campbell seems to be saying the pine beetle crunch will be hitting Prince George in 15 years"

The article above stated: He singled out the Cariboo Beetle Action Committee as being a truly forward-looking group - a group looking down the road fifteen years to see what the economic landscape will look like without pine trees"

What he is actually saying is that in 15 years time, we need to have a new mix of industries IN PLACE.

Thus, ideally, a portion of one will be winding down to a lower level of "sustainabïlity" over a period of time while others come up to fill gaps.

In addition to that, we may even want to plant some fast growing trees such as Aspen for one rotation, if not more, to allow existing forestry based capacity to be utilized more efficiently.

The information in the Vancouver article was actually published locally some time ago. It took a while to get to Vancouver.

You're right owl. I stand corrected about my post.

Why don't we start an industry building off grid homes that are carbon neutral? Put a big fire place in the center of the home and run a air bearing steam turbine off the fireplace that a)heats the home, b)provides continuous hot water, c)provides immediate power, d)provides recharging power to back up batteries, augmented by wind and solar power in the summer.

Problem is how would they then find a way to then tax us? Back to square one I guess....

Lots of talk but only one plan and it sounds as hair brained as the one I have have come up with.

Cheers

....But Chader is probably serious!

Cheers

Ok so someone wants an upside? I amnot even going to try to address the list of doom thatwas posted. If you really believe all that then all icansay is: what theheck are you still here for? Sell your house while the price is good and move on down the road.
I,however, will stay. Having lived many places and visited many more i can say without a lie that prince george is one of the best places in the world. There is my bias and perhaps the reason why i choose not to believe all the doom and gloom that is fashionable these days. Of cours eit could also be experience. I have been here long enough to see a couple of booms and busts and i have a good enough memory to remember the talk that was going around then. The truth is that prince george is better off in many , many ways than it has ever been. The falldown effect we are going to experience is just the latest one. We have already seen far greater job losses in forestry due the modernization and mechanization. A couple of decades ago people in the industry (economists, actually) were predicting dire days for PG due to the dwindling supply of: mechantable timber, nearby timber, foreign markets. So what else is new?
I do think it is a great idea to diversify, regardless of the pine problem. I also believe that A:enrolment in UNBC will rise in the future, recent predictions notwithstanding , just so long as it tries to talor its programs to the needs of current students (instead of concentrating on fringe areas). Mining will increase as long as the govt promotes it (minerals are getting more scarce and valuable, not less). Loss of govt jobs in PG will have little to do with population. We have lost a lot of jobs up here due to centralization of services. We need to elect people who believe in spreading out the govt. offices.
It is possible to look at all the potential of this region is a negative manner. This is not productive in any sense. Nor should pessimism be mistaken for wisdom. If you really dont think anything good is on the horizon for this area then maybe you should just step aside and let others who do believe try to make some of it happen. One thing is certain, if all we do is moan and complain then we are really going to have a lot to complain about.

Also, what the heck is up with my space bar???

Great post Caranmacil. I agree, even though I come with a dose of pessimism of my own from time to time.

Kimbo, I have dozens of plans. Some hair brained, some not so much. I think at least a good half dozen are viable if only I had either a)the financial resources, b)the time to work on them all, c)cooperation from others.

My biggest stumbling block is I got burned out of a million dollar business once before where my partners made it big time while conniving against me out of greed. I can not allow that to happen again, so I will not present any of my business plans in the future until I know that I have some level of control that allows me to see it through to fruition. Bargaining from a minority position, or a position of no control is only asking to be burned.

Fact of the matter is I don't trust the local economic development agencies with my ideas. Simply because they are an old boys club of political appointments that would likely say I don't have the resources to pull it off, but they know someone who does. Lots of great opportunities have passed by as a result.

As for the off grid carbon neutral home, I plan to build my own one day as a proto type, possibly could develop into a business, but if someone else did it first, then that would be great and save me a lot of trouble. The biggest stumbling block I guess would be to find a micro steam turbine or an 12volt alternator series that could be used in the power generation.

I like your idea of growing grapes and I'm already on that one. Its all part of my off grid home idea, and I've already got the location picked out for it.

Cheers

I once started a whole new industry in Prince George. New to Northern BC in fact. It had the potential to employ thousands of people in manufacturing diversification. It now employs only 6 greedy people that got rich and has produced no spin off benefits and infact hasn't developed one inch of growth in 6 years since I left. I will never allow myself to be a minority partner in my business plans again.

