there is no worker shortage in this country only a wage shortage.Pay the money and get the workers.Thats how it works.Most of the kids today are staying in school so they have a chance at making a living wage.It makes me sick to see these big businesses paying minimum wage while posting record profits.

Yes redneck you are right. The only shortages I have seen in PG are in the food preperation industry (waiters, waitresses, fast food staff etc) and they pay crapola.

"It makes me sick to see these big businesses paying minimum wage while posting record profits"

Which businesses would those be?

NMG the list is endless. Just start with McDonalds and go from there.

Wonder how the Mare will compete with Kamloops and Kelowna for more taxpayers. Its a great time to deversify and get out of the Bush Bunnie City. I can see Prince George back in the 80's when a good building lot sold for 18 grand and less.

I guess Colin will just appeal the stats and feed us more of his dreams. Anyone on the market to buye a nice home for around 275 in Pinecone sub.

Cheers

The food industry does pay crap wages.
For what is expected from employees,the wages are pitiful and for that reason staff turnovers are rampant.
It's pretty close to slave labour actually.
If you can even find people to work in the first place!
Couple that with ignorant owners who put most of the profits in their back pockets and you begin to understand why it is so tough.
Unfortunately the profit margin is not quite as lucrative as many think, but a little more respect by the owners for those who do try to do a good job for very little would go a long way to improving the industry in general.
A good example is the pizza business.
It's one of the easiest food businesses to make a good buck at.
If you make a GOOD product,it can be very profitable, but most simply cheap out and give little value for the buck.
Prince George is no different than any other place.
Lots of pizza joints, but most are crap.
What they don't seem to understand is that if you put out a quality product,you can really kick ass!
The hours are long but the rewards can be very good if you do it right and give your customers something good.
A little less profit and a better product will make you a lot of dough!
Ever notice how many pizza joints go up for sale and never seem to sell?
The odds of selling these places are slim to none unless they are very cheap and the reason is,they simply have no books to speak of.
They made money alright,but it went in the ass pocket and not through the cash register.
They get what they deserve and there is no excuse for the wages they pay or the way they treat staff.

Some Companies that pay minimum wage or a least $10.00 or less per hour and restrict you to 20 hours per week would be:

Practically every store in the Mall and in Westgate. Every Major Grocery Chain. Most if not all retail stores. Most of these stores make huge profits. Most security companies pay $10.00 per hour or less. The list goes on.

In the case of the Major Grocery Chains. They used to pay in the area of $18.00 to
$23.00 per hour years ago and they still made huge profits. Now they pay half and no benefits so they must be doing ok.

Just curious what people define as "huge profits", especially for mom and pop type operations, or franchise owner/operators. Would it be similar to what the average mill worker makes after OT is factored in?

When you look at the profits for the entire corporate entity, are you also considering the sheer number of stores that may be in operation for that said entity? Is it not fair that if your sales are in the hundreds of millions of dollars, that you should be entitled to make a good chunk of coin as a return? Keep in mind, that when times are good, big money is made. However, when times are bad, big money is also lost. Nobody seems to mention that though.

I think it would be reasonable to somehow link the minimum wage to inflation, with periodic reviews to factor in other significant factors.

Take the blinders off, guys. There are critical shortages in some of the skilled trades too you know, and most do not pay your so called 'crap wages' I am sick and tired of people who can't see the big picture, this problem did not just happen, it could be seen coming for the last 5 or 6 years. It just started to get bad 2 years ago, and is a serious problem getting worse now. I do not have any doubt about what you say about the fast food outlets, they have gotten away with that for a long time. It used to be that they were a good place to start out, learn how to work, I'm not so sure any more. One thing I have learned however, you do not necessarily get better employees for better wages. The duds are still duds, whether they make $10 per hour, or $35 per hour. Money does not motivate most people like it used to. Things are much too easy for that. After all, if you are so inclined, you can sit on your ass and collect welfare, and receive better health care than if you have some ambition, and work at a $10 per hour job. I too have a major problem with these greedy outfits like Savon, who deliberately restrict people to 20 hours or whatever so they save on paying out benefits, that is total bullshit, and the practice is akin to slavery. RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE, MAKE IT MANDATORY TO INCLUDE FULL BENEFITS WITH EVERY JOB, PART TIME OR FULL TIME, SURE WE WILL ALL PAY MORE FOR OUR GAS AND GROCERIES, BUT SO WHAT? PUT ALL THE FAST FOODERS AND GROCERY STORES AND GAS STATIONS ON THE SAME LEVEL FIELD AND NONE HAS ANY ADVANTAGE OVER THE OTHERS BY SCREWING THEIR YOUNG WORKERS. WHILE WE'RE AT IT, LET'S CHANGE THE EDUCATION SYSTEM A LITTLE, TO ENSURE THAT KIDS KNOW HOW TO WORK IF THEY WANT TO WORK, WHEN THEY LEAVE SCHOOL.
metalman.

