"PG Habitat Society President, Kevin Gagel .... says the group talked to city hall about their plans before purchasing the property and when he asked for the necessary permits eight-months ago, he was expecting development costs in the range of $seven-hundred to $eight-hundred dollars."

It does not say he was "told". It says he was "expecting".

This is the part of the situation I just do not like. I am not sure what happened at City Hall at that time. However, I expect that the service at City Hall should be such that an individual could go there and find out BEFORE puchasing a property, what charges to expect in the process of developing the property for a specific use. I do not know why that was not done; whether it was Gagle who did not ask the right questions (help accross the counter at City Hall must be better than that) or whether City Hall did not provide the complete answer.

I am with Council in their decision that substandard development should not be allowed. However, I am concerned about the service Gagel may have received. We must do better to help those who do not do this every day.

If I had a penny for everytime "someone" at City Hall supposedly said something I'd be a very, very rich man and Mr. Someone would be very unemployed.

When pressed to define who this "someone" is it never ceases to amaze me how no specific name can ever be remembered.

Unfortunately most people assume something will be the case based on false or incomplete infomation and never bother to confirm with anyone in the know.
You can't put full blame of City Hall folks here...do your due diligence, don't sign anything or go ahead until you have all the facts CONFIRMED.
You wouldn't sign a contract with blank spaces to be filled in later would you?

"The outcome: the remaining development costs and fees total $20,400.00."

I suggest that the Mayor and other city officials re-dedicate their whole planned foreign travel budget for 2007 and by doing so take care of this financial portion of this extremely worthwhile Habitat for Humanity Prince George Society project, thereby reaffirming enthusiastically that charity begins at home, in other words in our community of Prince George!

They can decide to stay home, put on some work clothes and safety boots and participate in the physical construction of the house, shoulder to shoulder together with all the other volunteers.

That will meet with the approval and admiration of a very large percentage of taxpayers, I am sure.

In fact, one Habitat for Humanity project annually here in Prince George should enjoy the exemptions outlined above which are necessary to make it a go.

Kevin Gagel, says he’s frustrated...

Kevin doesn't know the half of it. The city has abandoned the frontier mentality. If you want to expand or build in PG, it is going to cost you a pile of money. I had to hire engineers to tell the city the city topo map on the city website was correct. Nothing I could do about it. Because you never know, right? The map could be wrong, along with every other map in the world that ever put a topo line in PG. Turns out the topo map was right of course, HeeHee! Now pay the bill!

Meanwhile we have Skakun and the rest of the councillors playing politics, or actually looking for ways to increase the taxes and regulatory burden. The next generation is going to get their fill of the Baby Boomers last kick at the cat! We leave the next generation to pay our debts and no way to pay it. Nice!

Habitat is a good cause. However, no one should be forced to donate to a good cause by pleading ignorance or hardship.

I am sure that they should be able to get someone to donate their time who knows construction and the permitting process. That woule be a safegurad on their side.

In addtion, they should be able to get someone who could donate the time when selecting a property. I do not know whether it was a gift or whether it was purchased through a real etate agent. I assume a substandard lot would have had a price on it to reflect that fact. If it did, then Habitat should have understood that and the realtor should/could have pointed that out. If it was a market price similar to properly serviced lots, then they were taken.

To me this is a very tough one and I do not have enough information to make a judgement call.

One thing I know is that City Hall could be more service oriented with respect to helping people. That is a common complaint.

The other is that it appears Habitat may be partly to blame for the situation they find themselves in and they should not have to be bailed out by the taxpayers. If they need assistance, they should get in the same lineup as everyone else. Otherwise a lot of other organizations will have a right to access funds after the fact simply by pleading ignorance.

If they would have gone with the offer to purchase info to the Hall, found out that there would be DCC far in excess of what they could afford (since they could have bought a properly services lot somewhere else for less thant the total cost of this one) they could have applied for financial relief from the City.

Dear OWL,

Thank you for your comments above. Clearly there is a need to clarify a couple of things.

You indicated that I (yes this is Kevin Gagel) was "expecting" lower costs. To fill in the picture for you a little the expectation was based on two successfull builds all ready in Prince George. The last build cost us "development" costs just over $700. We commonly refer to them as building permits. I do not think it is unreasonable to EXPECT that the cost for the new project will be much higher, even 100% higher was anticipated because this was a lot that was FULLY serviced AND already zoned as a duplex lot. Double the space double the fee was what we EXPECTED at the most.

Before we made the decision to purchase the lot we went to City Hall and asked the all important question of "is there anything we need to know about this lot", our people (two of them) advised the City staff'r that we're thinking of buying the lot and building a duplex and that the price seemed to good. The City TOLD us the only thing of concern was the flood plain and that we'd have to raise the ground were the home was to go.

Habitat for Humanity Prince George Society DID due diligence. We purchased the lot through a Realter only after checking with the City and letting them know what our intentions were.

