Golf Course Development Too Risky Says BFW Development

Wednesday, October 24, 2007 04:01 AM

Prince George B.C. - John Turner the Land Development Manager for BFW Developments Ltd in Langley says his company did not want to hold up the Golf Course any longer and so they decided to pass on the purchase of the Prince George Golf and Curling Club property.

"We would be prepared to be a partner with a local group that wants to develop the site but as far as we are concerned we want to know exactly what we are going to get before we begin the project and we couldn’t be guaranteed that would happen." says Turner who added " If the local guys want us as a partner, Okay, but it is simply too risky on our own."

The problem says Turner is that BFW wanted to turn the property into a business park, no heavy industry but rather an area of small businesses. "We couldn’t convince the powers to be that was the best use of the property."

Turner says there was a great deal at stake "BFW didn’t want to get locked into a project, invest millions of dollars and then suddenly find that they have come up with a new rule book that you can’t do anything about. You could spend millions of dollars to find out that what you had originally intended the project to be and what they are now seeking is quite different. ’

It takes one year to get a project approved Turner says and a lot can happen, "The Council can change, special interest groups could come along and ask that 40 acres be put into parks, making the project not feasible, and then there is the matter of what the future holds for the region, and of course that was a concern to us."

Turner said City of Prince George staff helped but they are just one part of the project.

This is the second time the deal for the golf course has fallen flat. The first deal involved the Pomeroy Group. The PGGCC and Pomeroy ended up in court over that one. Now BFW Developments is backing down on a deal that was said to be worth $15 million dollars.

BFW is considered one of the leading land developers in the Langley area of BC.

A local group has expressed interest in acquiring the property and developing it. That move would allow the Golf course to move to property on the north west side of the city.

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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 04:01 AM in News by 250 News

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Comments

Posted by: dgdiggler on October 24 2007 5:32 AM

Turn it into a large residential area...it would look nice and there must be several developers in the lower mainland who have the dollars to make that happen.

Posted by: Chadermando on October 24 2007 5:52 AM

I think once the new Sandman Hotel is in place on HWY16 and the new business's across from Superstore are all open it will become apparent that the city should see this neighbourhood developed as a pedestrian friendly urban connector to Pine Centre. I would think it is suited for 5-star hotel developments, along with highrise residential, and street level shopping.

Building it into a Danson Industrial site extension would be the Prince George thing to do with prime realestate like that. Going all residential isn't much better of an idea IMO.

I think it has the potential to become everything the downtown can not. Mostly because its further away from the Husky refinery and pulp mills than the downtown, which is vitually in their shadow. One would hope this 140 acre area being well served by major arteries could easily become a focal point for urban renewal....

Time Will Tell

Posted by: owl on October 24 2007 6:13 AM

"then there is the matter of what the future holds for the region, and of course that was a concern to us."

I would think that was the kicker .... they did not assess that part sufficiently well at the time of the intial interest. The rest is all normal for any larger project in a region where growth in population is slow to nil and to even bring that out show me they are either using excuses or really are not to good at the business of developing larger, interface properties.

This property has tons of potential to develop into a multi-use integrated site. The main problem I see is that PG residents are not ready for such a development as takes place in the area in the southern part of Kelowna, for instance. The population growth rate in PG would also mean that the investment must be based on a long term commitment.

Posted by: YamaDooPolCat on October 24 2007 8:00 AM

One also has to note the kind words this experienced developer had for city hall.

They came, they saw, they ran away.

BFW also seems well informed about local developers and have obviously talked to those people. Naturally those meetings would be a good time to compare notes and compare PG to what BFW has experienced else where in local regulator regimes.

Clearly BFW interpreted what they heard in a way that said PG is a city not really looking for investment and too inward looking. If city hall is looking for flower gardens and utopia developments, aimed at the market that lives off government hand-outs, and intends to use private dollars, BFW said "good luck" and left.

There is lots of planning coming out of city hall, but it seems to be a big shock when outsiders show up and say something about what they see as happening in PG. Kind of like a reality check. PG is shooting for the stars and got shot in the foot.

That's my interpretation of what's happened with BFW. It'll be interesting to see what others see as the reasons why BFW left, based on their own personal experience building in PG.

Perhaps BFW should have said PG really needs an opera house, and then left. That would have made the fur fly! HeeHee!