"this problem did not just happen, it could be seen coming for the last 5 or 6 years."

The worker shortage was predicted some 15 to 20 years ago. It was easy to see for anyone watching demographics and anyone working in the education/training industry. We needed immigrants. We still do, but it is getting rather late.

We are harvesting resources here, but are starting to run short of the most critical resource.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1990/04/09/73363/index.htm

An article from 1990 ...... 17+ years ago and not the first one by that time .... there were others before ....

so .... it was predicted and no one has been able to solve it ....

we have the MPB problem ... and looks like no one is prepared to solve that either ...

I know, we will get those smart business people on it right away and the problem will be solved by spring .....

In the USA they are solving the problem by sending 150,000 younger (not all of them by any means) off to destroy another part of the world while there is a labour shortage at home .... and closing the border that is giving them all the low cost help .....

Bushanomics .....

;-)

Any job in the retail business is paying like crap.Pick one.Oh and don't forget the banks.

Just my opinion, but I think we're entering a period in which kids will have more opportunities than ever, if they choose to take advantage of them. Baby boomers will be leaving the workforce in droves over the next 5-10 years and there simply aren't enough people to take their place.

Employees will have far more leverage in the future than they ever had and they likely won't need unions to make it happen. If businesses want to stay competitive and attract the best people (and therefore make the most money), they will have to offer things like you mentioned metalman.

I don't think finding worthwhile employment will be a problem. I think the challenge will be instilling a mindset of personal accountibility and responsibility to make it happen.

I agree totally with you Metalman. Years ago if an employer appreciated a valuable employee they were rewarded with not only praise but raises and bonuses, thus keeping a devoted employee. What these dumb ass employers don't understand either is that by lack of appreciation and low wages they are spending more in training. That also brings in staff with the attitude that if they are only making 8 bucks an hour then they are only going to give that much back in work, or maybe they'll rob you blind. All around its a lose lose situation. Personally I would much rather pay my valued staff a decent wage an keep them happy.

Snappi's got it right. At one time a trained employee was considered an asset to a company. In addition he could train other employees and they could cover for each other on Holiday etc; You could work your way up the ladder and eventually get one of the top jobs. It all went to hell a number of years ago. What happened?

(1) Highly educated university people parachuting into the top jobs with no actual experience, just **book learning**

(2) The proverbial **Team Concept** which was no more that a thinly disquised ploy to get 3 people to do the job of 5.

(3) The world economy and the conglomerates such as Wal Mart and others of that ilk that move into areas and soak up all the business. (Their customers are the very people who complain about them)

(4) A serious degrading of the Education System where people are taught some of the basics but have little or no understanding or comprehension of the work ethic.

(5) The abdication of the major Unions who are now nothing more than big business themselves. Union leaders drawing big salaries and hop nobbing with management at the expense of the worker.

(6) The infiltration of the four levels of Government, Federal, Provincial, Regional, and Municipal into every aspect of a Citizens life. These various levels of Government cost Hundred of Billions of dollars to support and give little in return, in terms of value for dollars spent.

Lee Iacocca has written a book titled *Where have all the leaders gone** One example he gives it the infamous George Bush President of the United States who thinks he is a great leader. Iacocca says that great leaders are able to get people to follow them. He suggests that if Bush was to look over his shoulder he would see that no one is following him.

The same thing applies to most business's and Governments to-day. Short term policys for quick gain, and then on to the next **scam**. The new *God* is the bottom line. The battle cry is **Kiss the butt of the shareholder, curse the workers**

At the end of the day we will pay.

Our shortage of labour is a direct result of people in North America having 1.5 children per family. In the fifties and sixies it was approx 5 per family. We may be able to solve this problem with immigration, however there are other ways.

