A multi million dollar outfit begging for mercy. When they were in good times, I don't believe they helped out their suppliers. Now who is gong to help out the suppliers after taking a 15% roll back? Is the CEO taking a 15% cut? And still the B.C. economy booms?

"Our roots are in the community" Perhaps this is what they are talking about.

I heard Enron was a multi million dollar company as well. Just not very responsible.

In good times Canfor makes money and everyone gets a check. In bad times there are no jobs. Asking suppliers to take a cut is interesting, but unreasonable. That means company's working for Canfor don't make a profit, so why do it. In good times everyone makes a profit and have to live off it during poor market cycles.

I say just close the doors at Canfor and send everyone home until the overseas and USA market improves. The trees just keep growing regardless.

If Canfor needs work done, then put it out to tender. They should then live with the results. If everybody else lives in a free market economy,then why shouldn't Canfor?

Here are the net, before tax, operating incomes and the assets at the end of the years shown according to the Canfor Annual reports available on the internet.

2006 - $471.8million - $4,679million

2005 - $96.0million - $3,830million

2004 - $415million - $3,979million

2003 - $153.3million - $2,439million

2002 - $11.5million - $2,328million

2001- $26.4million - $2,378million

2000 - $125.6million - $2,440million

1999 - $102.6million - $2,347million

looks to me like they have been making quite a bit of money over the last three and even four years and building up their assets. A loss of $250million should not break the bank. Over the last 4 years, that would still make those years better than the previous 4 years.

67% of their sales go to the USA. The $US has plummeted since 2005. The counterveiling duties brought some income in 2006 but duties will continue and there will likely be no more refunds, and the US housing market has taken a nose dive.

Their main products are housing oriented. Their pulp operations are a smaller portion of their operations.

They have diversified neither their products nor their customer base. They put too many of their eggs in too few baskets and are selling them uncoloured, uncooked, etc which would bring them added value.

With assets that high and a business operation which is floundering enough to have to ask their suppliers for a 15% roll back in billables without any alternate form of compensation spells trouble which makes the company ripe for picking if anyone wants to get into that game.

I am sure Pattison does not like loosers. I suspect he is the driver of this approach.

Canfor is simply reacting to a big time slowdown in the United States housing market.
This slowdown is more serious than the garden variety cyclical slow downs which we have all experienced in the past.

The following quote is from an article I just finished reading from Bloomberg News.

"Prices are tumbling in the U.S. housing market as inventories grow. In the second quarter, the U.S. median home price probably dipped 2.4 percent from a year earlier, the fourth consecutive quarterly decline, according to the National Association of Realtors. Before the third quarter of 2006, prices hadn't dropped since 1993.

Measured annually, the national median price for a previously owned home probably will drop 1.3 percent this year, the first decline since the Great Depression in the 1930s, according to Lawrence Yun, an economist at the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors"

If anyone wishes to read the entire article, the following is the link to it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a1IaEO5f_3kQ&refer=home

No one in this world likes to lose money. It would not surprise me to see Canfor next seek wage and benefit concessions from its unionized employees, and municipal tax concessions from local governments.

So this is the result of all Pat Bell's efforts, eh? No surprise there. No doubt they'll ask the union for similar rollbacks. And when times are good again, will those small businesses and workers get their money back? I got a dollar in my pocket that says 'no!'

Mark your calendars folks. In three short years the name Canfor will be a painful memory in this town.

The useable sawlogs will be gone, the pulp income trust(s) will be fully devolved, and they (Canfor) will be gone, gone, gone.

Roots indeed.

Canfor set up and has the Controlling shares in the Pulp Income Trusts. You might notice that no mention is being made of the Pulp Prices which are quite high. Canfor is making big bucks on pulp.

This asking for concessions from their suppliers, and from their Employees is a **Red Herring** Once they are told that they cannot get the reductions they are looking for, they will shut down 2 or 3 more mills, and guess what. It will be the suppliers/employees/ fault because they didnt give in.

There is a movement afoot by Jim Pattison and his cronies to Privatize Canfor, and I suspect that all this is part of getting things in order.

Much like the BC Rail shutting down their Intermodal operation, and going into Major Downsizing before they were sold to CN.

CLOSE THEM DOWN!

I held Canfor shares for years but when Jimmy Pattison started scooping them up,I got out.
I'm glad I did.
He is a ruthless business man and that made me very,very nervous!
Actually,when he aquires a company,there is always trouble for the employees.He is a slash and burn business man and breaking unions is what he does best.
If he can't break them,he buys them out, but he usually wins in the end.
I firmly believe he is behind this latest Canfor fiasco.

Seems I should write as similar letter to my bank. What have I got to lose 'çept a stamp?

Harbinger if your bank loses you as a customer would they even notice? I guarantee if Canfor mills shut down suppliers will notice.

Why on earth would the suppliers want to give their profits to Canfor? It's not like they are a Mom and Pop outfit that needs our help in a time of crisis. They are owned by the shareholders, mostly by Pattison and the Bentleys, but never mind who holds the most shares, the suppliers would merely be increasing the chances that the shareholders would receive their accustomed dividend next quarter. It would be lunacy for the (mostly) small, privately held supplier organizations to 'give back' because whether the big dog decides to scale back or to stay open, they will always be looking for the best rates and the best prices for the materials they need to keep running.
No, I think it is time for the shareholders to 'give back'
metalman.

Wow, corporate begging (with an implied threat)! Any different from a guy on a street corner holding a tin cup in one hand and a brick in the other?

I can't imagine why a company that utilizes lumber hedging apparently hasn't hedged currencies. At least that's what I'm led to believe partly is the problem judging by the results. The weak Canadian $ was a boon for Canfor in the past decade, apparently it's strength has now become the bain. It was no secret the US. dollar was vulnerable to precipitous declines, and I wonder what the results will be for Canfor if the dollar slips another 10%? I'm no shareholder but if I was there'd be some hard questions from the peanut gallery.

They are, in a fashion, trying to hedge in currencies after the fact by scaling back some compensation and trying to get others to scale back as well.

If they had said they would be paying everyone in US$ starting 3 years ago, they would not have this problem.

Of course, their employees and suppliers would then be sending letters requesting a review of the agreements when they realized they made a bad deal.

;-)

Hey .... to take a phrase often associated with discussing First Nations agreements .... when so many people are calling for finality.

there is no such thing as finality when it comes to agreements .... we see it time and time again in our daily lives

;-)

Cool, does this mean I get a 15% discount off a $5 item from Save on Foods that I can buy from a rival grocery chain for $3. Sign me up.

Mr Burns (The Simpons)

Read all the comments, I would be more worried about the Third Ave Management Group dictating Canfor' future. Canfor is going through an upper management struggle for power and control, why do you think Canfor recently changed CEO's and Patch was removed so quickly. This goes back even further, back to Canfor's merger with Slocan, interesting how the stock took a dive for a couple of days, under $7.00. when certain investors came onboard.

I am a United Steelworkers member working at Canfor's Plateau's sawmill.
Other media sources are saying that Canfor 'has approached unions about cost cutting'. Anyone know any details?
With up to 50% pay cuts looming in the unionized auto sector, everyone is holding their collective breaths. Are we seeing the start of third world wage scales and conditions in Canada?

I am a United Steelworkers member working at Canfor's Plateau's sawmill.
Other media sources are saying that Canfor 'has approached unions about cost cutting'. Anyone know any details?
With up to 50% pay cuts looming in the unionized auto sector, everyone is holding their collective breaths. Are we seeing the start of third world wage scales and conditions in Canada?