Posted by: spanky on October 24 2007 11:12 AM

Has anyone done any research on BFW? In 20 seconds I found out that they do not even operate a website. Their company directory lists about 5 employees including the secretary. I bet they never had the 15 million just like the Pomeroy group. Land speculators is all they are. Thay wanted it zoned with a dime down(same as Pomeroy group) so that the land could be flipped for a profit. Without the zoning in place, it cannot be flipped for profit. The PGGCC needs to do their homework before they accept offers from these types of companies.

Posted by: NMG on October 24 2007 11:42 AM

"I think once the new Sandman Hotel is in place on HWY16 and the new business's across from Superstore are all open it will become apparent that the city should see this neighbourhood developed as a pedestrian friendly urban connector to Pine Centre"

"I think it has the potential to become everything the downtown can not"

"One would hope this 140 acre area being well served by major arteries could easily become a focal point for urban renewal"

I agree 200% Chadermando. This "could" turn into a development that changes the face of PG. With all of the retail space available in the area, it could easily be a self-contained neighbourhood for people that don't want to rely on their cars to take them everywhere. With the layout of the property, you could have apartments, townhouses, luxury homes, all sizes of commercial development, plenty of green-space, recreational opportunities (outdoor ice rinks, trail networks for walking/biking, etc.), all nestled into one relatively compact area. There would be nothing like it in the City and I think it would be a highly attractive area for people to live.

Man alive, where is the vision within PG?

Posted by: owl on October 24 2007 12:31 PM

"experienced else where in local regulator regimes."

Believe me, PG has less regulations than Kelowna, Kamloops, or anyplace in the GVRD. I really do not understand why people say this. Those who do may have experience in small town Interior, but not in larger urban centres to the south of us and the Island.

Good quality developments are rare around here. The reason why people think they have probelms here is because they are not willing to put in the effort in quality that is done in other places. Put in good qulity in the first place, everyone will welcome you with open arms. Don't do it, and you will encounter resistance. I, for one, wish they would counter more resistance here. Look at the chit that is going up on 5th and Tabor!!!! Terrible!!!!!! The slum housing of the 2020's.

Posted by: owl on October 24 2007 12:36 PM

I agree with Chadermando and NMG on waht could be at the golf course. It is what is being done in other cities. In Calgary those developments are all built around storm water settling ponds the same as Chicago suburbs were started around 25 years ago.

We have one at the entrance to College Heigths. Looks like a garbage dump, with a garbage sign some 30 years old that no one seems to be interested in replacing. Half the trees around that area have been dead for over a year and are not being replaced.

Maintenance in this Ciy is attrocious and most seem to be oblivious to it. We live in a pig sty.

Posted by: Harbinger on October 24 2007 5:59 PM

Sure hope they build some houses fer the poor people.

Posted by: Palopu on October 24 2007 8:25 PM

As usual there is more to this Golf Course issue than meets the eye.

(1) BFW Developments are a big player in the Langley area, and they have lots of money.

(2) BFW is involved in the University Heights development, and therefore is not going away. This could explain why they treated the City Planners so nice.

(3) I understand that BFW Partnered with Pomeroy on the Golf Course project to get around his legally holding up the project.

(4) We now have a situation where the local boys are going to buy the Golf Course property and develop it. BFW states that they would partner with the locals if they wanted them.

(5) The local boys will probably be able to work more closely with City staff. (They do it all the time)

(6) The plans for the new golf course can go ahead as planned with the support of the local boys and the City.

(7) Are the local investors in the old golf course property the same investors who plan to develop the property into the new golf course.

(8) The City would not issue a 5 year contract for running the Par 3 Golf Course. Why? Do they plan to close this course, and relocate it to the New Golf Course. This would give them more property to sell to developers.

(9) Why is there no mention of the Curling Club in all of this? Rumour has it that the City plans to take over the old Golf Course building and will run the Curling Club and eventually relocate the ice to the Kin Center area. The Prince George Golf course cannot relocate without the consent of the curlers, and that is the problem at the moment. If they were to buy out the curlers they would not have enough money to build the new course.

(10) Who are the local boys who are going to develop the old golf course?

(11) Whats really going on here, is this something like the Ice Oval thing where deals are being cooked behind closed doors.

(12) The Prince George Golf is a Semi Private, Public Course, and the public should be made aware as to whats taking place there.

Posted by: Harbinger on October 24 2007 8:37 PM

I will have you know that there is a swell park bench beside that settling pond at the top of Peden Hill. I see it every time I drive by in the right lane. It sure adds class amongst the weeds in that depression beside the highway.

Posted by: slider71 on October 25 2007 8:49 PM

Typical of all the sides of the highways in this town...weeds, dirt and garbage.