Wages, smages. All these opinions? It all depends on whose ox is being gored. $10 dollars an hour is fine. I worked when a buck an hour wages minimum wage in 1967. Everything is relative. Why, in the old days, Sonny i.e. in 1970 toast and coffee was only .35 cents. But in them old days I was only earning $2.50 an hour. A lot of people makeover twenty bucks an hour. Toast and coffee at the White Spot is $3.50 now. In 1971 I bought a brand new Toyota for less than $2000. I earned $8000 that year. Try today to buy a brand new Toyota with 1/4 of your gross income. Good luck. Everything is relative. Market parity.

.

Labor shortage... it couldn't possibly be the 1.5 million babies killed by abortion in Canada over the last couple of decades, or could it? If the government didn’t get them before they were born the government is likely get them through manufactured debt bubbles.

I would also blame the lack of affordable skills training in Canada. We went from a society of equal opportunity; to a society of the privileged and the government ‘lottery winners’ being the only ones able to ‘afford’ opportunity. To many people that could be trained are not because our government and employers either ignore their dignity; figure its a cost to be born by the employee; or are limiting educational opportunities to manipulate the working force for an anterior agenda.

We have a society controlled by cut throat corporate capitalists... most of which are foreign owned... that have an agenda to satisfy their hedge fund funny money owners who inflate assets with fractional dollar fake money... then they bust the bubble and make everyone their slaves through buy-outs and debt slavery. I call them banksters most of which are zionists. These types own part of Canfor, they own Alcan, and CN Rail, and all the other multinational's some of which used to be Canadian corporations.

The first thing we could do to fight back against those types IMO is to make labor and training recognized on the balance sheet of the books of small businesses and corporations alike to stop the geeks from discounting this aspect of the economy. This of course requires a government of the people that is willing to recognize this new reality in its tax code, which will never happen because the corporations would then have to write off a loss of assets on their balance sheet when they want to slash the wage earner for modernization and quick profits to satisfy the hedge fund banksters for the next quarters income statement numbers.


All in my humble opinion of course....

.

"Our shortage of labour is a direct result of people in North America having 1.5 children per family."

That is one opinion.

Let us start with something a bit closer to the fact with fertility rates.

Here are the countries below 2.0 per family. I see Canada at 1.6, not North America. North America has 24 countries and when you figure in the French Islands off Newfoundland we have 25.

If by North America you mean Canada and the USA, then the USA has a fertility rate of 2.0 and between the two of them, since the USA has a population 10 times that of Canada, the fertility rate is just below 2.0

By the time you factor Mexico into that with a fertility rate of 2.8, the fertility rate in that part of North America is in the 2.3 to 2.4 range.

Bulgaria 1.2
Italy 1.2
Romania 1.2
Spain 1.2
Bosnia 1.3
Estonia 1.3
Germany 1.3
Greece 1.3
Latvia 1.3
Slovenia 1.3
Austria 1.4
Belarus 1.4
Hungary 1.4
Japan 1.4
Lithuania 1.4
Portugal 1.4
Russia 1.4
Slovakia 1.4
Ukraine 1.4
Armenia 1.5
Barbados 1.5
Cuba 1.5
Netherlands 1.5
Poland 1.5
Switzerland 1.5
Belgium 1.6
Canada 1.6
Croatia 1.6
Sweden 1.6
Denmark 1.7
Finland 1.7
France 1.7
Korea (South) 1.7
Luxembourg 1.7
Singapore 1.7
Thailand 1.7
Trinidad 1.7
United Kingdom 1.7
Australia 1.8
China 1.8
Moldova 1.8
Yugoslavia 1.8
Georgia 1.9
Ireland 1.9
Malta 1.9
Mauritius 1.9
Norway 1.9

So, what would another opinion be about workforce shortage? Certainly my opinion does not support a population growth rate as being the panacea to economic growth. That has been a major part of the two countries that make up the northern part of mainland North America.

What many are not aware of is that much of Europe has “suffered” from lower fertility rates for some time. Look at the chart above. Not only that, but they also typically have a much lower participation rate. Canada has one of the highest workforce participation rates in the world. Canada’s workforce participation rate is about 67%; the USA is slightly lower; Belgium 55%; Germany 58%. The OECD average is just below 60%.

So what is the third factor going into the economic growth equation? Population + Participation + PRODUCTIVITY.

That is where I put the predominant blame. We are not as productive. The only way we have learned how to distribute the wealth we create is by getting people to work for part of their share of that wealth. We work more, not smarter. We work more hours per week and more weeks per year than most other OECD countries.