One shouldnt confuse realism with pessimism, or negativism. There is a significant difference. People who constantly pretend to be optomistic regardless of the facts to the contrary, are a dime a dozen, however they rarely if ever come up with anything more than drivel.

I have seen my house price rise and fall over the years and to me it is just so much **BS** I didnt buy the house on speculation, nor would I sell it to make a dollar, and move somewhere else. I have absolutely no concern as to what the **Jones's** are doing or may do.

I have seen this town grow from a mill town with 18 Sawmills along 1st avenue and the surrounding area, the arrival of the BC Rail in Prince George, the Construction of the Pulp Mills. I remember in the 60's when the Prince George Airport was much busier than it is to-day, and we had a customs office, and it was not considered to be a **Big Deal**

I have seen the Railways, Lumber Mills, Pulp Mills,Banks, BC Hydro, BC Tel, BC Gas, and many other business downsize in the last 20 years wherein at least 15000 good paying jobs have disapeared. These jobs have been replaced somewhat by service industry jobs that pay something in the area of $8.00 per hour, and the people working the jobs have no buying power.

I have seen the downtown go from a bustling business centre, to a total disgrace, wherein it is lined with empty boarded up buildings, and laced with for *Rent* for *Sale* and for *Lease* signs.

I have seen Pine St., and area go from one of the best places to live in the City to a bloody disgrace. The same thing applies to other areas of the City. There have been no high rise apartments or office buildings built in this town since the 1980's. Thats almost 30 years of negative growth.

I have seen the City go from a responsible cost effective institution, to a taxpayers nightmare, with staff falling over themselves, and everyone getting paid **Great Salaries** I heard the other day that they have 4 Directors, and 18 Managers, apparently the
total staff for the City is approx 750 people.

Our roads are terrible, and we dont have the intelligence, or the intestinal fortitude to repair a wooden bridge. There is a town in the Kootenays that built a wooden bridge by hand with craftsmen they brought in from all over BC and they lifted this bridge with cranes and dropped it over the river. We cant even repair a bridge, mainly because we want to build a new one and give the money to the Contractors. (As usual)

I dont have any trouble living in Prince George, and I no longer need a job for an income, and I stay because I like the summers, and have friends here. But I will tell you this. Most people that I worked with over the years couldnt get out of town fast enough after they retired, and they are still leaving. To say that Prince George is the best place is the world is an overworked phrase, and is usually uttered by someone who has never lived anywhere else.

Prince George in probably not more than one or two steps
above mediocrity. When you suggest to people in Vancouver that they should move here they start to laugh.

We need to get some responsible people to start to get something done in the City or we will in fact *implode** This will not be done by those people who are now on or have been on some sort of Government payroll, because these are **easy money** people and they are only good for spending Government money. They would be at a total loss if they had to do someting on their own. They are much like **Lamprays
that attach,
themselves to the belly of a shark and suck out the blood. The shark does all the work, and the Lamprays get fat.

This town has to many Lamprays and not enought Sharks.

Great post, Pal! Your statement...

"I heard the other day that they have 4 Directors, and 18 Managers, apparently the
total staff for the City is approx 750 people."

...leaves me stunned! 750+ city employees? That is more than what it takes to run a large pulp mill!

My highest estimate would have been less than 250 and not one more! No wonder there isn't much money left (after paying all the wages, salaries and benefits) in the budget to repair potholes, chewed-up curbs and sidewalks, etc. Amazing!

And if indeed there is such a super bloated staff, why is every effort that is a bit out of the *ordinary* contracted out at a great additional expense for studies?

Not too long ago the city paid a bundle to have an inventory made of all the sidewalks, what shape they are in and how many more kilometers we need.

We did not do very well - predictably - and then the study report was filed away to gather dust, as usual. The sidewalk repair and new construction budget is still woefully inadequate and a bad joke!

I wondered at that time why an outside firm was hired rather than have a couple of city employees drive around with a pad of paper on a clipboard and write down their observations.

With the money saved the curbs in our area could have been repaired and modified to modern standards, where one doesn't have to lift a baby buggy up and down all the time and perhaps enable handicapped citizens to use the sidewalks.

We have only one sidewalk, it is narrow and a complete mess, at one point it has a large wooden power pole right in the middle of it (!!!) forcing people to navigate around it by stepping into the street - it's been like that for 35 years (!) or more!

Why has not one of the 750 employees ever noticed this and initiated remedial action?

Yikes!!!

The last figures available on the City website are for 2003. Labour and benifits cost stood at $34,594,000. The proposed total budget for this year is $105,000,000.00 It is mind boggling what 750 people would be doing to run our City. Will we ever change things?

Cheers