I have not been given a copy of the second report yet, but I do have questions about it. Why did the first report say we had to have sidewalks, street lights, pave a street and add a storm culvert when the second one ADDS we have to move electrical underground, that the culvert can not be installed, that the street lights are already there and that there is NO sidewalk so Habitat doesn't have to pay for one! Doesn't the City know what is where and what is needed? Why didn't the items and changes in the second report find their way into the first report?

I'm confused! How can so many people make so many mistakes? I'm frustrated about the process because the "playing field" seems to be changing. We just asked to have the fee's for the building permits waved. Suddenly the City is saying we have to build infrastructure because we are building a "sub-division". We're just building a duplex with volunteer labour and donated material.

OWL, why don't you join us and help us to ensure we don't get trapped like this again. We are always looking for good, smart people to make us a better society.

Information about Habitat for Humanity Prince George Society can be obtained by calling 564-1188 or visiting the ReStore at 220 Queensway, or our website at http://www.habitatpg.org.

Who is "The City"? Did you get anything in writing? Did you confirm any of your assumptions? Asking general questions prior to buying a lot vs. what happens when you submit an actual plan is a totally different world.

Your cause is a great one with which I agree with 100% but that does not excuse assumptions and lack of due diligence (which is clearly what happened here).

That being said I hope they waive the fees and your project goes ahead. A valuable lesson for next time.

Kevin .... I will gladly help you. From what you say, there may even be an opportunity to do that at this stage with this project since the matter is being brought forward to budget as I understand it.

I was in the gallery for another matter on Monday so am familiar with it to that extent.

I will get in touch with you tomorrow.

In a previous post "realitycheck" seems to be writing with a little tongue in cheek and also has wonderful 20/20 hindsight in this regard.
I think when you've been through this a couple of times and ask all the pertinent questions and nothing goes astray, you have a feel for the people in city hall & expect that you would be told the truth in all dealings with them. Unfortunately, in my experience you only get to deal with the people at the counter and not with Dan Milburn or one of the other senior people in the Development Service office and therein lies the problem.
I think the city thinks they are looking pretty good in this matter now. They've thrown in a bunch of unnecessary items but have waived them so now it makes it look like they are helping out Habitat for Humanity!
I feel this should fit under what came from the province recently in penalizing Municipalities that hinder social housing.
Time will tell, if some of the councilors can see through the ruse?

Interesting .... and you feel that the people at the counter are actually in a position to be able to do what you suggest?

I do not know how often it has been suggested to the City that the best thing they could do to help those who do not deal with the city all the time is to create a one stop shopping service with the responsibility to guide people through city approval processes.

Here is info on the Public Service Centre of the city of Victoria.

http://www.victoria.ca/residents/index.shtml

Kevin Gagel "..... I'm confused! How can so many people make so many mistakes? I'm frustrated about the process because the "playing field" seems to be changing..."

The stuff Kevin is saying will probably give me nightmares tonight, ones that have gradually gone away. The crazy stuff that comes in letters from the city... I feel sorry for you Kevin.

I had a project where the city said there was no street lights or sidewalks, and put that crap in the report to council! And you know city council runs rather than offend the staff. City council is not in charge of this town anymore.

Same thing, the "city" just does not make building stuff in this town easy or reasonable. Good luck Owl. Is this the first time you have built anything?

YDPC .... if it were the first time I would not be offering my services.

Administration actually recommended that Council approve providing the additional dollars. Council had approved $10,000 plus back in September 2006. However, after that Habitat changed the goal posts by wanting to build a duplex with separate titles. That was not identified in September 2006. As soon as you subdivide or even set up a strata title you come under the subdivision bylaw which requires development cost charges to improve the surrounding area if the improvements are not there yet. Thus the present situation. With a normal duplex, with single title, DCC would not apply.

Part of it is to go to paving Porter and putting up a street light or two there. Porter is an unimproved dead end street (read unpaved). So, the unlucky individual who wants to subdivide a property gets stung with Development Cost Charges.

While Habitat has all the good intentions in the world, they are working in an area which requires some expertise which goes beyond the ability to hammer nails. I am a blunt individual and cut to the chase. Dan Milburn, at Council, did not say that, to his credit.

I spoke to Kevin tonight already and it looks like they could use some addtional help. I also know I have some if not all the expertise that Habitat can use and that is why I offered it.

I do not need to learn as I go along. I have been there and done that, many times over for decades.

As far as Council goes, I would be surprised if they did not approve the additional money.

I have nothing to add of help here....but wanted to comment that its nice that you all are sharing thoughts, ideas, and trying to educate and help each other.
Good team work, for a good cause.

Council could take the $60,000.00 they gave to the symphony orchestra and use it for this. What is more important, having a place to live, or listening to music? Little minds everywhere. By the way, the last $100,000.00 we gave was supposed to be the last money the orchestra got from the city. I wonder what happened to that thought.

Council could also take the $1 million for the idiot tube in the CN centre, give $200,000 to Habitat, and $800,000 to the Symphony.

Council could do a lot of things.

Thing is, once we all have cast a vote, or not, Council gets to make three more years of decisions, so we are all SOL since Council likely does not satisfy all of us all the time with their decisions.