We take our wood, create kraft, and send it to some other country where they create fine paper goods. We take logs, cut them up into 2x4s and send them to other countries to build a value added product called a house. We buy machinery from those countries to manufacture those primary manufacturing products. In other words, we pay for tertiary manufactured products with primary manufactured products which are resource dominant. When resources go up in demand, as they are now, we do well. When others start to cut back and recycle and still continue to add value in recycling and in improving processes and in increasing PRODUCTIVITY as a result, we do poorly.

So, how do become more productive? Let’s start simple. Eat at home, not out other than for those special occasions. Save the money that is spent to go to get a Big Mac and the gasoline. Spend the time with the family cooking together. Reduce store opening hours. The convenience of being able to shop at 10 pm or Tuesdays in a huge box store is not worth the loss in productivity. Create urban designs so that mass transport works properly. 30 people to a bus not 3.

Talk about providing for the elite as some do here on many occasions We provide for the elite of late night shoppers by all of us paying more for our goods. Try a simple test – put a 5% surcharge at the till on goods bought after 7pm and another 5% after 9pm. Or work it the other way around. 100% pricing after 9pm; 95% prior to 9pm and 90% prior to 7pm. See what will happen.
I am sure we all have our pet peeves about excesses we provide for the convenience of a few.

http://www.pregnantpause.org/numbers/fertility.htm
http://www.pc.gov.au/research/swp/workforceparticipation/workforceparticipation.pdf

The multiple choice question on an exam of economics 101

The reason we do not have enough truck drivers in Canada is (check one only):

• Abortions
• hedge funds
• banksters
• Zionists
• Lack of affordable skills training

;-)

"You could work your way up the ladder and eventually get one of the top jobs"

Right. Every single worker was able to work their way up to the top. I am sorry, but I am having some trouble looking at that when it comes to the mathematics of it. I think you meant to say only those who were good, and especially those who kissed ass or married into family could do that.

So you think that has changed, eh? LOL

Guess what. These days every single worker is able to work themselves into their own consulting business.

Agreed owl, oh and I love the MC question . . . LOL :)

In my mandatory "consumer ed" class in '82, the teacher told us the boomers would retire and there would be worker shortages, and plenty of jobs for all.
Government and industry sat on their hands, instead of training and promoting trades. Now we are bringing in foreign skilled trades, while domestic training programs are in shambles.
The good part: I'm not worried about work and can make a great wage.
The bad part IMO:All these big raises and high wages will lead to big inflation down the road.

Owl. It must be nice to be tongue in cheek and quote information from other sources and pretend that you have a valid argument.

(1) Common sense would tell you that if we had 5 children per family then we would have more people available to work and would require less people to be imported from other Countries.

(2) Your statistics about other countries means nothing because they obviously have reduced their famlily sizes for 10 to 8 to 6 to 3 to 1.5 over the years, and they also are in the business of importing labour from all over the world. I notice your stats do not list any African, or South American Countries.

To compare productivity to population is an inane way to make a point. As an example you could have 500 farmers in Italy growing wheat and processing it, and they would not produce anymore wheat than 2 Huge Saskatchewan farms with 20 labourers. The same thing applies to the production of Potash, Coal, Sulphur, Lumber, etc; Very little labour involved but huge production.

If we couldnt send our lumber to other Countries to build houses, we would have to leave the trees in the forest. Lumber is used in housing because it is **CHEAP** It has little or no value for anything else. As you are fully aware most European Counries build houses out of brick and cement, and these house last for hundreds of years. Why would you want to build with lumber. **Cheap** thats why.

You could produce some finished products out of Woodpulp and send the paper products all over the world to the high population areas. (That is where the products are bought) however you would have to convince every other pulp producing country in the world to do the same, and of course your shipping costs would double or triple.

The reason we have a lack of skilled truck drivers in this Country is:

(1) The high cost of fuel and repairs.
(2) The high cost of Insurance
(3) The high cost of trucks.
(4) The lousy nature of the job and the dispicable working hours and conditions, especially for long haul truckers.
(5) The lack of respectable compensation for truck drivers.
(6) The stupid attitude of shippers and receivers that seem to think that truck drivers are second or third class Citizens.

Truck drivers a number of years ago started to leave their trucks and seek employment in other areas, mainly because they could no longer make a living by driving.

An owner operator has to buy the truck that could cost him as much as $150,000.00 or more. He must then insure it. He is responsible for all the repairs, tires, etc; He then goes to work for a trucking company who takes 25% more or less right off the top of every load he hauls. If he has to wait a day at either the origin or the destination to get unloaded he is rarely if ever compensated for lost time.

Thats for owner operators. Local drivers who drive for someone else usually drive to and from the pulp mills or sawmills. Usually all night or from 4am to 6 or 8 pm. Back and forth on the same road, day in and day out, dodging stupid, drivers all day long. They get paid an hourly rate, however not as much as you would think, and they work a lot of hours in winter conditions. I dont for one minute blame them for quitting driving, and I am sure if enough of them quit, something would be done to improve their working conditions.

Its easy for people to sit at their keyboards and make all sorts of high sounding phrases on how the world should, and could be run, however from time to time it doesnt hurt to get out into the mud, and see how it is done in actual fact.

The most underworked and over paid non-contributors to the overall economy of any Country are those on Government payrolls, or contracted to the Government, or who have some other way of accessing dollars of the true working people. The problem with this Country is that we have way to many non-productive people sucking the life blood out of the Country. They are akin to Lamprays who attach themselves to the body of the Sharks and suck out the blood of the Shark , which keeps the Lampray alive, however the life of the Lamray is contingent on the Shark working and providing sustenance every day. Kill the shark and the Lampray dies.

Whatever you say Palopu ....

"(1) Common sense would tell you that if we had 5 children per family then we would have more people available to work and would require less people to be imported from other Countries."

Actually common sdense would tell me that if we had that many we would be making a much bigger footprint on this world than we already are. As far as I am cocnerned we have an overpopulation problem on this earth. Why on earth would anyone want to make it worse when most countries are trying to correct that? And, interstingly enough, the countries that are more productive, and as a result get in more money per person, are the ones with the lower birthrate.

I do not know where you get your facts from. So, maybe you can show me that the tredn is actually the reverse. The higher the birthrate, the greater the income per person.

Come on Palopu .... go ahead ... I know you can do it if you try hard enough..... You are the king of spin ....

;-)

"I notice your stats do not list any African, or South American Countries."

Right, they are the countries with birthrates haigher then 2.0 and also generally the countries on the lower income scale.

Remember, you were saying that the probelm with North America was we wer not producing enough children. If we did, then we would have enough people for the work.

My argument is work smarter, work harder, cahnge your lifestyle a touch so that you create longer lasting goods and voila, productivity goes up and we do not need more workers and we too can take 6 week vacation.

I know, it is a foreign concept to some so it is rather difficult to grasp.

Read the book, "Boom, Bust and Echo".

Then, you will understand the nature of the labor shortage.

Also, I asked a friend of mine to answer the following question, and here is his answer.

Q: The reason we have a lack of skilled truck drivers in this Country is:

A: The job has deteriorated to the point that nobody wants to do it, and there are so many other things that you could be doing, for the same or more money.

"Its easy for people to sit at their keyboards and make all sorts of high sounding phrases on how the world should, and could be run, however from time to time it doesnt hurt to get out into the mud, and see how it is done in actual fact."

Exactly what I say. That is why I can say what I do because I have had enough experience doing manual labour. Few can BS me about how long it should take to do a task because of that.

As far as the truck drivers go, we know that we have a workforce that likes to take it easier by the day. Truckers are not the only ones. So, who is going to do the work others do not want to do? Is it any wonder we outsource work and we get professionals, such as doctors, from other countries coming in here and make them drive trucks, taxis, and work as janitors.

"the true working people"

So, the people who work with pick and shovel are the real workers, while those who plan and think things through to plan the work of the labourer are not "true working people"

Interestingly the peson who thinks things through and earns his/her money that way invented the backhoe and other heavy machinery so that pick and shovel and wheelbarrows are a rarety on a construction site these days. Instead, they can sit inside a cab listening to their iPod and get fatter by the day, the same as the office worker. Yet they continue to be seen as the "true working people" ..... LOL ... that point of view should set you back a half if not a full century .....

It seems to me that palopu spends a bit of time at the keyboard.......but let's not go there. Palopu has it running on all cylinders though (Oct. 13th post) All true. I myself am not a student of demographics or economics, could not stay awake in school when they started taliking that guff. I began to notice the decline in available skilled workers around year 2000, and that was just in B.C. I imagine the same thing was happening at the same time elewhere in Canada. When you do look at the demographics though, it really does open your eyes, I think it is true, one could have seen it coming a long time ago, which begs the question; why did'nt the guvernmint see it and......oh never mind, I was'nt serious.
metalman.

Death rate in Canada? One per person